Felt strong but not fast

[20thfret]

My goal this year is to enter ride 40K TT. in < 1 hr.

My current info: Male 38 Current FT: ~270 W/H: 71.2 /174cm.

I have experienced stange issue with my training. I have been doing 3x15 min at 265-285watt.

If I do that at high resistent level (torque about 145 Cad~85) and raised my front wheel up in climbing position, I felt great at the end of the interval. However, if I do that in the drop in normal road riding position with resistent level at (torque 65avg/ Cad ~ 95-100 ), I felt really worked up and strugglign hold my target power level.

I thought power is power . What could account for this strange result? I am very concern since my target this year is 40K TT.

Additional note, these work out are done on trainer. For outdoor work, my normal weekend 2-3 hr ride will be at ~ 250 NP.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[bigbevans]

My goal this year is to enter ride 40K TT. in < 1 hr.

My current info: Male 38 Current FT: ~270 W/H: 71.2 /174cm.

I have experienced stange issue with my training. I have been doing 3x15 min at 265-285watt.

If I do that at high resistent level (torque about 145 Cad~85) and raised my front wheel up in climbing position, I felt great at the end of the interval. However, if I do that in the drop in normal road riding position with resistent level at (torque 65avg/ Cad ~ 95-100 ), I felt really worked up and strugglign hold my target power level.

I thought power is power . What could account for this strange result? I am very concern since my target this year is 40K TT.

Additional note, these work out are done on trainer. For outdoor work, my normal weekend 2-3 hr ride will be at ~ 250 NP.

Thanks for your comments.

What are you using to measure the power?

 

[20thfret]

My power meter is PT pro. I usually go through zero torque routine before every training session. My software is Peaks.

My TSS has been about avg about 550-650 per week.

 

[frenchyge]

If I do that at high resistent level (torque about 145 Cad~85) and raised my front wheel up in climbing position, I felt great at the end of the interval. However, if I do that in the drop in normal road riding position with resistent level at (torque 65avg/ Cad ~ 95-100 ), I felt really worked up and strugglign hold my target power level.

HR and breathing rate are related to cadence, so it's possible to feel more "worked up" at a higher cadence, even though power is the same. It's also possible that you just need some time to adapt to the lower riding position. Have you tried putting your TT bike on the trainer? Maybe the TT position will let your hips rotate forward further than riding the road bike on the drops.

 

[acoggan]

My goal this year is to enter ride 40K TT. in < 1 hr.

My current info: Male 38 Current FT: ~270 W/H: 71.2 /174cm.

I have experienced stange issue with my training. I have been doing 3x15 min at 265-285watt.

If I do that at high resistent level (torque about 145 Cad~85) and raised my front wheel up in climbing position, I felt great at the end of the interval. However, if I do that in the drop in normal road riding position with resistent level at (torque 65avg/ Cad ~ 95-100 ), I felt really worked up and strugglign hold my target power level.

I thought power is power . What could account for this strange result? I am very concern since my target this year is 40K TT.

Additional note, these work out are done on trainer. For outdoor work, my normal weekend 2-3 hr ride will be at ~ 250 NP.

Thanks for your comments.

Torque as reported by the PowerTap doesn't really mean anything here, as it measured at the hub and hence depends on the gearing. That is, to produce the same power at 85 rpm instead of 95-100 rpm requires only 12-18% increase in torque applied to the crank, not the 2+ fold difference that you've stated above.

In any case, while power is indeed power, how we go about producing that power can certainly influence our physiological responses. Unfortunately, it's tough to say much based on the data that you've provided, other than the fact you seem to find it easier to produce power when sitting up (I assume that you grab the tops of the bars when you elevate the front wheel...why do you bother doing that, anyway?) and pedaling more slowly. You'll need to either 1) do efforts at 95-100 rpm in your simulated climbing configuration and/or 2) do efforts at 85 rpm in the drop bar position to determine whether it is the cadence or the position that is the issue.

 

[20thfret]

As a matter of fact, I performed this work on my TT bike out this past Tuesday. Based on observation, I have more trouble keeping it up on my TT bike than on mine road bike in the drop position.

My goal this month is to ride my TT bike more. I usually have it on my trainer once very 2 weeks.

--

HR and breathing rate are related to cadence, so it's possible to feel more "worked up" at a higher cadence, even though power is the same. It's also possible that you just need some time to adapt to the lower riding position. Have you tried putting your TT bike on the trainer? Maybe the TT position will let your hips rotate forward further than riding the road bike on the drops.

 

[20thfret]

Aha...I have to compare apple with apple. I will do as you recomended to see if I can isolate the problem.

About simulated climb position, why is that a bad idea? Please explain.

Thanks,

Torque as reported by the PowerTap doesn't really mean anything here, as it measured at the hub and hence depends on the gearing. That is, to produce the same power at 85 rpm instead of 95-100 rpm requires only 12-18% increase in torque applied to the crank, not the 2+ fold difference that you've stated above.

In any case, while power is indeed power, how we go about producing that power can certainly influence our physiological responses. Unfortunately, it's tough to say much based on the data that you've provided, other than the fact you seem to find it easier to produce power when sitting up (I assume that you grab the tops of the bars when you elevate the front wheel...why do you bother doing that, anyway?) and pedaling more slowly. You'll need to either 1) do efforts at 95-100 rpm in your simulated climbing configuration and/or 2) do efforts at 85 rpm in the drop bar position to determine whether it is the cadence or the position that is the issue.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

As a matter of fact, I performed this work on my TT bike out this past Tuesday. Based on observation, I have more trouble keeping it up on my TT bike than on mine road bike in the drop position.

My goal this month is to ride my TT bike more. I usually have it on my trainer once very 2 weeks.

--

I'd recommed riding your TT bike, at least 90-mins each week, all year round, to help keep adapted to the position

ric

 

[acoggan]

About simulated climb position, why is that a bad idea? Please explain.

I don't know if it is a bad idea per se, but I'm also unconvinced that it really does anything for you. I say that because there are two physics-related differences between riding on level ground vs. riding up a hill: when climbing, 1) the inertial load is much lower, and 2) the gravitational force vector is oriented differently relative to the bike and where you sit on it. The former effect is much greater, but isn't addressed by putting your front wheel up on a block. The latter effect, OTOH, is addressed by this approach, but it really isn't all that significant in the first place.

 

[frenchyge]

I don't know if it is a bad idea per se, but I'm also unconvinced that it really does anything for you. I say that because there are two physics-related differences between riding on level ground vs. riding up a hill:

What about specificity with regards to body position (ie, joint and muscle angles)? Or are you just referring to elevating the wheel, and not placing hands on the bar tops?

 

[acoggan]

What about specificity with regards to body position (ie, joint and muscle angles)? Or are you just referring to elevating the wheel, and not placing hands on the bar tops?

I am referring to just elevating the front wheel (which in itself may encourage you to adopt a position on the bike more akin to climbing, but that's sort of a different question since you don't have to elevate the front wheel to do so).

EDIT: BTW, I always do my hard efforts on the trainer in the drop bar position, for the very reason you mention (i.e., specificity of joint angles). Moreover, if I am focussed on a TT event I'll go one step further by putting the TT bike on the trainer and do them in the aero position as well.

 

[Pureshot78]

I am referring to just elevating the front wheel (which in itself may encourage you to adopt a position on the bike more akin to climbing, but that's sort of a different question since you don't have to elevate the front wheel to do so).

EDIT: BTW, I always do my hard efforts on the trainer in the drop bar position, for the very reason you mention (i.e., specificity of joint angles). Moreover, if I am focussed on a TT event I'll go one step further by putting the TT bike on the trainer and do them in the aero position as well.

Andy,

All this time I thought you were a skinny TT specialist

http://recsports.tamu.edu/weights/andy.html