FEMA's wonderful job



"Your argument makes no sense. "May" be used does not mean "must" be
used. "

I guess the evacuation authors should have used pictures so that guys
like you and Mayor Nagin would be able to understand it. For days
we've heard how the poor, the black were left behind because they
didn't have transportation. But you're right. The plan only says
school buses CAN be used. It didn't say MUST be used. So Mayor Nagin
gets another pass, while he whines and *****es about what everyone else
did or didn't do. LOL
 
Josh Hill wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2005 19:10:16 -0700, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Those buses were, as you point out, almost covered with water, and so
> >wouldn't have been particularly useful even if 100 buses had been
> >sufficient -- which, at 75 people per schoolbus, was not the case. "
> >
> >Gee you liberals are dumb. The idea was to get the poor on the school
> >buses and give them rides out before the storm. You know, like Sat and
> >all day Sunday?
>
> Yeah, right, load 50,000-100,000 poor people on 100 schoolbuses.
>
> Next . . .

Who says they had to make only one trip... there was about a weeks
notice... a hundred busses coulda moved 100,000 people to safe ground
in two-three days easy, and there were a heck of a lot more than 100
busses in that city... and I darn well saw an awful lot of media shots
with railroad tracks, coulda moved em all out in less than 12 hours
before those tracks went under water... AND by rail it would have been
pretty simple for folks to load all their goods too, most would've lost
nothing. There was no PLAN, the friggin' INCOMPETANT **** of a
governor should be executed. Of course the real reason for all the
aftermath chaos couldn't be simpler, the pinheads *refused* to leave...
but the powers that be coulda forced them... *shoulda* comes a day late
and billion$ too short.

Bush did nothing wrong, NOTHING WRONG, wasn't the feds responsibility
to move people out, only to help reconstruct *afterwards*, and there
Bush is doing a great job, as great as any Prez could. The people who
were inconvenienced have no one to blame but themselves... and trust
me, they were only inconvenienced... I would have bet a whole lot more
would have died. To hear folks ***** you'd think those folks expected
to be put up in the Waldorf penthouse. A lot of them weren't any worse
off in those public shelters than they lived in their shantys (you
think where they lived didn't stink), a lot were better off, especially
the kids, for many it was the first time they were ever examined by a
doctor.

I blame only the local officials of all those affected areas for not
having the sense of of an amoeba, here they were WARNED, they KNEW a
CLASS FIVE hurricane was bearing down, getting it's target lined up
just so, and all the while those brain dead officials just sat on their
fat butts staring at the wall, day after day, hour by hour, right to
the last minute and second, they did nothing, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING ! ! ! I think those scum need to be tried for crimes against
hunanity, if not for their exceptionally low IQs they'd be truly no
less guilty than Saddom. I suppose they can plead insanity, in fact if
you listen to the media that's precisely what those retards are
scrambling desparately to do. Those NOLA officials are definitely
guilty of far more horrendous crimes than any of those looters.

Sheldon
 
Bob (this one) wrote: (Follow-ups restricted to r.f.c)

> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html
<snip>

Bob, thanks for posting this.

> "My son looks at me and mumbles "Welcome to Krakow."

I was thinking more of Guantanamo...

They "can't leave"? When did we decide to put disaster survivors in
internment camps? When did surviving a natural disaster mean that you
became a threat to national security?

Our government has gone completely insane. Orwell was 21 years early,
wasn't he?

Lisa Ann
 
"Jason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Those buses were, as you point out, almost covered with water, and so
>> wouldn't have been particularly useful even if 100 buses had been
>> sufficient -- which, at 75 people per schoolbus, was not the case. "
>>
>> Gee you liberals are dumb. The idea was to get the poor on the school
>> buses and give them rides out before the storm. You know, like Sat and
>> all day Sunday?
>
> Thanks for your post. I was going to say the same thing. It's hard for me
> to believe the person actually wrote that the busses were could not be
> used since they were almost covered with water. It was obvious from my
> post that I clearly meant that those busses could have been used to
> evacuate people BEFORE THE HURRICANE CAME ON SHORE.
> It's obvious to everyone except for liberals playing the blame game that
> those busses would never have been almost covered with water if they had
> been used by local officials to evacuate people.
>

Why do you believe people would have gotten on those buses to evacuate when
they would not get on buses to go to the superdome?

The WSJ estimated that that 12,000 people at a time could be taken by the
fleet. Given the backups on I10 how long would this have taken?

Where would the people qualified to drive these buses have come from?

Bill

> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>
 
"Jason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Bill"
> <***@yy.zz> wrote:
>
>> "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:49:17 GMT, [email protected] (Kurt Ullman)
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article <[email protected]>, "Bill"
>> >> ><***@yy.zz> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>In this case, I don't see anything specific the mayor could have done
>> >> >>differently.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> '
>> >> > Let the Feds take over earlier. I also don't see anything that
>> >> >the Feds could have done different, until about the second day after
>> >> >the flooding. THEn they shoulda just come in, pushed the locals out
>> >> >of the way and did what was needed to be done.
>> >>
>> >> The locals spent several days begging for buses, food, water, troops .
>> >> . . and FEMA didn't send them, just kept making promises.
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > One picture that you will not see in any liberal news magazine such as
>> > NewsWeek and Time is a picture of about 100 or more school busses that
>> > are
>> > almost covered with water. Those busses could easily have used to
>> > evacuate
>> > people but they were NOT used to evactuate anyone. I've seen the picture
>> > of the busses. The mayor of the city or governor could easily have
>> > ordered
>> > all school busses in the state to be used to evacuate people several days
>> > before the hurricane came on shore. Please don't try to blame FEMA or
>> > Bush
>> > for failing to use all of the school busses to evacuate people. FEMA and
>> > Bush don't control school busses.
>> > Jason
>> >
>>
>> The Mayor provided free Buses to anyone who wanted to go to the Superdome
>> pre-flood. 20,000 went. The rest left by other means or decided to stay at
>> home.
>>
>> What makes you believe that those people who did not take advantage of the
>> free buses to the Superdome would have gotten on a bus to some unknown
>> place?
>>
>> Bill
>
> Bill,
> I merely made the point about making use of all of the busses in the state
> to evacuate people since liberals playing the blame game are now blaming
> FEMA
> for failing to evacuate people several days before the hurricane came on
> shore. I agree that lots of those people would not have gotten on the
> busses. The governor of the state is now trying to blame FEMA for failing
> to evacuate people. The truth is that she is the one that is really to
> blame since she did not even attempt to use those busses in the picture
> that were almost covered with water to evacuate people.
> Jason
>

The plan was to evacuate everyone who could not get out on there own to the
superdome. That apparently worked - in the sense that everyone who wanted to
get there got there.

There is no evidence that additional buses that would have taken people to
parts unknonwn pre-flood would have done any good. Many people just did not
want to leave or did not think it would be too bad. They had pets, they feard
looters, they had ridden it out before, they had jobs, etc.

Bill

> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:07:37 -0400, "Bill DeWitt"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] mentioned in passing :
> >>
> >> Bill, these whackos don't want to hear reality.
> >
> > I know, I've been watching you try and I keep wanting to say "Don't
> >bother, they have an agenda that prevents the truth from being true to
> >them".
> >
> > But then I realize that other people are reading these threads, and that
> >if someone sane doesn't counter the insanity, the definition of "sane"
> >shifts towards the insane.
> >
> > People begin to think that FEMA really -should- have let thousands of
> >air boats from Florida swoop in and start crashing into each other with no
> >plan. They start to think that rescue helicopters, which are tuned to carry
> >specific loads for rescue only, -should- have been loaded down with water
> >bottles. They begin to imagine that Bush had a plan to -cause- the flood so
> >that black people would die.
>
> Get real. You're making up crazy notions and then attacking them.
>
> What people do believe is that people shouldn't have been left in the
> muck without buses, food, water, and troops.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have slashed the budget
> for FEMA.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have slashed the budget
> for shoring up the levees.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have staffed FEMA with
> politically-connected hacks who had no experience.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have been strumming his
> guitar while people were drowning.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have been so confused
> that he was praising the director of FEMA long after everyone knew
> that he was incompetent.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have let
> small-government ideology get in the way of reality.
>
> What people do believe is that Bush should have cut through the
> bureaucracy.
>
> And people aren't going to forgive President Bush for having done or,
> as the case may be, not having done those things and so many others.
> As a President who was fond of taking responsibility rather than
> ducking and blaming used to say, "the buck stops here."

Josh,
I have a question for you:
Does is make more sense for the governor to use 1000 school busses in the
state to evacuate the people that wanted to be evacuated OR
for FEMA to bring 1000 busses from the Washington school system to
evacuate the people that wanted to be evacuated?
It's really not a hard question.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
 
"Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Josh Hill wrote:
>> On 10 Sep 2005 19:10:16 -0700, "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >"Those buses were, as you point out, almost covered with water, and so
>> >wouldn't have been particularly useful even if 100 buses had been
>> >sufficient -- which, at 75 people per schoolbus, was not the case. "
>> >
>> >Gee you liberals are dumb. The idea was to get the poor on the school
>> >buses and give them rides out before the storm. You know, like Sat and
>> >all day Sunday?
>>
>> Yeah, right, load 50,000-100,000 poor people on 100 schoolbuses.
>>
>> Next . . .
>
> Who says they had to make only one trip... there was about a weeks
> notice... a hundred busses coulda moved 100,000 people to safe ground
> in two-three days easy, and there were a heck of a lot more than 100
> busses in that city... and I darn well saw an awful lot of media shots
> with railroad tracks, coulda moved em all out in less than 12 hours
> before those tracks went under water... AND by rail it would have been
> pretty simple for folks to load all their goods too, most would've lost
> nothing. There was no PLAN, the friggin' INCOMPETANT **** of a
> governor should be executed. Of course the real reason for all the
> aftermath chaos couldn't be simpler, the pinheads *refused* to leave...
> but the powers that be coulda forced them... *shoulda* comes a day late
> and billion$ too short.
>
> Bush did nothing wrong, NOTHING WRONG, wasn't the feds responsibility
> to move people out, only to help reconstruct *afterwards*, and there
> Bush is doing a great job, as great as any Prez could. The people who
> were inconvenienced have no one to blame but themselves... and trust
> me, they were only inconvenienced... I would have bet a whole lot more
> would have died. To hear folks ***** you'd think those folks expected
> to be put up in the Waldorf penthouse. A lot of them weren't any worse
> off in those public shelters than they lived in their shantys (you
> think where they lived didn't stink), a lot were better off, especially
> the kids, for many it was the first time they were ever examined by a
> doctor.
>
> I blame only the local officials of all those affected areas for not
> having the sense of of an amoeba, here they were WARNED, they KNEW a
> CLASS FIVE hurricane was bearing down, getting it's target lined up
> just so, and all the while those brain dead officials just sat on their
> fat butts staring at the wall, day after day, hour by hour, right to
> the last minute and second, they did nothing, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY
> NOTHING ! ! ! I think those scum need to be tried for crimes against
> hunanity, if not for their exceptionally low IQs they'd be truly no
> less guilty than Saddom. I suppose they can plead insanity, in fact if
> you listen to the media that's precisely what those retards are
> scrambling desparately to do. Those NOLA officials are definitely
> guilty of far more horrendous crimes than any of those looters.
>
> Sheldon
>

There seems to be a belief that transportation out was a major reason people
did not leave in the days before the storm. Well several days before the storm
normal public transportation was working. In the day before the storm
transportation was provided free to the Superdome to anyone who wanted it.

Some people just did not want to go.

What is the basis for your belief that if more buses had been provided to take
people to parts unknown a substantial number of people would have taken
advantage of them?

Bill
 
"What is the basis for your belief that if more buses had been provided
to take
people to parts unknown a substantial number of people would have taken

advantage of them? "

In the days immediately following the hurricane accusations were made
all over the mainstream media that no one cared about the people that
were so poor they couldn't leave because they had no cars and couldn't
even afford a local bus. I saw numerous interviews on TV where people
even said it was also at the worst time of the month, just before
welfare and social security checks came out. They had no money for
transportation, they could not leave. Jesse Jackson showed up to play
the race card, claiming people were ignored because they were black.
And just about all these people went on to rant about the slow
response, pointing the finger directly at FEMA.

So, it doesn't seem unreasonable to for some of us to point out that if
the poor didn't have transportation, that was a local failure before
the storm, not FEMA. And if it's true that people didn't leave for
lack of transportation, then it's pretty clear that lives would have
been saved and there would have been a lot less chaos, had New Oreleans
and LA followed their own evacuation plan, which said buses COULD be
used. I know I have to be careful here and say COULD, instead of
SHOULD, even though any moron would know to use them. It was pretty
hard to listen to this BS for days, while at the same time pictures of
the flooded school buses were available on the internet. Funny how the
mainstream media never bothered to run those photos or that story,
isn't it?
 
I am losing patience with all of you people. *****, gripe, carp, complain,
bicker, snarl, snifff and snort.

My president (and yours, too, fellow American patriots) said, "You're doing
a heck of a job, Brownie."

He knows. He gets the information we do not see. He can look into Putin's
eyes and know he can trust him. He can solve problems because he is a
problem solver.

Now stop it! Not another word. FEMA was doing heck of a job until you
jumped on Brownie.

Leon
 
Bill mentioned in passing :
>
> Many
> people just did not want to leave

Then those people made their choice and anything that happens is their
consequence.
 
Bill mentioned in passing :
>
> There seems to be a belief that transportation out was a major reason
> people did not leave in the days before the storm.

Because that's what the Anti-Bush crowd were all crying about until it
turned out that there was a plan and there were busses and that people still
were not evacuated... now it's all changed to "they didn't -want- to
leave"...

Moving target. Sign of a ******.
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Bill"
<***@yy.zz> wrote:
>

>Where would the people qualified to drive these buses have come from?
>
All good questions that the state and county shoulda answered
YEARS ago.

--
The difference between being diplomatic and undiplomatic is the
difference between saying "When I look at you time stands still"
and "Your face could stop a clock." ~~ Anon.
 
Leon wrote:

> I am losing patience with all of you people. *****, gripe, carp, complain,
> bicker, snarl, snifff and snort.
>
> My president (and yours, too, fellow American patriots) said, "You're doing
> a heck of a job, Brownie."
>

Yep. I saw the news clip where, despite all the complaints about the lack of
response to the disaster, Bush told his former campaign worker with no
experience in disaster relief work, that was doing a heck of a job. Then he
turned around and pulled him out of that position.
 
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am losing patience with all of you people. *****, gripe, carp, complain,
>bicker, snarl, snifff and snort.
>

Yes, shame on us, how un-American to criticize the government. We should all
be out practicing our goose-step.

> My president (and yours, too, fellow American patriots) said, "You're
> doing a heck of a job, Brownie."

We can expect that Bush knows as much about the relief efforts as he did
about WMD, Iraq's connections with terrorists, how to run a war, how to
protect the environment, etc etc. In other words, almost nothing.

> He knows. He gets the information we do not see.

He regularly ignores information that does not agree with the way he wants
things to be.

> He can solve problems because he is a problem solver.

You didn;t really say that, did you?

> Now stop it! Not another word. FEMA was doing heck of a job until you
> jumped on Brownie.

Brownie did not know there were people trapped in the convention center even
after it had been all over the news for more than a day. He is an absolutely
incompetent **** who got this important position through the political
cronyism that is rampant in this administration.


Quote from Bush when he flew over New Orleans in Air Force 1 shortly after
the disaster (I wonder how many rescue planes and choppers had to be
diverted so Shrubby could have a peek?):

"It looks real bad. It's probably twice as bad on the ground."

This numbnut leads the free world?

--
Peter Aitken
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I am losing patience with all of you people. *****, gripe, carp, complain,
> >bicker, snarl, snifff and snort.
> >
>
> Yes, shame on us, how un-American to criticize the government. We should all
> be out practicing our goose-step.
>
> > My president (and yours, too, fellow American patriots) said, "You're
> > doing a heck of a job, Brownie."
>
> We can expect that Bush knows as much about the relief efforts as he did
> about WMD, Iraq's connections with terrorists, how to run a war, how to
> protect the environment, etc etc. In other words, almost nothing.
>
> > He knows. He gets the information we do not see.
>
> He regularly ignores information that does not agree with the way he wants
> things to be.
>
> > He can solve problems because he is a problem solver.
>
> You didn;t really say that, did you?
>
> > Now stop it! Not another word. FEMA was doing heck of a job until you
> > jumped on Brownie.
>
> Brownie did not know there were people trapped in the convention center even
> after it had been all over the news for more than a day. He is an absolutely
> incompetent **** who got this important position through the political
> cronyism that is rampant in this administration.
>
>
> Quote from Bush when he flew over New Orleans in Air Force 1 shortly after
> the disaster (I wonder how many rescue planes and choppers had to be
> diverted so Shrubby could have a peek?):
>
> "It looks real bad. It's probably twice as bad on the ground."
>
> This numbnut leads the free world?

Stubbed my toe when I went to cast my vote.

Seemed no question day and night
Seemed others disagreed .
Seemed it is becoming obvious in time.


Wonder if we deserve more pain.
Wonder if anyone cares?

Still folks help others
Still folks hurt others

What to do?
Something in hand sight do it. Not an option.
Something out of hand sight show compassion.

Stupid Bill

--
Garden Shade Zone 5 S Jersey USA in a Japanese Jungle Manner.39.6376 -75.0208
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.
Moose I'm trying to understand why Kamikaze pilots wear helments?
 
"Bill DeWitt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bill mentioned in passing :
>>
>> Many
>> people just did not want to leave
>
> Then those people made their choice and anything that happens is their
> consequence.
>
>

It's shared. If the response did not happen as quickly as it should have, it
is also a problem.
Bill
 
"Jason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:07:37 -0400, "Bill DeWitt"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] mentioned in passing :
>> >>
>> >> Bill, these whackos don't want to hear reality.
>> >
>> > I know, I've been watching you try and I keep wanting to say "Don't
>> >bother, they have an agenda that prevents the truth from being true to
>> >them".
>> >
>> > But then I realize that other people are reading these threads, and
>> > that
>> >if someone sane doesn't counter the insanity, the definition of "sane"
>> >shifts towards the insane.
>> >
>> > People begin to think that FEMA really -should- have let thousands of
>> >air boats from Florida swoop in and start crashing into each other with no
>> >plan. They start to think that rescue helicopters, which are tuned to
>> >carry
>> >specific loads for rescue only, -should- have been loaded down with water
>> >bottles. They begin to imagine that Bush had a plan to -cause- the flood
>> >so
>> >that black people would die.
>>
>> Get real. You're making up crazy notions and then attacking them.
>>
>> What people do believe is that people shouldn't have been left in the
>> muck without buses, food, water, and troops.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have slashed the budget
>> for FEMA.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have slashed the budget
>> for shoring up the levees.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have staffed FEMA with
>> politically-connected hacks who had no experience.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have been strumming his
>> guitar while people were drowning.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have been so confused
>> that he was praising the director of FEMA long after everyone knew
>> that he was incompetent.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush shouldn't have let
>> small-government ideology get in the way of reality.
>>
>> What people do believe is that Bush should have cut through the
>> bureaucracy.
>>
>> And people aren't going to forgive President Bush for having done or,
>> as the case may be, not having done those things and so many others.
>> As a President who was fond of taking responsibility rather than
>> ducking and blaming used to say, "the buck stops here."
>
> Josh,
> I have a question for you:
> Does is make more sense for the governor to use 1000 school busses in the
> state to evacuate the people that wanted to be evacuated OR
> for FEMA to bring 1000 busses from the Washington school system to
> evacuate the people that wanted to be evacuated?
> It's really not a hard question.
> Jason
>

The people who wanted to be evacuated were bused to the Superdome.

Bill

> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "What is the basis for your belief that if more buses had been provided
> to take
> people to parts unknown a substantial number of people would have taken
>
> advantage of them? "
>
> In the days immediately following the hurricane accusations were made
> all over the mainstream media that no one cared about the people that
> were so poor they couldn't leave because they had no cars and couldn't
> even afford a local bus. I saw numerous interviews on TV where people
> even said it was also at the worst time of the month, just before
> welfare and social security checks came out. They had no money for
> transportation, they could not leave. Jesse Jackson showed up to play
> the race card, claiming people were ignored because they were black.
> And just about all these people went on to rant about the slow
> response, pointing the finger directly at FEMA.
>
> So, it doesn't seem unreasonable to for some of us to point out that if
> the poor didn't have transportation, that was a local failure before
> the storm, not FEMA. And if it's true that people didn't leave for
> lack of transportation, then it's pretty clear that lives would have
> been saved and there would have been a lot less chaos, had New Oreleans
> and LA followed their own evacuation plan, which said buses COULD be
> used. I know I have to be careful here and say COULD, instead of
> SHOULD, even though any moron would know to use them. It was pretty
> hard to listen to this BS for days, while at the same time pictures of
> the flooded school buses were available on the internet. Funny how the
> mainstream media never bothered to run those photos or that story,
> isn't it?
>

You still have not answered the question. Why do you believe people who did
not get on buses to go to the Superdome would have gotten on buses to go to
another part of the state?

Bil
 
"Kurt Ullman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Bill"
> <***@yy.zz> wrote:
>>
>
>>Where would the people qualified to drive these buses have come from?
>>
> All good questions that the state and county shoulda answered
> YEARS ago.
>

You missed this part:

"Why do you believe people would have gotten on those buses to evacuate when
they would not get on buses to go to the superdome?"

There are some people who just do not want to leave - particularly if they do
not have an easy way back in case nothing happens.

Bill



> --
> The difference between being diplomatic and undiplomatic is the
> difference between saying "When I look at you time stands still"
> and "Your face could stop a clock." ~~ Anon.
 
"Bill DeWitt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bill mentioned in passing :
> >
> > Many
> > people just did not want to leave
>
> Then those people made their choice and anything that happens is their
> consequence.
>
That isn't the way we treat people in our country. Even when or if they
make a bad choice, we STILL go in and rescue them.

Marg
 
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