Firecrackers!

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Karen M., Jun 19, 2004.

  1. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On 20 Jun 2004 07:58:22 -0700, [email protected] (John) from
    http://groups.google.com wrote:

    >
    >The dogs have bitten me. I confronted the owner after that happened
    >and was told that since they lived in the country they weren't going
    >to chain their dogs...which I guess I can understand. But there are
    >dozens of unchained dogs around here that don't chase me and have
    >never bitten me.
    >
    >After talking to the owner some more, I decided to try Halt spray. I
    >managed to hit 1 dog with it. That dog immediately stopped chasing,
    >went to the side of the road, and started rubbing its head on the
    >ground. But the dogs have continued to chase despite that instance
    >and further use of the Halt.
    >
    >I regard the owner's negligence in training and controlling his
    >animals, which is leading towards the dogs being put down, as a far
    >greater example of animal cruelty than ammonia, firecrackers, or a
    >gunshot to the head.


    No, ammonia is still cruel. There is no doubt the owner is in the wrong hear,
    however, you are too. Instead of escalating to chemical warfare, you should
    call the animal control authorities. Perhaps they can help the dogs find a
    better owner.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     


  2. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    wrote:

    >But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
    >skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
    >would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?


    Test it on your own eyes first.

    Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.



    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  3. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On 20 Jun 2004 12:11:54 GMT, [email protected] (GABIKE) from AOL
    http://www.aol.com wrote:

    >>Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying ammonia
    >>on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
    >>courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on a
    >>chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to make
    >>it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.
    >>
    >>
    >>--
    >>Kevan Smith
    >>[email protected]
    >>
    >>

    >
    >What about cruelty to humans? Get your head out of your rear end.


    A dog chasing someone is not cruelty. It is usually instinct or play.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  4. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email protected]>
    from DCI HiNet wrote:

    >You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
    >directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
    >whatever is chasing you, and you.


    That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
    would spray the ammonia on the dog.

    >Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
    >upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
    >the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.


    A dingo ate your heart, apparently.

    Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
    riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
    are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.

    Frankly, though, I think you are lying.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  5. H. M. Leary

    H. M. Leary Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email protected]>
    > from DCI HiNet wrote:
    >
    > >You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
    > >directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
    > >whatever is chasing you, and you.

    >
    > That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
    > would spray the ammonia on the dog.
    >
    > >Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
    > >upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
    > >the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.

    >
    > A dingo ate your heart, apparently.
    >
    > Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
    > riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
    > are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.
    >
    > Frankly, though, I think you are lying.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Kevan Smith
    > [email protected]


    Mr. Klein lives in Taiwan, Ibelieve.

    There, dog is a fine meal eaten by humans.

    Only fair that a dog gets a chance at eating a humane....)

    What a beautiful day here on the east coast. Why am I stuck mowing the lawn,
    triming the hedge cutting down a dead tree, etc etc etc..

    I could be RIDING!

    HAND

    --
    "Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness"

    - Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution
     
  6. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Kevan Smith <[email protected]> writes:

    > Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
    > not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I have
    > seen it work many times.


    Most of the city dogs that have chased after me, stopped when
    I did. I guess I spoilt their fun, but I didn't want them getting
    hit by cars. Didn't even need to squirt anything at them.
    Some dogs might need a light, educational swat or poke with a
    pump or something, just enough to teach them that bikes aren't
    as fun or appropriate as a tennis ball or frisbee to chase after.
    Don't have to bash their heads in, though; far from it.

    Sometimes dogs don't even chase for play, they just desperately
    need someone to talk to.

    Cats generally know exactly the right amount of warning feint plus
    actual force to use to get typical house pet dogs to back off.
    We can learn from cats.


    cheers,
    Tom


    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  7. Pat

    Pat Guest


    >
    > Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying

    ammonia
    > on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
    > courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on

    a
    > chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to

    make
    > it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.


    > Kevan Smith


    Two things: One, people ARE allowed to defend themselves against attackers,
    whether they be humans or animals. and, Two, people are not bound by what
    one Kevan Smith thinks is or is not acceptable self defense.

    Pat in TX
     
  8. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Only fair that a dog gets a chance at eating a humane....)


    LOL

    > What a beautiful day here on the east coast. Why am I stuck mowing the lawn,
    > triming the hedge cutting down a dead tree, etc etc etc..
    >
    > I could be RIDING!


    It's too hot anyways ;-)
    I've got some lawn & garden care to do, too.

    > HAND


    You too.


    cheers,
    Tom


    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD
    Above address is just a spam midden.
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  9. Badger_South

    Badger_South Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    >wrote:
    >
    >>But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
    >>skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
    >>would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

    >
    >Test it on your own eyes first.
    >
    >Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.


    Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
    to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
    intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
    spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

    -Badger
     
  10. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
    >>>skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
    >>>would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?

    >>
    >>Test it on your own eyes first.
    >>
    >>Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

    >
    >Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
    >to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
    >intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
    >spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?


    It's not hostile. If you want to find out the effects of ammonia on eyes, then
    use your own. Why torture a dog?

    Deliberately using a chemical known to blind is cruelty to animals. Yes, I can
    blame people who break the law, previously bitten or not.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  11. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats) from
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > Kevan Smith <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
    >> not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I have
    >> seen it work many times.

    >
    >Most of the city dogs that have chased after me, stopped when
    >I did. I guess I spoilt their fun, but I didn't want them getting
    >hit by cars. Didn't even need to squirt anything at them.


    That's been my experience, too. Also, I've made some good dog friends in the
    countryside. I look forward to a little race with them, and I think they like
    it, too. However, there are some days that are so hot and muggy they just stay
    in the shade and give a lazy little woof and a wag as I ride by.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  12. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 13:18:48 -0500, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying

    >ammonia
    >> on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
    >> courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on

    >a
    >> chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to

    >make
    >> it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.

    >
    >> Kevan Smith

    >
    >Two things: One, people ARE allowed to defend themselves against attackers,
    >whether they be humans or animals. and, Two, people are not bound by what
    >one Kevan Smith thinks is or is not acceptable self defense.


    Well, no shit. I'm glad you stepped up on your teensy sopabox to advocate
    torturing dogs.

    BTW, spraying a chasing dog with ammonia is NOT self defense.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  13. BOC

    BOC Guest

    "The amount of ammonia produced by humans every year is almost equal
    to that produced by nature every year. Ammonia is produced naturally in soil
    by bacteria, decaying plants and animals, and animal wastes. Ammonia is
    essential for many biological processes.


    How can ammonia affect my health?
    Exposure to high concentrations of ammonia in the air may cause severe
    burns in your skin, eyes, throat, and lungs. In extreme cases, blindness,
    lung damage, or death could occur. Breathing lower concentrations will cause
    coughing and nose and throat irritation.

    If you swallow ammonia, you could suffer burns in your mouth, throat,
    and stomach. Concentrated ammonia spilled on the skin will cause burns.
    Animal studies show effects similar to those observed in people. We do not
    know if ammonia affects reproduction in humans.



    http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts126.html"

    "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    > wrote:
    >
    > Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.
    > --
    > Kevan Smith
    > [email protected]
     
  14. di

    di Guest


    >
    > You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
    > yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
    > merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for

    play,
    > not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I

    have
    > seen it work many times.
    >
    > --
    > Kevan Smith
    >


    Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
    chase or bite? Don't think so, the dog's actions are your option to
    determine if he means you harm or not.
     
  15. Badger_South

    Badger_South Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:19:13 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
    >>>>skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
    >>>>would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?
    >>>
    >>>Test it on your own eyes first.
    >>>
    >>>Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

    >>
    >>Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
    >>to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
    >>intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
    >>spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

    >
    >It's not hostile. If you want to find out the effects of ammonia on eyes, then
    >use your own. Why torture a dog?
    >
    >Deliberately using a chemical known to blind is cruelty to animals. Yes, I can
    >blame people who break the law, previously bitten or not.


    OK, having read the OP's 'dangers of ammonia', I agree, it's not cool to
    use concentrated ammonia on animals for any reason. I think the reason one
    poster mentioned it was that it's a common household chemical, and they may
    have recalled the reaction to an ammonia capsule, which when used to arouse
    from fainting, causes aversion; they may have been imagining squirting the
    dog's nose, actually.

    So I don't think anyone would advocate, nor deliberately use to blind, such
    a substance.

    I've never sprayed a dog with anything, but I have been harassed by many
    dogs, had them jump on me (which the owners think is 'cute'), had their
    claws rip the skin on my legs (still have a scar).

    Again, your reaction seems hostile, or at least exaggerated, considering no
    one said anything about blinding, to a simple inquiry.

    But it's true, eveyone seems to side with the dogs; dogs are completely
    faultless, "if you get bit it's your fault for being in the wrong place at
    the wrong time", "he's harmless", "he's never done that before", "my dog
    would never bite you" (while watching the dog chow down on your leg).
    Perhaps we -should- spray the owners. ;-)

    -Badger
     
  16. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:10:55 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 20 Jun 2004 07:58:22 -0700, [email protected] (John) from
    >http://groups.google.com wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>The dogs have bitten me. I confronted the owner after that happened
    >>and was told that since they lived in the country they weren't going
    >>to chain their dogs...which I guess I can understand. But there are
    >>dozens of unchained dogs around here that don't chase me and have
    >>never bitten me.
    >>
    >>After talking to the owner some more, I decided to try Halt spray. I
    >>managed to hit 1 dog with it. That dog immediately stopped chasing,
    >>went to the side of the road, and started rubbing its head on the
    >>ground. But the dogs have continued to chase despite that instance
    >>and further use of the Halt.
    >>
    >>I regard the owner's negligence in training and controlling his
    >>animals, which is leading towards the dogs being put down, as a far
    >>greater example of animal cruelty than ammonia, firecrackers, or a
    >>gunshot to the head.

    >
    >No, ammonia is still cruel. There is no doubt the owner is in the wrong hear,
    >however, you are too. Instead of escalating to chemical warfare, you should
    >call the animal control authorities. Perhaps they can help the dogs find a
    >better owner.


    In other words, let the government take care of it, once again. Man,
    I hate the socialist agenda. How about the Citizen remove the threat
    by taking personal responsibility?

    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  17. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:19:13 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:11:55 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 08:04:27 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> from
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>But are you saying that ammonia would harm the dog? Is it not equivalent to
    >>>>skunk spray (only less oily)? I'd doubt that 1/2 clear ammonia and water
    >>>>would harm the dog, but I don't know - perhaps you have some experience?
    >>>
    >>>Test it on your own eyes first.
    >>>
    >>>Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.

    >>
    >>Pretty hostile response on your part to a simple question. Why so hostile
    >>to fellow bikers than to growling snarling animals with apparent bad
    >>intentions? I wouldn't blame anyone that had been previously bitten for
    >>spraying a dog (or -that- dog) - would you?

    >
    >It's not hostile. If you want to find out the effects of ammonia on eyes, then
    >use your own. Why torture a dog?
    >
    >Deliberately using a chemical known to blind is cruelty to animals. Yes, I can
    >blame people who break the law, previously bitten or not.


    Law? You keep talking about laws and authorities like they are the
    answer to the problem.
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  18. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:31:15 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    <snippled to save everyone's sanity>

    >But it's true, eveyone seems to side with the dogs; dogs are completely
    >faultless, "if you get bit it's your fault for being in the wrong place at
    >the wrong time", "he's harmless", "he's never done that before", "my dog
    >would never bite you" (while watching the dog chow down on your leg).
    >Perhaps we -should- spray the owners. ;-)


    That is exactly what the owner said to the policeman as he was taking
    their dog away for having attacked me. That was in the US of course,
    and in the '60s I might add. "He's never done that before" became
    "yeah, and he'll never do it again."
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  19. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:12:56 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 20 Jun 2004 12:11:54 GMT, [email protected] (GABIKE) from AOL
    >http://www.aol.com wrote:
    >
    >>>Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying ammonia
    >>>on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
    >>>courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on a
    >>>chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to make
    >>>it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>>Kevan Smith
    >>>[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>What about cruelty to humans? Get your head out of your rear end.

    >
    >A dog chasing someone is not cruelty. It is usually instinct or play.


    Man, you just won't give up will you? "Usually" OK, fine. When its
    _not_ instinct or play, and an animal clearly wants to do you harm,
    tell us all Kevan, what do you do? Do you threaten to sue? Toss your
    attorney's business card as a warning? Site articles of the local
    civil code? I have a list and I'm going to compare it with your
    response. I'll bet I'm right.


    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  20. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:16:05 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email protected]>
    >from DCI HiNet wrote:
    >
    >>You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
    >>directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
    >>whatever is chasing you, and you.

    >
    >That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
    >would spray the ammonia on the dog.


    How do you know? If I appear to be an ass, apparently you're the only
    one who thinks so. Like I care. lol

    >>Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
    >>upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
    >>the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.

    >
    >A dingo ate your heart, apparently.


    I'm the ass, huh?

    >Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
    >riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
    >are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.


    Another thing you're so "sure" of, eh? I guess you could call
    literally throwing hundreds of dogs in a pit and dousing them with
    chemicals "humane" but that isn't my style. This is Asia, not Peoria.

    >Frankly, though, I think you are lying.


    Frankly I don't give a fuck what you think. If you're too stupid to
    actually be paying attention, that's your problem, not mine.

    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
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