Firecrackers!

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Karen M., Jun 19, 2004.

  1. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 18:15:12 GMT, "H. M. Leary"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:59:43 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email protected]>
    >> from DCI HiNet wrote:
    >>
    >> >You're making assumptions. What works best is firing the ammonia
    >> >directly down which puts a spot of foul smelling stuff between
    >> >whatever is chasing you, and you.

    >>
    >> That's BS. You're just trying to appear less an ass than you already do. You
    >> would spray the ammonia on the dog.
    >>
    >> >Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
    >> >upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
    >> >the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.

    >>
    >> A dingo ate your heart, apparently.
    >>
    >> Anyway, if you live in an area like that, you'd obviously be better off not
    >> riding your bike there. And, if the dogs are such a danger, I am sure there
    >> are organized efforts you can join to cull the population humanely.
    >>
    >> Frankly, though, I think you are lying.
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Kevan Smith
    >> [email protected]

    >
    >Mr. Klein lives in Taiwan, Ibelieve.


    Correct. It even says so in my sig. Amazing what one can learn from
    a sigline, isn't it? Its also more amazing what one fails to learn
    from informationn clearly presented (and I'm not referring to you Mr.
    Leary).

    >There, dog is a fine meal eaten by humans.


    I have a story about that. In Asia, its common to have a picture of
    the type of animal that a restaurant serves, like a chicken, duck or
    cow, for example. One day my wife and I were driving along and I
    suggested that we get some German Shepard for lunch as I pointed to a
    sign with a picture of that type of dog. She punched me in th arm and
    told me that was a guard dog training school!

    The Taiwanese do not eat dogs as do other Asian people (and some
    Africans). I have eaten many different animals in my travels around
    but never dog.

    >Only fair that a dog gets a chance at eating a humane....)
    >
    >What a beautiful day here on the east coast. Why am I stuck mowing the lawn,
    >triming the hedge cutting down a dead tree, etc etc etc..
    >
    >I could be RIDING!


    Can it wait until tomorrow? lol
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     


  2. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:23:50 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 13:18:48 -0500, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying

    >>ammonia
    >>> on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
    >>> courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on

    >>a
    >>> chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to

    >>make
    >>> it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.

    >>
    >>> Kevan Smith

    >>
    >>Two things: One, people ARE allowed to defend themselves against attackers,
    >>whether they be humans or animals. and, Two, people are not bound by what
    >>one Kevan Smith thinks is or is not acceptable self defense.

    >
    >Well, no shit. I'm glad you stepped up on your teensy sopabox to advocate
    >torturing dogs.


    You don't need to ride Kevan. You get enough exercise jumping to
    conclusions.

    >BTW, spraying a chasing dog with ammonia is NOT self defense.


    <yawn> Burn me a CD.

    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  3. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:16:05 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Frankly, though, I think you are lying.


    That's usually what stupid people say when confronted by a statement
    they cannot imagine to be true. Smart people check the facts and then
    make rebuttals, if possible.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html
    OMG, they mention Taiwan, and its a US news story!

    http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2000/08/05/0000046511
    "Three years ago the stray population was estimated at 75,000, and
    last year it was 54,000, he said. This year the number is roughly
    18,000."

    http://www.lonelocust.com/travel/TaiwanSingapore/Taiwan3.htm
    " First we caught the [Taipei Rapid Transit], then we took off on
    foot. We were moving at a rapid clip, but then a pack of wild dogs set
    upon us. We left Jeff for dead, fighting off the dogs." - written by
    private Citizens in Taiwan.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That's enough to establish the point. If you are interested you may
    do your own search.
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  4. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:06:30 -0500, "di" <[email protected]> from Cox
    Communications wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
    >> yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
    >> merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for

    >play,
    >> not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I

    >have
    >> seen it work many times.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Kevan Smith
    >>

    >
    >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
    >chase or bite?


    No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  5. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 07:55:29 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email protected]>
    from DCI HiNet wrote:

    >In other words, let the government take care of it, once again. Man,
    >I hate the socialist agenda. How about the Citizen remove the threat
    >by taking personal responsibility?



    You are a right wing kook.

    *plonk*


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  6. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On 2004-06-20, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On 20 Jun 2004 12:11:54 GMT, [email protected] (GABIKE) from AOL
    > http://www.aol.com wrote:
    >
    >>>Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see anyone spraying ammonia
    >>>on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the case through the
    >>>courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need to spray ammonia on a
    >>>chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the animal enough to make
    >>>it give up the chase. I have seen this work time after time.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>>Kevan Smith
    >>>[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>What about cruelty to humans? Get your head out of your rear end.

    >
    > A dog chasing someone is not cruelty. It is usually instinct or play.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Kevan Smith
    > [email protected]


    And a child throwing rocks/snowballs at cars is not malicious. It is usually play.

    It is wrong though. In the same way that a dog chasing a bicyclist is
    wrong. And it should be discouraged. If the owner is not willing to take
    responsibility for the safety (whether the threat is real or not) of
    others, I have no problem correcting the dog myself.

    I agree with Kevan that ammonia is probably inappropriate, but a teaspoon
    of vinegar in a pint of water will be sufficiently unpleasant to deter the
    dog while having a minimal danger of causing serious health problems for
    the dog.

    Mark

    - --
    Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

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  7. di

    di Guest

    "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message > >>
    > >
    > >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely

    a
    > >chase or bite?

    >
    > No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.



    I can read and also reason, if your water plan doesn't work you probably
    won't have time for another option. I prefer to use a more effective way to
    stop them before getting attacked. I know a group of cyclist that were
    always harassed by a very mean dog, several were bitten and nothing would
    stop this dog. It happened in rural area where local law enforcement could
    or would not do anything. They would try to time their encounter by luring
    him to run across the road in front of oncoming traffic. Personally, I
    would have just shot him.

    I love dogs, have 3 now and have had dogs all my life, but I have no use
    for a dog that will bite or attack people. They are not a creature you
    can reason with, they understand force.
     
  8. Chris B.

    Chris B. Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:31:15 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    <snip>

    >But it's true, eveyone seems to side with the dogs; dogs are completely
    >faultless, "if you get bit it's your fault for being in the wrong place at
    >the wrong time", "he's harmless", "he's never done that before", "my dog
    >would never bite you" (while watching the dog chow down on your leg).
    >Perhaps we -should- spray the owners. ;-)


    To be fair, it is a little hard to fault the dog when you consider
    how incredibly socially retarded the average dog owner is.
     
  9. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:58:57 GMT, Mark Mitchell
    <[email protected]> from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:

    >
    >And a child throwing rocks/snowballs at cars is not malicious. It is usually play.
    >
    >It is wrong though. In the same way that a dog chasing a bicyclist is
    >wrong. And it should be discouraged. If the owner is not willing to take
    >responsibility for the safety (whether the threat is real or not) of
    >others, I have no problem correcting the dog myself.


    A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little choice in the matter.
    If the instinct is strong enough, no amount of your "correction" is going to
    stop it. The way we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive
    directions.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  10. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:41:58 -0500, "di" <[email protected]> from Cox
    Communications wrote:

    >"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message > >>
    >> >
    >> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely

    >a
    >> >chase or bite?

    >>
    >> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.

    >
    >
    >I can read and also reason, if your water plan doesn't work you probably
    >won't have time for another option. I prefer to use a more effective way to
    >stop them before getting attacked.


    You likely won't be attacked if the water plan fails, which I have never seen
    happen. But, if you want a plan B, I suggest improving your sprint.

    I'll say it again: If I ever see someone spraying ammonia on a dog, I'm
    calling the cops and reporting it and seeing it through to the end. Obviously,
    _you_ don't have to worry about that.





    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  11. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Michael J. Klein <[email protected]> writes:

    > Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
    > upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
    > the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.
    > Water doesn't "shock" wild animals very much.


    Yes, feral dog packs are something else altogether, and nothing I'd
    want to encounter (although i have seen them from a distance, chasing
    deer down.) A pack of dogs can be so overwhelming, I wouldn't know
    whether water, ammonia, firecrackers or small arms would afford
    much of a defense from them.

    A couple of decades ago, somebody had the bright idea of
    setting some 'wild' Black Forest boars loose in the upper
    Fraser Valley in British Columbia. They tree'd a fair
    number of hikers. I don't think squirting stuff at them
    would have backed them off, either. Except maybe
    barbecue sauce ;-)


    cheers,
    Tom


    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD
    Above address is just a spam midden.
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  12. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:48:48 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 07:55:29 +0800, Michael J. Klein <[email protected]>
    >from DCI HiNet wrote:
    >
    >>In other words, let the government take care of it, once again. Man,
    >>I hate the socialist agenda. How about the Citizen remove the threat
    >>by taking personal responsibility?

    >
    >
    >You are a right wing kook.
    >
    >*plonk*


    That is some political slur. I do not involve myself in politics
    because of people like you.
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  13. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:41:58 -0500, "di" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message > >>
    >> >
    >> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely

    >a
    >> >chase or bite?

    >>
    >> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.

    >
    >
    >I can read and also reason, if your water plan doesn't work you probably
    >won't have time for another option. I prefer to use a more effective way to
    >stop them before getting attacked. I know a group of cyclist that were
    >always harassed by a very mean dog, several were bitten and nothing would
    >stop this dog. It happened in rural area where local law enforcement could
    >or would not do anything. They would try to time their encounter by luring
    >him to run across the road in front of oncoming traffic. Personally, I
    >would have just shot him.
    >
    >I love dogs, have 3 now and have had dogs all my life, but I have no use
    >for a dog that will bite or attack people. They are not a creature you
    >can reason with, they understand force.


    Not to mention that, if previously domesticated, they have no fear of
    humans whatsoever and are even more dangerous that any indigenous
    animal.

    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  14. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:24:06 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:41:58 -0500, "di" <[email protected]> from Cox
    >Communications wrote:
    >
    >>"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message > >>
    >>> >
    >>> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely

    >>a
    >>> >chase or bite?
    >>>
    >>> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.

    >>
    >>
    >>I can read and also reason, if your water plan doesn't work you probably
    >>won't have time for another option. I prefer to use a more effective way to
    >>stop them before getting attacked.

    >
    >You likely won't be attacked if the water plan fails, which I have never seen
    >happen. But, if you want a plan B, I suggest improving your sprint.
    >
    >I'll say it again: If I ever see someone spraying ammonia on a dog, I'm
    >calling the cops and reporting it and seeing it through to the end. Obviously,
    >_you_ don't have to worry about that.


    Neither do I Kevan. People don't rely on cops here - they take care
    of their own business (a concept foreign to socialists).

    As difficult as this may seem to you Kevan, no one requires your
    permission or approval. No one.

    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  15. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:21:53 -0500, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:58:57 GMT, Mark Mitchell
    ><[email protected]> from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>And a child throwing rocks/snowballs at cars is not malicious. It is usually play.
    >>
    >>It is wrong though. In the same way that a dog chasing a bicyclist is
    >>wrong. And it should be discouraged. If the owner is not willing to take
    >>responsibility for the safety (whether the threat is real or not) of
    >>others, I have no problem correcting the dog myself.

    >
    >A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little choice in the matter.
    >If the instinct is strong enough, no amount of your "correction" is going to
    >stop it. The way we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive
    >directions.


    That goes right along with the other socialist agenda - that one's
    sexual orientation is what it is, and that peple shouldn't be forced
    to accept other's *judgements* but left to their own instinct.

    So, we let dogs bite people, and pedophiles abuse children, right?

    Kevan, I have come to the inalterable conclusion that you are gay.
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  16. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:42:53 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > Michael J. Klein <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
    >> upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
    >> the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.
    >> Water doesn't "shock" wild animals very much.

    >
    >Yes, feral dog packs are something else altogether, and nothing I'd
    >want to encounter (although i have seen them from a distance, chasing
    >deer down.) A pack of dogs can be so overwhelming, I wouldn't know
    >whether water, ammonia, firecrackers or small arms would afford
    >much of a defense from them.


    I snapped a pic of some once, roaming the streets in south Taiwan (I
    just reviewed the photographs of that time, and I have 2 shots of the
    wild dogs). My host suggested that I get back in the car as the
    previous week an eldery woman had been killed and eaten by them.

    >A couple of decades ago, somebody had the bright idea of
    >setting some 'wild' Black Forest boars loose in the upper
    >Fraser Valley in British Columbia. They tree'd a fair
    >number of hikers. I don't think squirting stuff at them
    >would have backed them off, either. Except maybe
    >barbecue sauce ;-)


    hahaha! Dunno what they were thinking huh?

    Back when I lived in the US, I was walking my dog, who was a rescued
    animal. She was very nervous and didn't like to be approached by
    other dogs. One night it was pitch black (as it often is in NH) and I
    heard 2 things - growling and toenails on pavement - the neighbor's
    dog had gotten loose and was running towards my dog at full spee!. I
    had my right hand on my 9mm and was just about to draw when the dog
    suddenly stopped dead in its tracks and turned around.

    I can only conclude that Kevin must have willed it to be so.
    Michael J. Klein [email protected]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------
     
  17. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Kevan Smith <[email protected]> writes:

    > A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little choice in the matter.
    > If the instinct is strong enough, no amount of your "correction" is going to
    > stop it. The way we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive
    > directions.


    Chasing is one thing, but viciously attacking is quite another.
    whenever vicious pit bulls, rottweillers, etc attack, maul
    or even kill citizens, it gets a lot of media attention, and
    rightly so. Especially when the dogs' owners are named.

    But maybe all that media attention colours people's notions
    about dogs in general. Nothing like the media to stir up
    a seething pot of paranoia and fear. Sometimes (albeit
    relatively rarely), it's justified. But in most cases where
    vicious dogs have seriously hurt or even killed people, I
    doubt any sort of weaponry would have helped anyway, because
    it seems to me, most of those victims were in a state of panic,
    and generally have been children and smaller women. I'm not
    saying children and women are incapable of protecting
    themselves -- just that those seem to be the size of people
    that vicious dogs tend to go after.

    It helps to know the difference between a nippy li'l border
    collie that wants to herd you, a wolf-y type dog (like
    samoyeds and huskies) that just wants to tag along with you,
    and a bloodthirsty pair of pit bulls with a hair up their
    collective ass about killing something. And, as Ron Hardin
    previously mentioned, to be able to read their body language.
    Unfortunately, not everybody can, and I'm not so sure they
    should be expected to. I guess to some folks, a dog is a dog
    is a (vicious) dog.

    Anyways, screw weapons!


    klahowya,
    Tom

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    -- Powered by FreeBSD
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  18. >Anyways, screw weapons!

    A strange way to end what had been an intelligent and reasonable opinion about
    dogs, etc.


    James S. Prine
    http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/
     
  19. The Real Bev

    The Real Bev Guest

    Kevan Smith wrote:
    >
    > "di" <[email protected]> from Cox Communications wrote:
    > >>Kevan wrote:
    > >> You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
    > >> yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
    > >> merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
    > >> not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I
    > >> have seen it work many times.

    > >
    > >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
    > >chase or bite?

    >
    > No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.


    Somebody said he'd tried water, to no effect. What about mixing a
    LITTLE ammonia with the water? Or do you have a better suggestion? I'm
    not a fast rider, and just about any dog larger than a toy poodle can
    easily catch me. I can do a good enough angry bear imitation to scare
    off most dogs, but it doesn't work when I'm on my bike.

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    ---------------------------------------------
    "The primary purpose of any government entity
    is to employ the unemployable."
     
  20. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Aside from all the legal, ethical and moral questions, I question the
    practicality of carrying a water pistol loaded with ammonia. Ammonia
    evaporates, so how long would a batch remain effective? And, wouldn't you
    likely smell like old urine?

    Aside: I recall once while riding a motorcycle, having a "viscious" dog
    rush out after me. I could easily have outrun him, but, out of curiosity, I
    stopped. (I was wearing boots, so I wasn't too worried about being bitten.
    I spoiled the poor dog's game. He stopped, wagged his tail, growled, wagged
    his tail, sniffed my leg, and just didn't know what to do. As I rode off,
    he just watched me.
     
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