finding a good wheel builder

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Yep, using a set of vice grips may work on wheel nipples as well(bad
idea) . MANY inexpensive truing stands out there, the right tool for
the job, along with a good spoke wrench.
Wheels are like tattoos, you'll never get(build) just one.

Speaking of truing stands, do you know if I can the center gauge for a
Minoura Workman Pro?
Minoura calls it the vertical shaking gauge.

I got this stand used, from a friend of mine, for the princely sum of
$10, but he can't seem to find the gauge. Why he removed it, is a
mystery to me.

Another question, spoke wrench sizes, is there a rule as to size of
nipples to type of wheel? Are most road wheels a #1 and mtb wheels a
#?, 27" wheels a #2?

Life is Good!
Jeff

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Wheels are like tattoos, you'll never get(build) just one.

That's good. (I always wonder a little about my yoga women who just have a
small ankle tattoo or something. Maybe there IS a second one somewhere!
<eg> )

Bill "two so far...and contemplating a third" S.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 03:47:28 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Patrick Lamb said:

Most of the "magic" is in the user, not the stand. Since the bikes
stay outside, but the truing stand can come into the heated or air
conditioned house, it's worth the cost for me.

Pat

What's the matter, your Mom won't let you bring your bike in the
house?

Nope, grew up, left home, and got married some years ago. [1] Keeping
the bike outside is one of the little things I do to keep my wife
happy.

Quoted message said:

I agree a truing stand is the more elegant and easier to use solution,
but bringing a bike in the house is not difficult.

Do I sense some hostility here? Perhaps bringing a bike inside is
your way of expressing your manliness. That's fine, but some of us
have found other ways. Maybe when you get older you'll understand.

Quoted message said:

Actually I keep my bikes in a spare room, and I use my trainer as a
workstand.

I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
stand.

Quoted message said:

Life is Good!
Jeff

[1] OK, some decades ago.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Patrick Lamb said:

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 03:47:28 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Patrick Lamb said:

Most of the "magic" is in the user, not the stand. Since the bikes
stay outside, but the truing stand can come into the heated or air
conditioned house, it's worth the cost for me.

Pat

What's the matter, your Mom won't let you bring your bike in the
house?

Nope, grew up, left home, and got married some years ago. [1] Keeping
the bike outside is one of the little things I do to keep my wife
happy.

Quoted message said:

I agree a truing stand is the more elegant and easier to use solution,
but bringing a bike in the house is not difficult.

Do I sense some hostility here? Perhaps bringing a bike inside is
your way of expressing your manliness. That's fine, but some of us
have found other ways. Maybe when you get older you'll understand.

No hostility, I'm always a little surprised at people who have silly
little rules, like never bringing a bike in the house. It's not a big
deal, one way or another.
Bringing a bike in the house has nothing to do with manliness. Women
have been known to bring their bikes into the house.
How much older do I have to be? Odds are, I'm older than you are, I'm
51. Of course I'm you at heart;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually I keep my bikes in a spare room, and I use my trainer as a
workstand.

I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
stand.

It doesn't, I said workstand, not truing stand. Up until recently I
did use the bike itself when truing, and actually, you can true a
wheel while the bike is in the traner, using the brake pads as a
guide. I just bought a used truing stand, but the bike still comes in.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Life is Good!
Jeff

[1] OK, some decades ago.

Pat

Life is Good!
Jeff

Patrick Lamb said:

I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
stand.

A trainer works great as a truing stand, at least for a rear wheel and
perhaps a front wheel too if the axle holding mechanism closes enough to
hold the narrower front hub securely.

All you need is a reference point to see how true and/or round the wheel
is. I've used a dial indicator on a magnetic base. You can probably
use a popsicle stick taped to the trainer some place.

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

Quoted message said:

Michael Wileman said:

In TomP said:

Buy Jobst's book, study it; then look in the mirror.

Quoted message said:

You won't be sorry.

What is the best value in a low-cost truing stand and setup
for someone who really only needs to build a few wheels?

Mike

Dear Mike,

It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.

Dear Carl,

The bike as truing stand works, but is not all that efficient. I can
build a wheel much, much faster with a decent truing stand. And since
wheelbuilders around here charge >$50 for each build, it does not take
long to justify the cost of a decent truing stand and centering gauge.
I have built 5 wheels in the past 18 months, more than enough to pay
for my middle of the pack truing stand a couple of times over.

Cheers,

- rick

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:26:48 GMT, Victor Kan

_UCEloopdrive.net said:

Patrick Lamb said:

I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
stand.

A trainer works great as a truing stand, at least for a rear wheel and
perhaps a front wheel too if the axle holding mechanism closes enough to
hold the narrower front hub securely.

All you need is a reference point to see how true and/or round the wheel
is. I've used a dial indicator on a magnetic base. You can probably
use a popsicle stick taped to the trainer some place.

Dear Victor,

Soft, bendable aluminum wire works even better than tape-and-sticks.
Snip off a piece, wrap it around almost anything, and bend the free
end to wherever you like. A coil costs about a buck at a hardware
store. Darned useful when you need something that stays fixed in thin
air to show where a piece should fit.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Here is THE MAN for wheel building:-

http://www.youngwheels.com/

Hope this helps you.

Lewis.

*****

Like his philosophy of a light wheel is a light rim, light, reliable
hub and enough spokes for the application. As a big guy, I raced for
years on GL330, GEL280, High 'E' hubs but 36h...This spokes up
front...heavy rims, not enough spokes and marketing BS does not a
reliable wheel make.

GEL280... rofl. Hope that was a front wheel :-)

Michael Wileman said:

In said:

It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

Quoted message said:

The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

Quoted message said:

Michael Wileman said:

In said:

It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

Quoted message said:

The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

"I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results."
--Jobst Brandt

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/04d78349bc17a612?hl=en&

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Michael Wileman said:

In <[email hidden]> [email hidden] writes:

>It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
>seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

>The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
>around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

"I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results."
--Jobst Brandt

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/04d78349bc17a612?hl=en&

You prove my point *exactly*.

....and nary a hint of a smarmy "dear" or "cheers". Amazing.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Wileman said:

In <[email hidden]> [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

Quoted message said:

The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

As opposed to you who hasn't tried it.

Greg

G.T. said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Wileman said:

In <[email hidden]> [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
>seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

>The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
>around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

As opposed to you who hasn't tried it.

Bad guess, Greg. Thanks for playing, try again later.

Someone sniped:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
points.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
something to be desired on my bicycle.

Quoted message said:

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
"your own".

As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
reason or the other, doing so is easy.

Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.

Jobst Brandt

jobst.brandt opined:

Quoted message said:

Someone sniped:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
> points.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
something to be desired on my bicycle.

Quoted message said:

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
"your own".

As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
reason or the other, doing so is easy.

Roadside "emergencies" are hardly the same thing as routine
wheelbuilding.

Quoted message said:

Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.

Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
frustration and questionable results. Next time, they'll slink off to
the LBS with an open wallet.

But as long as they buy your book, who cares, right?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jobst.brandt opined:

Quoted message said:

Someone sniped:

Quoted message said:

>> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
>> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

Quoted message said:

>> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
>> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
>> points.

Quoted message said:

> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
> something to be desired on my bicycle.

Quoted message said:

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
"your own".

As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
reason or the other, doing so is easy.

Roadside "emergencies" are hardly the same thing as routine
wheelbuilding.

Quoted message said:

Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.

Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
frustration and questionable results. Next time, they'll slink off to
the LBS with an open wallet.

The hard way? What's so hard about it? Seriously? I'm mean, really
seriously? It's not brain surgery.

Greg

G.T. said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jobst.brandt opined:

Quoted message said:

Someone sniped:

>>> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
>>> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

>>> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
>>> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
>>> points.

>> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
>> something to be desired on my bicycle.

> That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
> reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
> "your own".

As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
reason or the other, doing so is easy.

Roadside "emergencies" are hardly the same thing as routine
wheelbuilding.

Quoted message said:

Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.

Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
frustration and questionable results. Next time, they'll slink off to
the LBS with an open wallet.

The hard way? What's so hard about it? Seriously? I'm mean, really
seriously? It's not brain surgery.

Greg

You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.

(Tune in next week, when Greg advocates overhauling a bike using only
adjustable wrenchs and, of course, vise grips. It's not hard, really!
;-> )

Quoted message said:

You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.

I've never used anything else. I can eyeball the dish quite well, and
just use a thumbnail steadied on the seatstay to find the "high" spots
on the rim.

Please detail the parts of this operation that become much easier when
a truing stand is used... I guess I don't know what I'm missing.

Ron Ruff said:

Quoted message said:

You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.

I've never used anything else. I can eyeball the dish quite well, and
just use a thumbnail steadied on the seatstay to find the "high" spots
on the rim.

If you're happy doing it this way, and happy with the results, what can
I say? Enjoy your wheels!

Quoted message said:

Please detail the parts of this operation that become much easier when
a truing stand is used... I guess I don't know what I'm missing.

No offense, but why not try it for yourself? Even an inexpensive stand
might prove to be a revelation. If not, you can always return it.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.

No one said it wasn't easier using a stand (personally I wouldn't mind a
truing stand mounted on a workbench so I wouldn't have to hunch over) but
you said:
"That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as 'your own'."

Please tell us why it's such a bad idea. Are you worried for my back?

Obs also said:
"Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
frustration and questionable results."

The only time I've been frustrated is while I'm doing the initial lacing but
with Sheldon's instructions that frustration is long gone. And my results
are definitely not questionable.

Greg