Firecrackers!

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Karen M., Jun 19, 2004.

  1. dan baker

    dan baker Guest

    Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
    > wrote:
    > >BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile,

    ....
    > Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
    > badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

    ----------

    I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.

    d
     


  2. Badger_South

    Badger_South Guest

    On 22 Jun 2004 08:53:09 -0700, [email protected] (dan baker) wrote:

    >Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
    >> wrote:
    >> >BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile,

    >...
    >> Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
    >> badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

    >----------
    >
    >I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.
    >
    >d


    mm-mm, cookies. ;-p

    -B
     
  3. On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:58:51 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >>> Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
    >>> badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.

    >>----------
    >>
    >>I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.


    Well, this is my last vet story. I worked at a veterinary clinic
    outside of Ft. Hood, Texas in my last year of high school. Some
    soldier back from Germany brought in a Schwartz Wald dachshund to
    board. This sucker was the size of a basset hound and solid muscle.

    I had to remove the bed platform made of 1x4s to clean the runs
    everyday. As I was leaving this dogs run, bedboard in hand, I heard a
    growl from behind. I turned just in time to see this dachshund launch
    himself straight at my chest. I hit him in mid-air with the bedboard,
    breaking it over his head and knocking him to the end of the run.
    Looked dead to me.

    Figuring I had killed him, I went and got the vet. By the time we got
    back to the runs, he was circling, pissed as hell, with blood coming
    from the top of his head. The vets decided that never mind the blood,
    the dog was healthy. I decided unilaterally to wash down everything
    with a hose from outside the run, dog and all.

    The owner wasn't bothered by the scar at all. The dog was orgiinally
    used as a hunter, going down holes after moderately sized vermin. The
    scar just joined the others already over his head and shoulders. So
    some dachshunds CAN take on the odd badger or two, German variety...

    Last dog I ever turned my back on, too.

    Curtis L. Russell
    And then there was the little dog that was an escape artist. Climbed
    over the fence into the mastiff's run and we never found hide nor hair
    of him again...
     
  4. Badger_South

    Badger_South Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:42:51 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:58:51 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>>> Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
    >>>> badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.
    >>>----------
    >>>
    >>>I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.


    Sure, cut out my jokes and attribute this part to me...

    >
    >Well, this is my last vet story.


    Aww-w. More, more - author, author. ;-p

    >I worked at a veterinary clinic
    >outside of Ft. Hood, Texas in my last year of high school.


    <Cool story snipped>

    >Last dog I ever turned my back on, too.


    Well just to balance out the discussion, I like dogs, my life was prob.
    saved (as a baby) by the dog that dragged me out of the street in front of
    my house, dogs like me. and I own a dog. (Jack Russell mix).

    [There's just something primitive that comes up when I'm on a peaceful bike
    ride and get chased by snarling snapping things. (Fortunately the odd
    "Chelydra" I can out-run.)]

    -B

    >
    >Curtis L. Russell
    >And then there was the little dog that was an escape artist. Climbed
    >over the fence into the mastiff's run and we never found hide nor hair
    >of him again...


    Youse looked for hairs and fibres? ;->
     
  5. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:29 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> from The
    Esoteric c0wz Society wrote:

    >Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
    >badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger. Too
    >bad, because I could actually enjoy these dogs that way, and (get
    >ready for Kevan to really boil over) I'd love to go hunting and
    >shoot something!


    I grew up hunting and fishing. I gave it up as a personal decision. I don't
    object to it for other people until they cross the line of treating game
    animals inhumanely. I have no respect for people who bait fields, release game
    in closed areas for a so-called "big game hunt," or any number of dubious
    acts. It pollutes the sport.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  6. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:12:41 -0700, The Real Bev <[email protected]> from
    wrote:

    >Kevan Smith wrote:
    >>
    >> The Real Bev <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Kevan Smith wrote:
    >> >> "di" <[email protected]> from Cox Communications wrote:
    >> >> >>Kevan wrote:
    >> >> >> You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
    >> >> >> yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
    >> >> >> merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
    >> >> >> not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I
    >> >> >> have seen it work many times.
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
    >> >> >chase or bite?
    >> >>
    >> >> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.
    >> >
    >> >Somebody said he'd tried water, to no effect. What about mixing a
    >> >LITTLE ammonia with the water? Or do you have a better suggestion?

    >>
    >> Ammonia eats away flesh. It's a caustic solution. That's why it blinds. Even a
    >> little bit is harmful.

    >
    >What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
    >windows? Do you know anybody who does? I once (yeah, stupid, I know)
    >sprayed myself in the eye with dryer fabric-softening spray. It took
    >several days for the blur to disappear. Would Windex have been more
    >damaging?


    Likely so.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  7. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:05:59 GMT, Mark Mitchell
    <[email protected]> from BellSouth Internet Service wrote:

    >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >Hash: SHA1
    >
    >On 2004-06-21, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:16:17 GMT, Mark Mitchell
    >><[email protected]> from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:
    >>
    >>>I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.
    >>>
    >>>A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that negative reinforcement
    >>>(correction) is inappropriate. Meditate on the primary defence of skunks
    >>>and porcupines and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
    >>>stop an instinctive behavior.

    >>
    >> instinct remains. In terms of the chasing instinct, your one spray with the
    >> ammonia bottle would be enough to blind and maim the dog, but it's not nearly
    >> enough training time to change the instinctual behavior.

    >
    >Kevan, please keep track of who you're talking to. I defy you to find any
    >post of mine in the last several days where I even implied that I approve
    >of spraying any living creature with ammonia.


    Joinign this argument the way you did, that is the exact practice you are
    defending. That is the "negative reinforcement" method that started the
    discussion.


    --
    Kevan Smith
    [email protected]
     
  8. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:29 -0400,
    <[email protected]>, Rick Onanian
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
    >wrote:
    >>BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile, maybe just
    >>bury a rabbit carcass, and put them to work digging it up.

    >
    >I love it! Great idea. Won't work due to the well-manicured yard
    >(and I'm not the owner of said yard), but maybe I can come up with
    >something.


    Teach them to hunt moles and gophers.
    Hire 'em out as varmint control.
    Let them earn their kibbles and beer.
    --
    zk
     
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    Hash: SHA1

    On 2004-06-22, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:05:59 GMT, Mark Mitchell
    ><[email protected]> from BellSouth Internet Service wrote:
    >
    >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >>On 2004-06-21, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:16:17 GMT, Mark Mitchell
    >>><[email protected]> from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.
    >>>>
    >>>>A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that negative reinforcement
    >>>>(correction) is inappropriate. Meditate on the primary defence of skunks
    >>>>and porcupines and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
    >>>>stop an instinctive behavior.
    >>>
    >>> instinct remains. In terms of the chasing instinct, your one spray with the
    >>> ammonia bottle would be enough to blind and maim the dog, but it's not nearly
    >>> enough training time to change the instinctual behavior.

    >>
    >>Kevan, please keep track of who you're talking to. I defy you to find any
    >>post of mine in the last several days where I even implied that I approve
    >>of spraying any living creature with ammonia.

    >
    > Joinign this argument the way you did, that is the exact practice you are
    > defending. That is the "negative reinforcement" method that started the
    > discussion.
    >

    Beg to differ, sir. I do feel that, in some cases, spraying a chasing dog
    with an unpleasant liquid is appropriate (I believe I suggested a dilute
    solution of vinegar and water), I have never advocated or defended the use
    of ammonia.

    Perhaps next time before you put words in my mouth, you might want to look
    to see what I've actually said.

    Mark

    - --
    Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

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  10. Mike Baron

    Mike Baron Guest

    The Real Bev wrote:

    >
    > What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
    > windows? Do you know anybody who does? I once (yeah, stupid, I know)
    > sprayed myself in the eye with dryer fabric-softening spray. It took
    > several days for the blur to disappear. Would Windex have been more
    > damaging?
    >


    Having gotten windex in my eyes, as well as orange cleaner, neither one
    required hospitilization. My vision is as good as it ever was(being a
    welder I have poor vision anyway), and was unaffected by these products
    except for the slight watering in my eyes that they caused. I had a
    mild stinging for about 10 minutes.

    No worse than getting smoke in your eyes.
     
  11. The Real Bev

    The Real Bev Guest

    Zoot Katz wrote:
    >
    > The Real Bev <[email protected]> wrote, of ammonia:
    >
    > >What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
    > >windows?

    >
    > Did you ever spray that stuff on emerging carpenter ants?
    > Kills 'em quicker than than Black Flag and much easier to clean up.


    Doesn't work worth shit on ordinary black/grease/sugar ants. The
    cohabitant of a friend was very anti-insecticide, resulting in ants even
    in the damn refrigerator. She figured that Windex wouldn't violate his
    animalitarian instincts so we spent a lot of time spraying the damn
    things with it before the guests arrived. Damn ants just swam around in
    it until we squashed 'em with a sponge. Nothing like ants in the
    refrigerator to gross somebody out.

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
    Vampireware; n, a project capable of sucking the lifeblood
    out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it,
    which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless
    refuses to die. -- Trygve Lode
     
  12. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    dan baker wrote:

    >Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile,
    >>>

    >...
    >
    >>Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking them
    >>badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat a badger.
    >>

    >----------
    >
    >I think the idea is that a badger would probably eat the DOGS.
    >
    >d
    >

    Ya gotta remember: if daschunds were bred to be badger hounds, they were
    bred for the European badger. Our N.American badger is a pit bull
    compared to those. If you were to send them after a badger, he may
    really silence those noisy dogs!
    Bernie
    <watched a lot of Knowledge Network>
     
  13. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    The Real Bev <[email protected]> writes:

    Y'know those sticky fly strips that pull out of a
    container like a pastic film cannister?

    Just lay one of those down on the floor, between under
    the kitchen sink and the fridge (that's where those
    tiny little apartment ants like to track.) Don't step
    on it, though.

    And if you're ever plagued with mice, stuff steel wool
    around every pipe or drain that comes through a wall.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  14. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    The Real Bev wrote:

    >Zoot Katz wrote:
    >
    >>The Real Bev <[email protected]> wrote, of ammonia:
    >>
    >>>What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you clean your
    >>>windows?
    >>>

    >>Did you ever spray that stuff on emerging carpenter ants?
    >>Kills 'em quicker than than Black Flag and much easier to clean up.
    >>

    >
    >Doesn't work worth shit on ordinary black/grease/sugar ants. The
    >cohabitant of a friend was very anti-insecticide, resulting in ants even
    >in the damn refrigerator. She figured that Windex wouldn't violate his
    >animalitarian instincts so we spent a lot of time spraying the damn
    >things with it before the guests arrived. Damn ants just swam around in
    >it until we squashed 'em with a sponge. Nothing like ants in the
    >refrigerator to gross somebody out.
    >

    Hell, I've lived in downtown Toronto. Little ants in ye fridge would be
    ignored next to the lovely big brown cockroaches everywhere. They
    useta freak me a bit...
    Bernie
     
  15. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> writes:

    > And I worked at a vet for three years and have owned a lot of dogs
    > myself. I know dogs better than most - I'm one of those people that
    > they call a dog person, where even unfriendly dogs come up to me
    > wagging their tails - but the only people worse than those that know
    > nothing about dogs are those that assume they can read every dog that
    > comes up the pike.


    Human beans are just as readable (or unreadable.) I agree
    it's a mistake to make ridiculous presumptions. But most
    of the dogs I've encountered have really appreciated being
    regarded with due respect, and have responded in kind. That
    includes not bothering them with a bunch of unwelcome attention.

    > I've had my share of stitches from dogs that both I
    > and the vets misread (actually both thumbs have scars up their side
    > from 30 plus years ago). And some large breeds are known for making no
    > overt sign until they strike.


    But how deeply were you incursing into their personal spaces?
    Y'know, same as how people don't like other people standing
    or sidling-up too close to them, like on a crowded bus or subway.
    Or poking fingers, or making other such intrusive gestures at them.
    Or even approaching too closely when they're gnawing on a delicious
    soup bone that's all their own.

    mmmm ... soup bone.

    Anyhow, a vet clinic isn't a place where dogs feel comfortable.
    It's not the same as out in the wide-open.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  16. On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:11:44 -0700, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
    wrote:

    >But how deeply were you incursing into their personal spaces?
    >Y'know, same as how people don't like other people standing
    >or sidling-up too close to them, like on a crowded bus or subway.


    Naive. Some breeds, especially herd and flock defenders as opposed to
    herders, were bred to be silent killers, and expected to handle
    anything up to and including European wolves on their own. For some
    reason, the native Japanese large rural breeds seem to have a lot of
    them, as well as EastEuropean native herd dogs. These suckers will
    chase silently and close with one purpose - waiting for signs and
    signals is not the way to handle these animals (OTOH, I'll admit that
    if you are being chased by one of these 70-120 pound breeds, I don't
    have a lot of solutions. Tossing your ride companions to them and keep
    booking is the most effective, if a touch mean spirited.)

    The basic problem is people buying these animals and putting them in
    the wrong place. A boxer in an apartment with furniture that is not
    bottom heavy is a bad idea. An Akita, even a socialized one, in a
    place where there are a lot of strange people and animals is also not
    a good idea. Any free ranging animal in the open is not only a bad
    idea, it is illegal in most states in the U.S.

    Anyway, I was paid to hold the animals. If the animal went a bit wild,
    I was paid to stand there until all the 'civilians' were out of the
    way. My worst scars were because the owner of a rather nice (normally)
    German Shepherd refused to leave the room.

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
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