Festering motorised scrotes...

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Dirtylitterboxo, Dec 7, 2003.

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  1. Not that I'm in a foul mood, you understand..

    Went out on the bike earlier. Gloriously sunny December day. All was well until two festering
    motorised scrotes decided to be useless tw*ts. Like I said, not that I'm in a foul mood at all.

    First one. I'm in a short queue of traffic waiting to turn left at a T-junction. Being a considerate
    sort of cyclist I had left arm stuck out to indicate I'm turning left. I get to head of queue - it's
    safe to pull out, so I did so. Only to be cut up by the car which *was* behind me in the queue, who
    thought - cyclist = slow or cyclist = not there or cyclist = irrelevancy or combination of all
    three. This female festering motorised scrote *tried* to overtake me, but as there was a car 5 feet
    in front of me, there was no room for her to overtake, so she drove *at me* and forced me into the
    gutter. As her passenger side front window was open, I *politely* (how I managed it I'll never know,
    I felt like telling her to well... unprintable) asked her if she often cut people up like that and
    suggested that if I was in a car she wouldn't have even attempted that manouvre and perhaps she
    might like to read up on the Highway Code.

    Less than ten minutes later, at a different T-junction, I'm at the head of the junction, waiting to
    turn left (signalling again) and waiting for the traffic to pass on the road I'm going to turn into.
    As it becomes safe to make the turn, another (this time a male festering motorised scrote) comes up
    from behing me to be along side me and again - turns *into* me so the front nearside corner of his
    car is a couple of inches from my right leg. I shout "Oi!!" loudly at him and lo and behold, the
    motorised scrote wakes out of its catatonic state and suddenly realises there's a cyclist it's about
    to injure. Scrote looks wide-eyed and all of a sudden decides he should wave me on.

    There are some days when I think I should have a bike armed with exocet missiles.

    I guess I should be grateful that I wasn't injured despite the stupidity of the festering motorised
    scrotes...

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     
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  2. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
    > Not that I'm in a foul mood, you understand..

    Don't signal left. Not that it necessarily would have made any difference in the two situations that
    you described, but it's hard to see how it can be helpful in most situations.

    James
     
  3. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
    > Not that I'm in a foul mood, you understand..
    >

    Yes. Of course. I wouldn't dare suggest otherwise.

    > Went out on the bike earlier. Gloriously sunny December day.

    Isn't it just, bit of a nip in the air as well.

    >
    > This female festering motorised scrote *tried* to overtake me, but as there was a car 5 feet
    > in front of me, there was no room for her to overtake, so she drove *at me* and forced me into
    > the gutter.

    Don't quite understand. Did you see her in your mirror or was she alongside you and pulling back in?

    >
    > There are some days when I think I should have a bike armed with exocet missiles.
    >

    Anti-ship missiles wouldn't be to useful. Go for some RPGs mounted on the handlebars instead

    Tony
     
  4. "dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... ...
    > First one. I'm in a short queue of traffic waiting to turn left at a T-junction. Being a
    > considerate sort of cyclist I had left arm stuck out
    to
    > indicate I'm turning left. I get to head of queue - it's safe to pull out,
    so I
    > did so. Only to be cut up by the car which *was* behind me in the queue,
    who

    You mean that for left turns you don't just take a tight line around the curb and keep going ;-) ?

    Rich
     
  5. >> This female festering motorised scrote *tried* to overtake me, but as there was a car 5 feet in
    >> front of me, there was no room for her to overtake, so she drove *at me* and forced me into the
    >> gutter.
    >
    >Don't quite understand. Did you see her in your mirror or was she alongside you and
    >pulling back in?

    Well, when I was in the queue to turn left, having looked behind me, I could see there was a car
    behind me in same queue.

    I am at head of queue at T-junction waiting to turn left. I have left arm stuck out to indicate I am
    turning left.

    When it's safe to turn left .i.e., nothing coming from the right on the road in front (the one
    which has priority) - I pull out making the left turn to join the end of slow moving traffic. At
    this point, the car which was behind me in the queue to turn left made to overtake me, i.e. jump
    the queue by quickly starting to pull round me (on the right) whilst she's indicating she's
    turning left.

    As there was a car several feet in front of me in the main road (as I'd now turned on to the main
    road and it having stopped on the main road, a little further on, to make a right turn), there was
    actually no way the person who was attempting to overtake me could safely complete the manouvre.
    Indeed, if she'd been paying attention, she'd have been aware of traffic flow and I seriously doubt
    she'd have even attempted what she did if I'd been in a car.

    Due to the car in front of me being now being stopped, the car which was behind me and was trying to
    overtake, realised she couldn't actually go anywhere except she decided to pull into the left
    *alongside* me (by now) thus forcing me into the gutter. If she hadn't of pulled in, and tried to
    complete her unsafe overtaking, she'd have gone straight up the rear of the car in front of
    me.

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     
  6. snip

    > There are some days when I think I should have a bike armed with exocet missiles.

    Or a car horn like mine.

    Ken :)

    > I guess I should be grateful that I wasn't injured despite the stupidity
    of the
    > festering motorised scrotes...
    >
    > Cheers, helen s
    >
    >
    >
    > --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    > fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     
  7. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
    >
    >
    > Due to the car in front of me being now being stopped, the car which was behind me and was trying
    > to overtake, realised she couldn't actually go anywhere except she decided to pull into the left
    > *alongside* me (by now) thus forcing me into the gutter. If she hadn't of pulled in, and tried to
    > complete her unsafe overtaking, she'd have gone straight up the rear of the car in front of me.
    >

    Thanks for the clarification. I would have studiously "failed to notice her" and kept my road
    position. Takes a bit of nerves but they are unlikely to actually drive into you. Net effect is they
    end up stranded where they don't want to be in - in your case on the wrong side of the road with
    nowhere to go. My rationale is they are more likely to remember for next time.

    Glad you survived anyway - should have lobbed a paving slab through the open window ;-)

    Tony
     
  8. >You mean that for left turns you don't just take a tight line around the curb and keep going ;-) ?
    >

    No - I actually take note of things like stop lines, give way markings and traffic lights,
    etc., etc...

    :)

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     
  9. dailuggs

    dailuggs New Member

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    think i remember posting this in another thread a while ago but i think it worthwhile. carry a notebook and pencil with you and when something like this happens again stop your bike immediately and note down their numberplate and a little description of who was driving, it makes them **** scared when they look in their mirrors and see someone doing this, you dont have to actually report them but it will make them nervous for a few days afterwords and hopefully not be so stupid again.


    incidents like these make me glad i live in a rural area with very little traffic and almost no pinch points- usually never come accross one on my rides :)
     
  10. Johnb

    Johnb Guest

    dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

    > >> This female festering motorised scrote *tried* to overtake me, but as there was a car 5 feet in
    > >> front of me, there was no room for her to overtake, so she drove *at me* and forced me into the
    > >> gutter.
    >
    > As there was a car several feet in front of me in the main road (as I'd now turned on to the main
    > road and it having stopped on the main road, a little further on, to make a right turn), there was
    > actually no way the person who was attempting to overtake me could safely complete the manouvre.

    > Due to the car in front of me being now being stopped, the car which was behind me and was trying
    > to overtake, realised she couldn't actually go anywhere except she decided to pull into the left
    > *alongside* me (by now) thus forcing me into the gutter.

    This is just where some strong willed assertive riding can come into play, but you may need nerves
    of steel and a lot of confidence to do it. You also need to be _fully_ aware of what is going on
    around you and to be able to predict the outcome.

    Just stand your ground. You say the driver "forced" you into the gutter. I take this to mean that
    unless she actually hit you, then you gave way to her bullying. If you kept position (ie claimed
    your rightful road space) then she would have either had to hit you and push you out of the way or
    been left in a very difficult position with other traffic.

    The former could end up with a justifiable reporting to the police, while the latter would have
    probably left her receiving a lot of vebals from her fellow petrolheads - and motorists seem to care
    more about what other motorists think of them than a 'mouthy lycra-lout' [1].

    [1] Anyone on a bike who gets in their way.

    John B
     
  11. Lonnyz

    Lonnyz Guest

    Have to agree,

    no real point signalling left. The only time I signal left on the bike is if I'm coming up to a
    left turn and a car is facing me turning right down the same street I'm going left onto. He might
    be waiting for me to pass before turning right so better to signal that you're turning left and let
    him turn. LZ

    James Annan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
    > > Not that I'm in a foul mood, you understand..
    >
    > Don't signal left. Not that it necessarily would have made any difference in the two situations
    > that you described, but it's hard to see how it can be helpful in most situations.
    >
    > James
     
  12. Andyp

    Andyp Guest

    "JohnB" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Just stand your ground. You say the driver "forced" you into the gutter. I take this to mean that
    unless
    > she actually hit you, then you gave way to her bullying. If you kept position (ie claimed your
    > rightful road space) then she would
    have
    > either had to hit you and push you out of the way or been left in a very
    difficult
    > position with other traffic.

    Don't see how forcing someone else to hit anything, let alone yourself, is a good thing to do
    regardless of how badly they are driving and who has right of way.
     
  13. Johnb

    Johnb Guest

    AndyP wrote:

    > "JohnB" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > Just stand your ground. You say the driver "forced" you into the gutter. I take this to
    > > mean that
    > unless
    > > she actually hit you, then you gave way to her bullying. If you kept position (ie claimed your
    > > rightful road space) then she would
    > have
    > > either had to hit you and push you out of the way or been left in a very
    > difficult
    > > position with other traffic.
    >
    > Don't see how forcing someone else to hit anything, let alone yourself, is a good thing to do
    > regardless of how badly they are driving and who has right of way.

    Firstly you don't "force" anyone to do anything. That's plain silly, but by assertive use of the
    road you can influence their decisions that may make it safer for yourself.

    You snipped the most important part: "You also need to be _fully_ aware of what is going on around
    you and to be able to predict the outcome."

    Note the word "fully".

    When a vehicle is moving in on you at a slow speed (which they usually are when they cut in on a
    left hand turn) you can still have control of your own safety.

    In the worst situation you may indeed have to abandon the bike in mid-pedal, or, you may have the
    opportunity give a polite knock [1] on the car door as it turns to gain the driver's attention.

    [1] Or even stronger ;-)

    Even a slight tap can sound much louder inside the vehicle and they will nearly always stop or
    react. At least then they will have acknowledged your presence.

    John B
     
  14. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:01:30 -0000, "lonnyz" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Have to agree,
    >
    >no real point signalling left. The only time I signal left on the bike is if I'm coming up to a
    >left turn and a car is facing me turning right down the same street I'm going left onto. He might
    >be waiting for me to pass before turning right so better to signal that you're turning left and let
    >him turn.

    I will signal left if there's a vehicle waiting to leave the road I'm turning into so he doesn't
    have to wait unnecessarily. Also I'll signal left when leaving a roundabout. I wouldn't signal in
    the situation Helen described; it's almost inviting the response she got.

    --
    Dave...
     
  15. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:58:48 -0000, "AndyP" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Don't see how forcing someone else to hit anything, let alone yourself, is a good thing to do
    >regardless of how badly they are driving and who has right of way.

    Why can't they simply brake and move back in behind the cyclist?

    --
    Dave...
     
  16. "Michael MacClancy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I'm not sure what Helen is objecting to. Everyone who has replied to her original post has said
    > that they wouldn't signal in this situation.
    >
    > 'Cyclecraft' says that when turning left cyclists should adopt 'the
    primary
    > riding position, however odd it might seem to move right in order to turn left. *It is a common
    > mistake for cyclists to keep too far left at all turns.*' Furthermore, for the reasons apparent in
    > Helen's description, it suggests that signalling a left turn is not always desirable. Its advice
    is
    > 'to signal left only immediately before you turn and when it is unlikely
    to
    > cause any danger to yourself.'
    >

    I think some of you are being a bit hard on Helen - it's really impossible and wrong to make
    judgements without knowing exactly the junction layout, road positions, signs and traffic conditions
    involved. Helen was objecting to being cut up by a motorist, as any of us would. I think signalling
    a left turn while standing in a queue of stationary traffic is pretty weird and I wouldn't do it,
    but I feel it was unlikely to have had any relevance to what happened. The motorist should have seen
    her turn left, and should have noticed her position on the carriageway where she actually was when
    the incident happened. I don't think we're talking about a motorist confused or deciding to take
    liberties because of her signal (eg as in a motorist turning right to cut in front of you because
    you've signalled left to turn into the same street).

    Rich
     
  17. Just zis Guy

    Just zis Guy Guest

    "Michael MacClancy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > I'm not sure what Helen is objecting to. Everyone who has replied to her original post has said
    > that they wouldn't signal in this situation.

    I think she's objecting to being given lectures from Cycling 101 instead of sympathy.
    Understandable enough.

    For the record I would have signalled as well. It's not Helen's fault if the cager concerned is an
    arrogant clueless git. I usually signal unless it would compromise my control of my bike, not least
    because it pisses me off when other people don't.

    > Good book is 'Cyclecraft', everyone should have a copy.

    I have it and have read it twice. I still signal.

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  18. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Dave Kahn wrote:

    >
    > I will signal left if there's a vehicle waiting to leave the road I'm turning into so he doesn't
    > have to wait unnecessarily.

    There was one place on my daily commute where I used to do this fairly frequently, but only if there
    was no vehicle either behind me on the main road, or coming towards me. Since moving two years ago,
    I honestly can't remember when I last signalled left. I also can't remember the last time I was cut
    up on a left turn. I still get cars overtaking stupidly and without enough clearance sometimes, so
    it's not like alll the drivers are good.

    James
     
  19. "Richard Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > I think some of you are being a bit hard on Helen - it's really impossible and wrong to make
    > judgements without knowing exactly the junction layout, road positions, signs and traffic
    > conditions involved.

    I think this is possibly true and indicates a real deficiency with communicating on Usenet. The
    problem is that only the OP has the full story. However, is it so unreasonable for someone to pass
    on advice like, "I wouldn't have signalled in that situation"? I shouldn't speak for the others who
    said this but it's not a criticism, it's just advice. Obviously Helen is in the best position to
    judge whether it's useful or not.

    Helen was objecting
    > to being cut up by a motorist, as any of us would.

    That was her original objection but in the post I replied to she wrote:

    "That bit *is* blaming the cyclist who is cycling in a way that adheres to the rules of the road for
    the bad behaviour of a motorist. That bit *is* victim blaming."

    She seems to be objecting to the implication that cyclists have to accept responsibility for their
    own safety to a large extent and that sometimes it's necessary to do things that may appear
    discourteous in order to achieve this. Given a choice between John Franklin's advice and Helen's I
    know whose I'd choose.

    I think signalling a
    > left turn while standing in a queue of stationary traffic is pretty weird and I wouldn't do it,

    So you behave in the same way as the others who have posted in this thread ....

    but I feel it was unlikely to have had any relevance
    > to what happened. The motorist should have seen her turn left, and should have noticed her
    > position on the carriageway where she actually was when
    the
    > incident happened. I don't think we're talking about a motorist confused
    or
    > deciding to take liberties because of her signal (eg as in a motorist turning right to cut in
    > front of you because you've signalled left to turn into the same street).
    >

    I agree with all of this. But unfortunately we share the roads with some very stupid people and have
    to make allowances for them. A lot of 'Cyclecraft' is concerned with this.
    ___
    Michael MacClancy
     
  20. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Richard Goodman wrote:

    > I think some of you are being a bit hard on Helen - it's really impossible and wrong to make
    > judgements without knowing exactly the junction layout, road positions, signs and traffic
    > conditions involved. Helen was objecting to being cut up by a motorist, as any of us would.

    I don't _blame_ Helen at all. I don't believe she was doing anything _wrong_. In a perfect world,
    signalling would be best practice. Nevertheless, the fact that she got cut up twice in pretty much
    the same situation in a single ride seems a pretty strong hint, and I do think it is sound advice to
    not (usually) signal for left turns, although no-one can say for sure that this would necessarily
    have made a difference in her particular case. Taking the corner wide is also generally good advice,
    but from the description I have no reason to believe that she was hugging the corner (which, again,
    would not mean she was to blame, but could still be less than optimal).

    James
     
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