finding a good wheel builder

[Jeff Starr]

On 26 Jun 2006 05:38:50 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>Yep, using a set of vice grips may work on wheel nipples as well(bad
>idea) . MANY inexpensive truing stands out there, the right tool for
>the job, along with a good spoke wrench.
>Wheels are like tattoos, you'll never get(build) just one.

Speaking of truing stands, do you know if I can the center gauge for a
Minoura Workman Pro?
Minoura calls it the vertical shaking gauge.

I got this stand used, from a friend of mine, for the princely sum of
$10, but he can't seem to find the gauge. Why he removed it, is a
mystery to me.

Another question, spoke wrench sizes, is there a rule as to size of
nipples to type of wheel? Are most road wheels a #1 and mtb wheels a
#?, 27" wheels a #2?


Life is Good!
Jeff

 

[Sorni]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> Wheels are like tattoos, you'll never get(build) just one.

That's good. (I always wonder a little about my yoga women who just have a
small ankle tattoo or something. Maybe there IS a second one somewhere!
<eg> )

Bill "two so far...and contemplating a third" S.

 

[Patrick Lamb]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 03:47:28 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:17:56 -0500, Patrick Lamb
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Most of the "magic" is in the user, not the stand. Since the bikes
>>stay outside, but the truing stand can come into the heated or air
>>conditioned house, it's worth the cost for me.
>>
>>Pat
>>
>What's the matter, your Mom won't let you bring your bike in the
>house?

Nope, grew up, left home, and got married some years ago. [1] Keeping
the bike outside is one of the little things I do to keep my wife
happy.

>I agree a truing stand is the more elegant and easier to use solution,
>but bringing a bike in the house is not difficult.

Do I sense some hostility here? Perhaps bringing a bike inside is
your way of expressing your manliness. That's fine, but some of us
have found other ways. Maybe when you get older you'll understand.

>Actually I keep my bikes in a spare room, and I use my trainer as a
>workstand.

I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
stand.

>Life is Good!
>Jeff

[1] OK, some decades ago.

Pat

Email address works as is.

 

[Jeff Starr]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 21:53:51 -0500, Patrick Lamb
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 03:47:28 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:17:56 -0500, Patrick Lamb
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Most of the "magic" is in the user, not the stand. Since the bikes
>>>stay outside, but the truing stand can come into the heated or air
>>>conditioned house, it's worth the cost for me.
>>>
>>>Pat
>>>
>>What's the matter, your Mom won't let you bring your bike in the
>>house?
>
>Nope, grew up, left home, and got married some years ago. [1] Keeping
>the bike outside is one of the little things I do to keep my wife
>happy.
>
>>I agree a truing stand is the more elegant and easier to use solution,
>>but bringing a bike in the house is not difficult.
>
>Do I sense some hostility here? Perhaps bringing a bike inside is
>your way of expressing your manliness. That's fine, but some of us
>have found other ways. Maybe when you get older you'll understand.
No hostility, I'm always a little surprised at people who have silly
little rules, like never bringing a bike in the house. It's not a big
deal, one way or another.
Bringing a bike in the house has nothing to do with manliness. Women
have been known to bring their bikes into the house.
How much older do I have to be? Odds are, I'm older than you are, I'm
51. Of course I'm you at heart;-)
>
>>Actually I keep my bikes in a spare room, and I use my trainer as a
>>workstand.
>
>I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
>but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
>stand.
It doesn't, I said workstand, not truing stand. Up until recently I
did use the bike itself when truing, and actually, you can true a
wheel while the bike is in the traner, using the brake pads as a
guide. I just bought a used truing stand, but the bike still comes in.
>
>>Life is Good!
>>Jeff
>
>[1] OK, some decades ago.
>
>Pat
>

Life is Good!
Jeff

 

[Victor Kan]

Patrick Lamb wrote:
> I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
> but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
> stand.

A trainer works great as a truing stand, at least for a rear wheel and
perhaps a front wheel too if the axle holding mechanism closes enough to
hold the narrower front hub securely.

All you need is a reference point to see how true and/or round the wheel
is. I've used a dial indicator on a magnetic base. You can probably
use a popsicle stick taped to the trainer some place.

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

 

[Rick]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:29:48 +0000 (UTC), Michael Wileman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In <[email protected]> TomP <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >>Buy Jobst's book, study it; then look in the mirror.
> >
> >>You won't be sorry.
> >
> >What is the best value in a low-cost truing stand and setup
> >for someone who really only needs to build a few wheels?
> >
> >Mike
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
>
> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
> around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.
>

Dear Carl,

The bike as truing stand works, but is not all that efficient. I can
build a wheel much, much faster with a decent truing stand. And since
wheelbuilders around here charge >$50 for each build, it does not take
long to justify the cost of a decent truing stand and centering gauge.
I have built 5 wheels in the past 18 months, more than enough to pay
for my middle of the pack truing stand a couple of times over.

Cheers,

- rick

 

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:26:48 GMT, Victor Kan
<[email protected]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote:

>Patrick Lamb wrote:
>> I can see how you'd work on some parts of the bike on your trainer,
>> but it's difficult for me to imagine how the trainer works as a truing
>> stand.
>
>A trainer works great as a truing stand, at least for a rear wheel and
>perhaps a front wheel too if the axle holding mechanism closes enough to
>hold the narrower front hub securely.
>
>All you need is a reference point to see how true and/or round the wheel
>is. I've used a dial indicator on a magnetic base. You can probably
>use a popsicle stick taped to the trainer some place.

Dear Victor,

Soft, bendable aluminum wire works even better than tape-and-sticks.
Snip off a piece, wrap it around almost anything, and bend the free
end to wherever you like. A coil costs about a buck at a hardware
store. Darned useful when you need something that stays fixed in thin
air to show where a piece should fit.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Bill Lloyd]

On 2006-06-25 06:02:38 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> said:

>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Here is THE MAN for wheel building:-
>>
>> http://www.youngwheels.com/
>>
>> Hope this helps you.
>>
>> Lewis.
>>
>> *****
>
> Like his philosophy of a light wheel is a light rim, light, reliable
> hub and enough spokes for the application. As a big guy, I raced for
> years on GL330, GEL280, High 'E' hubs but 36h...This spokes up
> front...heavy rims, not enough spokes and marketing BS does not a
> reliable wheel make.

GEL280... rofl. Hope that was a front wheel

 

[[email protected]]

Michael Wileman wrote:
> In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>
> >It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> >seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
>
> >The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
> >around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.
>
> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
> leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.

That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

 

[[email protected]]

On 27 Jun 2006 12:30:59 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>
>Michael Wileman wrote:
>> In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>>
>> >It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
>> >seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
>>
>> >The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
>> >around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.
>>
>> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
>> leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.
>
>That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
>about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".

"I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results."
--Jobst Brandt

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/04d78349bc17a612?hl=en&

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> On 27 Jun 2006 12:30:59 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >
> >Michael Wileman wrote:
> >> In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> >>
> >> >It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> >> >seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
> >>
> >> >The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
> >> >around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.
> >>
> >> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
> >> leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.
> >
> >That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
> >about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".
>
> "I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results."
> --Jobst Brandt
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/04d78349bc17a612?hl=en&

You prove my point *exactly*.

....and nary a hint of a smarmy "dear" or "cheers". Amazing.

 

[G.T.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Michael Wileman wrote:
> > In <[email protected]> [email protected]
writes:
> >
> > >It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> > >seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
> >
> > >The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
> > >around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.
> >
> > I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
> > leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.
>
> That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
> about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".
>

As opposed to you who hasn't tried it.

Greg

 

[[email protected]]

G.T. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Michael Wileman wrote:
> > > In <[email protected]> [email protected]
> writes:
> > >
> > > >It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> > > >seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
> > >
> > > >The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire wrapped
> > > >around the frame will provide all sorts of reference points.
> > >
> > > I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it
> > > leaves something to be desired on my bicycle.
> >
> > That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
> > about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as "your own".
> >
>
> As opposed to you who hasn't tried it.
>
>

Bad guess, Greg. Thanks for playing, try again later.

 

[[email protected]]

Someone sniped:

>>> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
>>> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.

>>> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
>>> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
>>> points.

>> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
>> something to be desired on my bicycle.

> That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
> reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
> "your own".

As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
reason or the other, doing so is easy.

Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

jobst.brandt opined:
> Someone sniped:
>
> >>> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> >>> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
>
> >>> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
> >>> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
> >>> points.
>
> >> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
> >> something to be desired on my bicycle.
>
> > That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
> > reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
> > "your own".
>
> As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
> before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
> because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
> reason or the other, doing so is easy.
>

Roadside "emergencies" are hardly the same thing as routine
wheelbuilding.


> Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
> are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
> lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.
>

Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
frustration and questionable results. Next time, they'll slink off to
the LBS with an open wallet.

But as long as they buy your book, who cares, right?

 

[G.T.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> jobst.brandt opined:
> > Someone sniped:
> >
> > >>> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> > >>> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
> >
> > >>> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
> > >>> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
> > >>> points.
> >
> > >> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
> > >> something to be desired on my bicycle.
> >
> > > That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
> > > reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
> > > "your own".
> >
> > As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
> > before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
> > because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
> > reason or the other, doing so is easy.
> >
>
> Roadside "emergencies" are hardly the same thing as routine
> wheelbuilding.
>
>
> > Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
> > are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
> > lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.
> >
>
> Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
> frustration and questionable results. Next time, they'll slink off to
> the LBS with an open wallet.
>

The hard way? What's so hard about it? Seriously? I'm mean, really
seriously? It's not brain surgery.

Greg

 

[[email protected]]

G.T. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > jobst.brandt opined:
> > > Someone sniped:
> > >
> > > >>> It's hard to beat the price of turning the bike upside-down on its
> > > >>> seat and handlebars and sitting on a stool.
> > >
> > > >>> The brake pads and a piece of easily bendable aluminum wire
> > > >>> wrapped around the frame will provide all sorts of reference
> > > >>> points.
> > >
> > > >> I've actually tried this (for truing) and found that it leaves
> > > >> something to be desired on my bicycle.
> > >
> > > > That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to
> > > > reading about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as
> > > > "your own".
> > >
> > > As I said, I built many wheels using the bicycle as truing stand
> > > before someone gave me a stand. It's good practice to master this
> > > because, when on the road with a wheel that needs truing for one
> > > reason or the other, doing so is easy.
> > >
> >
> > Roadside "emergencies" are hardly the same thing as routine
> > wheelbuilding.
> >
> >
> > > Sure, a truing stand and dishing tool are great conveniences but they
> > > are not always available, much less a tensiometer. The point is that
> > > lack of special equipment shouldn't deter one from building wheels.
> > >
> >
> > Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
> > frustration and questionable results. Next time, they'll slink off to
> > the LBS with an open wallet.
> >
>
> The hard way? What's so hard about it? Seriously? I'm mean, really
> seriously? It's not brain surgery.
>
> Greg


You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.

(Tune in next week, when Greg advocates overhauling a bike using only
adjustable wrenchs and, of course, vise grips. It's not hard, really!
;-> )

 

[Ron Ruff]

[email protected] wrote:
> You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
> the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.

I've never used anything else. I can eyeball the dish quite well, and
just use a thumbnail steadied on the seatstay to find the "high" spots
on the rim.

Please detail the parts of this operation that become much easier when
a truing stand is used... I guess I don't know what I'm missing.

 

[[email protected]]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
> > the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.
>
> I've never used anything else. I can eyeball the dish quite well, and
> just use a thumbnail steadied on the seatstay to find the "high" spots
> on the rim.
>

If you're happy doing it this way, and happy with the results, what can
I say? Enjoy your wheels!


> Please detail the parts of this operation that become much easier when
> a truing stand is used... I guess I don't know what I'm missing.


No offense, but why not try it for yourself? Even an inexpensive stand
might prove to be a revelation. If not, you can always return it.

 

[G.T.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> You're right, Greg, using a truing stand, etc., is no easier than using
> the bike frame to "build" wheels. I'm sorry I brought it up.
>

No one said it wasn't easier using a stand (personally I wouldn't mind a
truing stand mounted on a workbench so I wouldn't have to hunch over) but
you said:
"That's because you have actually tried doing it, as opposed to reading
about it on the internet and passing the bad idea along as 'your own'."

Please tell us why it's such a bad idea. Are you worried for my back?

Obs also said:
"Sure, encourage folks to try to build wheels the hard way, leading to
frustration and questionable results."

The only time I've been frustrated is while I'm doing the initial lacing but
with Sheldon's instructions that frustration is long gone. And my results
are definitely not questionable.

Greg