first bench meet

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by [email protected], Mar 25, 2005.

  1. John Hanson

    John Hanson Guest

    On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:35:53 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    misc.fitness.weights:

    >On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:19:03 -0600, John Hanson
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:40:33 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    >>misc.fitness.weights:
    >>
    >>>On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:06:00 -0600, [email protected] (Hobbes)
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:49:12 -0600, [email protected] (Hobbes)
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> >In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>> >[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:08:48 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>> >>
    >>>>> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>> >> >news:[email protected]
    >>>>> >> >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:11:34 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >>><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>> >> >>>news:eek:[email protected]
    >>>>> >> >>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:58:15 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>> >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>> >> >>>>
    >>>>> >> >>>>>http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsletter/05/features/features.html
    >>>>> >> >>>>>
    >>>>> >> >>>>>Agrees with what I've heard. First attempt should be something
    >>>>> >> >>>>>you've
    >>>>> >> >>>>>tripled in the gym, second should be something you're still pretty
    >>>>> >> >>>>>sure
    >>>>> >> >>>>>of getting, often a slight PR if training and taper has been going
    >>>>> >> >>>>>well.
    >>>>> >> >>>>
    >>>>> >> >>>> Thanx Steve
    >>>>> >> >>>
    >>>>> >> >>>No problem. In the two meets I've done, it's the approach I've used
    >>>>> >> >>>and
    >>>>> >> >>>I went 8 for 9 both times so it seems about right to me.
    >>>>> >> >>>
    >>>>> >> >>>-S-
    >>>>> >> >>>http://www.kbnj.com
    >>>>> >> >>
    >>>>> >> >> What about spotters? The meets supply their own, right? One for each
    >>>>> >> >> side of the bar?
    >>>>> >> >
    >>>>> >> >The meets I've been at have supplied more than enough spotters, but for
    >>>>> >> >bench, a lifter often prefers to supply his own person to take the
    >>>>> >> >center position for hand-off if that's possible.
    >>>>> >> >
    >>>>> >> >-S-
    >>>>> >>
    >>>>> >> Why is one person in the middle better than one at each end? I was
    >>>>> >> spotting my friend today and he did worse with me spotting than by
    >>>>> >> unracking it himself. If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    >>>>> >> requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    >>>>> >> lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    >>>>> >> with a 380 lb bar.
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> >I've done a few world meets and actually been requested to give the hand
    >>>>> >off by some lifters attempting records. (At CPU/IPF meets you can't have
    >>>>> >your own guy do the hand off.)
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> >I've been told it makes a difference. I've also done hand offs for lifters
    >>>>> >doing over 600 lbs. You don't have to take all the weight, obviously.
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> >What I try and do is get the bar to the perfect position for the lifter -
    >>>>> >normally out over their chest - and then let the bar go in such a way that
    >>>>> >it feels light for the lifter. So I take as much weight off as I can, get
    >>>>> >the bar to where the lifter wants it, and then let the remainder of the
    >>>>> >weight drop onto the lifter gradually - I don't just 'plonk' the bar onto
    >>>>> >them.
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> >It can depend on the lifter, but with a 400 or so bench I felt the hand
    >>>>> >off could be worth 10-15 lbs for me.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Interesting Keith. You feel one guy in the middle can be better than
    >>>>> one guy at each end?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What are the critical stats/factors for one guy doing a hand off to
    >>>>> someone benching 380? Should the spotter be able to DL and/or Good
    >>>>> Morning a certain amount? My training partner uses the top pin on the
    >>>>> bench. I'm 5'10" Should I be standing on an elevated platform?
    >>>>> (I was.) If so, how high should the platform be? Exactly how are you
    >>>>> positioned to help get the bar over the lifter's chest and then
    >>>>> gradually release the remainder of the weight onto the lifter?
    >>>>
    >>>>I think it isn't the amount lifted, but giving it to the person in the
    >>>>right position and then letting the weight onto the person smoothly. The
    >>>>two people never give it to you perfectly evenly. I've used two people in
    >>>>a meet if the guy in the back was crappy because at least then you have a
    >>>>chance to get the bar over your chest. In a meet you want to set up well
    >>>>down the bench so you don't worry about bouncing the uprights.
    >>>>
    >>>>But if you have someone good I think it is more a matter of the person
    >>>>being smooth and reading your lift. On the first attempt I try and see how
    >>>>the person lifts and remember so I can get the bar into the right groove
    >>>>for them. I don't think there is a requirement for being able to do so
    >>>>much weight, but obviously a strong guy has an easier time getting the bar
    >>>>there.
    >>>
    >>>I'd like to see an online tutorial, video, or jpg sequence
    >>>illustrating the "spot lift."
    >>>
    >>>What are the biomechanics of this lift? Knees slightly bent, mixed
    >>>grip, back slightly forward, gaze always downward, etc.?
    >>>
    >>>How high should the spotter's platform be? How tall should the
    >>>spotter be relative to the pin the bar is resting on?
    >>>
    >>>How should the bencher and the spotter be positioned relative to each
    >>>other so that the spotter doesn't have to move the bar too far forward
    >>>to get it into the right position for the controlled descent?
    >>>
    >>>I'm assuming the bencher is always helping (unracking the bar and
    >>>bringing it to the correct position) and that the spotter is not
    >>>unracking the bar and bringing it to the correct position and then
    >>>gradually lowering it to the bencher's outstretched hands all by
    >>>himself.
    >>>
    >>>I ask these questions because I'm the spotter for a guy who wants to
    >>>max out at 275-280 at a meet two weeks away. We work together in
    >>>unracking the bar and getting it to the correct position for him, but
    >>>his performance is a lot worse when I "help" him. (I'm not
    >>>overlooking the fact that he started pausing a split-second longer at
    >>>bottom when I started helping him unrack and position the bar. (He
    >>>never "bounces" it.) The total time under tension is doubtless
    >>>longer. My sense is that I'm not giving him all that much help
    >>>unracking the bar and that my assistance is negligible as the bar
    >>>moves forward (away from me) to get it into the correct pposition for
    >>>him.
    >>>
    >>>I don't get the "give it to him smoothly" part although that sounds
    >>>great. How do you do this and tell when you have and haven't done
    >>>this right?

    >>
    >>Practice makes perfect. You should also have some idea from when
    >>people give you a "pick".

    >
    >Please explain.


    Hand off for people and get hand offs from people. Eventually, you'll
    get good at it. It isn't rocket science. Just do it.
     


  2. On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:50:31 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:35:53 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    >misc.fitness.weights:
    >
    >>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:19:03 -0600, John Hanson
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:40:33 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    >>>misc.fitness.weights:
    >>>
    >>>>On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:06:00 -0600, [email protected] (Hobbes)
    >>>>wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>>[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:49:12 -0600, [email protected] (Hobbes)
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> >In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>>> >[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>>> >
    >>>>>> >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:08:48 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>> >>
    >>>>>> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>> >> >news:[email protected]
    >>>>>> >> >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:11:34 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>> >> >>
    >>>>>> >> >>><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>> >> >>>news:eek:[email protected]
    >>>>>> >> >>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:58:15 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>>> >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>> >> >>>>
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsletter/05/features/features.html
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>Agrees with what I've heard. First attempt should be something
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>you've
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>tripled in the gym, second should be something you're still pretty
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>sure
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>of getting, often a slight PR if training and taper has been going
    >>>>>> >> >>>>>well.
    >>>>>> >> >>>>
    >>>>>> >> >>>> Thanx Steve
    >>>>>> >> >>>
    >>>>>> >> >>>No problem. In the two meets I've done, it's the approach I've used
    >>>>>> >> >>>and
    >>>>>> >> >>>I went 8 for 9 both times so it seems about right to me.
    >>>>>> >> >>>
    >>>>>> >> >>>-S-
    >>>>>> >> >>>http://www.kbnj.com
    >>>>>> >> >>
    >>>>>> >> >> What about spotters? The meets supply their own, right? One for each
    >>>>>> >> >> side of the bar?
    >>>>>> >> >
    >>>>>> >> >The meets I've been at have supplied more than enough spotters, but for
    >>>>>> >> >bench, a lifter often prefers to supply his own person to take the
    >>>>>> >> >center position for hand-off if that's possible.
    >>>>>> >> >
    >>>>>> >> >-S-
    >>>>>> >>
    >>>>>> >> Why is one person in the middle better than one at each end? I was
    >>>>>> >> spotting my friend today and he did worse with me spotting than by
    >>>>>> >> unracking it himself. If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    >>>>>> >> requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    >>>>>> >> lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    >>>>>> >> with a 380 lb bar.
    >>>>>> >
    >>>>>> >I've done a few world meets and actually been requested to give the hand
    >>>>>> >off by some lifters attempting records. (At CPU/IPF meets you can't have
    >>>>>> >your own guy do the hand off.)
    >>>>>> >
    >>>>>> >I've been told it makes a difference. I've also done hand offs for lifters
    >>>>>> >doing over 600 lbs. You don't have to take all the weight, obviously.
    >>>>>> >
    >>>>>> >What I try and do is get the bar to the perfect position for the lifter -
    >>>>>> >normally out over their chest - and then let the bar go in such a way that
    >>>>>> >it feels light for the lifter. So I take as much weight off as I can, get
    >>>>>> >the bar to where the lifter wants it, and then let the remainder of the
    >>>>>> >weight drop onto the lifter gradually - I don't just 'plonk' the bar onto
    >>>>>> >them.
    >>>>>> >
    >>>>>> >It can depend on the lifter, but with a 400 or so bench I felt the hand
    >>>>>> >off could be worth 10-15 lbs for me.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Interesting Keith. You feel one guy in the middle can be better than
    >>>>>> one guy at each end?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> What are the critical stats/factors for one guy doing a hand off to
    >>>>>> someone benching 380? Should the spotter be able to DL and/or Good
    >>>>>> Morning a certain amount? My training partner uses the top pin on the
    >>>>>> bench. I'm 5'10" Should I be standing on an elevated platform?
    >>>>>> (I was.) If so, how high should the platform be? Exactly how are you
    >>>>>> positioned to help get the bar over the lifter's chest and then
    >>>>>> gradually release the remainder of the weight onto the lifter?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I think it isn't the amount lifted, but giving it to the person in the
    >>>>>right position and then letting the weight onto the person smoothly. The
    >>>>>two people never give it to you perfectly evenly. I've used two people in
    >>>>>a meet if the guy in the back was crappy because at least then you have a
    >>>>>chance to get the bar over your chest. In a meet you want to set up well
    >>>>>down the bench so you don't worry about bouncing the uprights.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>But if you have someone good I think it is more a matter of the person
    >>>>>being smooth and reading your lift. On the first attempt I try and see how
    >>>>>the person lifts and remember so I can get the bar into the right groove
    >>>>>for them. I don't think there is a requirement for being able to do so
    >>>>>much weight, but obviously a strong guy has an easier time getting the bar
    >>>>>there.
    >>>>
    >>>>I'd like to see an online tutorial, video, or jpg sequence
    >>>>illustrating the "spot lift."
    >>>>
    >>>>What are the biomechanics of this lift? Knees slightly bent, mixed
    >>>>grip, back slightly forward, gaze always downward, etc.?
    >>>>
    >>>>How high should the spotter's platform be? How tall should the
    >>>>spotter be relative to the pin the bar is resting on?
    >>>>
    >>>>How should the bencher and the spotter be positioned relative to each
    >>>>other so that the spotter doesn't have to move the bar too far forward
    >>>>to get it into the right position for the controlled descent?
    >>>>
    >>>>I'm assuming the bencher is always helping (unracking the bar and
    >>>>bringing it to the correct position) and that the spotter is not
    >>>>unracking the bar and bringing it to the correct position and then
    >>>>gradually lowering it to the bencher's outstretched hands all by
    >>>>himself.
    >>>>
    >>>>I ask these questions because I'm the spotter for a guy who wants to
    >>>>max out at 275-280 at a meet two weeks away. We work together in
    >>>>unracking the bar and getting it to the correct position for him, but
    >>>>his performance is a lot worse when I "help" him. (I'm not
    >>>>overlooking the fact that he started pausing a split-second longer at
    >>>>bottom when I started helping him unrack and position the bar. (He
    >>>>never "bounces" it.) The total time under tension is doubtless
    >>>>longer. My sense is that I'm not giving him all that much help
    >>>>unracking the bar and that my assistance is negligible as the bar
    >>>>moves forward (away from me) to get it into the correct pposition for
    >>>>him.
    >>>>
    >>>>I don't get the "give it to him smoothly" part although that sounds
    >>>>great. How do you do this and tell when you have and haven't done
    >>>>this right?
    >>>
    >>>Practice makes perfect. You should also have some idea from when
    >>>people give you a "pick".

    >>
    >>Please explain.

    >
    >Hand off for people and get hand offs from people. Eventually, you'll
    >get good at it. It isn't rocket science. Just do it.


    No it ain't. My confusion stems from the fact that I don't bench. No
    flats, inclines, or declines. Ever. (Well, I use Lifeline-USA's
    PowerPushup2 to do "benches," but that's hardly the same thing.)
    So I have no idea what it's like to be handed the bar. Of course, I
    could start, but I imagine I'd have to work up to being able to manage
    a decent weight before I could sound off on what's a good spot vs
    something else. I'm not going to start soon because I've temporarily
    cut out all presses due to a nagging shoulder problem. All I want to
    do is figure out how to set up for, and hand off the weight to, a
    friend who's getting ready for a local meet in under two weeks.
     
  3. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:08:48 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]
    >>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:11:34 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>news:eek:[email protected]
    >>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:58:15 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsletter/05/features/features.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Agrees with what I've heard. First attempt should be something
    >>>>>>you've
    >>>>>>tripled in the gym, second should be something you're still pretty
    >>>>>>sure
    >>>>>>of getting, often a slight PR if training and taper has been going
    >>>>>>well.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanx Steve
    >>>>
    >>>>No problem. In the two meets I've done, it's the approach I've used
    >>>>and
    >>>>I went 8 for 9 both times so it seems about right to me.
    >>>>
    >>>>-S-
    >>>>http://www.kbnj.com
    >>>
    >>> What about spotters? The meets supply their own, right? One for
    >>> each
    >>> side of the bar?

    >>
    >>The meets I've been at have supplied more than enough spotters, but
    >>for
    >>bench, a lifter often prefers to supply his own person to take the
    >>center position for hand-off if that's possible.
    >>
    >>-S-

    >
    > Why is one person in the middle better than one at each end? I was
    > spotting my friend today and he did worse with me spotting than by
    > unracking it himself. If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    > requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    > lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    > with a 380 lb bar.


    Boy, go to the in-laws for Easter and look what I find when I come back!

    At the meets I've been at, there have been *both* center hand-offs *and*
    spotters on either side. Two different things here - the former gives
    you the bar (or "helps you unrack the bar" might be a better
    description) and the latter are there to take the weight if you can't
    make the lift (either if the judge tells them to take it or you yourself
    tell them to). It's not an either/or proposition, at least it hasn't
    been for me. And there's no reason why the spotters can't help with the
    hand-off, but they would take their lead from the person in the center.
    I honestly couldn't tell you if I got the bar just by me unracking it
    with help from the center person or if the spotters also helped; I just
    don't remember.

    A good hand-off makes a world of difference - actually, a better way to
    put it is that a lousy hand-off can keep you from doing your best
    whereas a good one lets you focus on the business of performing the
    lift.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com
     
  4. John Hanson

    John Hanson Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:41:43 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    misc.fitness.weights:

    >On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:50:31 -0600, John Hanson
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:35:53 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    >>misc.fitness.weights:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:19:03 -0600, John Hanson
    >>><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:40:33 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    >>>>misc.fitness.weights:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:06:00 -0600, [email protected] (Hobbes)
    >>>>>wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>>>[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:49:12 -0600, [email protected] (Hobbes)
    >>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> >In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>>>> >[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>>>> >
    >>>>>>> >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:08:48 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>> >>
    >>>>>>> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> >> >news:[email protected]
    >>>>>>> >> >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:11:34 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>>>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>> >> >>
    >>>>>>> >> >>><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> >> >>>news:eek:[email protected]
    >>>>>>> >> >>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:58:15 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    >>>>>>> >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsletter/05/features/features.html
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>Agrees with what I've heard. First attempt should be something
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>you've
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>tripled in the gym, second should be something you're still pretty
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>sure
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>of getting, often a slight PR if training and taper has been going
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>>well.
    >>>>>>> >> >>>>
    >>>>>>> >> >>>> Thanx Steve
    >>>>>>> >> >>>
    >>>>>>> >> >>>No problem. In the two meets I've done, it's the approach I've used
    >>>>>>> >> >>>and
    >>>>>>> >> >>>I went 8 for 9 both times so it seems about right to me.
    >>>>>>> >> >>>
    >>>>>>> >> >>>-S-
    >>>>>>> >> >>>http://www.kbnj.com
    >>>>>>> >> >>
    >>>>>>> >> >> What about spotters? The meets supply their own, right? One for each
    >>>>>>> >> >> side of the bar?
    >>>>>>> >> >
    >>>>>>> >> >The meets I've been at have supplied more than enough spotters, but for
    >>>>>>> >> >bench, a lifter often prefers to supply his own person to take the
    >>>>>>> >> >center position for hand-off if that's possible.
    >>>>>>> >> >
    >>>>>>> >> >-S-
    >>>>>>> >>
    >>>>>>> >> Why is one person in the middle better than one at each end? I was
    >>>>>>> >> spotting my friend today and he did worse with me spotting than by
    >>>>>>> >> unracking it himself. If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    >>>>>>> >> requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    >>>>>>> >> lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    >>>>>>> >> with a 380 lb bar.
    >>>>>>> >
    >>>>>>> >I've done a few world meets and actually been requested to give the hand
    >>>>>>> >off by some lifters attempting records. (At CPU/IPF meets you can't have
    >>>>>>> >your own guy do the hand off.)
    >>>>>>> >
    >>>>>>> >I've been told it makes a difference. I've also done hand offs for lifters
    >>>>>>> >doing over 600 lbs. You don't have to take all the weight, obviously.
    >>>>>>> >
    >>>>>>> >What I try and do is get the bar to the perfect position for the lifter -
    >>>>>>> >normally out over their chest - and then let the bar go in such a way that
    >>>>>>> >it feels light for the lifter. So I take as much weight off as I can, get
    >>>>>>> >the bar to where the lifter wants it, and then let the remainder of the
    >>>>>>> >weight drop onto the lifter gradually - I don't just 'plonk' the bar onto
    >>>>>>> >them.
    >>>>>>> >
    >>>>>>> >It can depend on the lifter, but with a 400 or so bench I felt the hand
    >>>>>>> >off could be worth 10-15 lbs for me.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Interesting Keith. You feel one guy in the middle can be better than
    >>>>>>> one guy at each end?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> What are the critical stats/factors for one guy doing a hand off to
    >>>>>>> someone benching 380? Should the spotter be able to DL and/or Good
    >>>>>>> Morning a certain amount? My training partner uses the top pin on the
    >>>>>>> bench. I'm 5'10" Should I be standing on an elevated platform?
    >>>>>>> (I was.) If so, how high should the platform be? Exactly how are you
    >>>>>>> positioned to help get the bar over the lifter's chest and then
    >>>>>>> gradually release the remainder of the weight onto the lifter?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>I think it isn't the amount lifted, but giving it to the person in the
    >>>>>>right position and then letting the weight onto the person smoothly. The
    >>>>>>two people never give it to you perfectly evenly. I've used two people in
    >>>>>>a meet if the guy in the back was crappy because at least then you have a
    >>>>>>chance to get the bar over your chest. In a meet you want to set up well
    >>>>>>down the bench so you don't worry about bouncing the uprights.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>But if you have someone good I think it is more a matter of the person
    >>>>>>being smooth and reading your lift. On the first attempt I try and see how
    >>>>>>the person lifts and remember so I can get the bar into the right groove
    >>>>>>for them. I don't think there is a requirement for being able to do so
    >>>>>>much weight, but obviously a strong guy has an easier time getting the bar
    >>>>>>there.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I'd like to see an online tutorial, video, or jpg sequence
    >>>>>illustrating the "spot lift."
    >>>>>
    >>>>>What are the biomechanics of this lift? Knees slightly bent, mixed
    >>>>>grip, back slightly forward, gaze always downward, etc.?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>How high should the spotter's platform be? How tall should the
    >>>>>spotter be relative to the pin the bar is resting on?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>How should the bencher and the spotter be positioned relative to each
    >>>>>other so that the spotter doesn't have to move the bar too far forward
    >>>>>to get it into the right position for the controlled descent?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I'm assuming the bencher is always helping (unracking the bar and
    >>>>>bringing it to the correct position) and that the spotter is not
    >>>>>unracking the bar and bringing it to the correct position and then
    >>>>>gradually lowering it to the bencher's outstretched hands all by
    >>>>>himself.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I ask these questions because I'm the spotter for a guy who wants to
    >>>>>max out at 275-280 at a meet two weeks away. We work together in
    >>>>>unracking the bar and getting it to the correct position for him, but
    >>>>>his performance is a lot worse when I "help" him. (I'm not
    >>>>>overlooking the fact that he started pausing a split-second longer at
    >>>>>bottom when I started helping him unrack and position the bar. (He
    >>>>>never "bounces" it.) The total time under tension is doubtless
    >>>>>longer. My sense is that I'm not giving him all that much help
    >>>>>unracking the bar and that my assistance is negligible as the bar
    >>>>>moves forward (away from me) to get it into the correct pposition for
    >>>>>him.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I don't get the "give it to him smoothly" part although that sounds
    >>>>>great. How do you do this and tell when you have and haven't done
    >>>>>this right?
    >>>>
    >>>>Practice makes perfect. You should also have some idea from when
    >>>>people give you a "pick".
    >>>
    >>>Please explain.

    >>
    >>Hand off for people and get hand offs from people. Eventually, you'll
    >>get good at it. It isn't rocket science. Just do it.

    >
    >No it ain't. My confusion stems from the fact that I don't bench. No
    >flats, inclines, or declines. Ever. (Well, I use Lifeline-USA's
    >PowerPushup2 to do "benches," but that's hardly the same thing.)
    >So I have no idea what it's like to be handed the bar. Of course, I
    >could start, but I imagine I'd have to work up to being able to manage
    >a decent weight before I could sound off on what's a good spot vs
    >something else. I'm not going to start soon because I've temporarily
    >cut out all presses due to a nagging shoulder problem. All I want to
    >do is figure out how to set up for, and hand off the weight to, a
    >friend who's getting ready for a local meet in under two weeks.


    Then have someone else hand off to him.
     
  5. Will

    Will Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > On 26 Mar 2005 18:49:19 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >[email protected] wrote:
    > ><snip>
    > >
    > >> If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    > >> requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    > >> lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    > >> with a 380 lb bar.

    > >
    > >lol no you wouldn't want to try that i don't think...

    >
    > No way!
    >
    > As I said, my training partner was far more successful unracking the
    > bar himself than having me assist him in unracking it.
    > He thought it might be helpful to have me assist to get him used to
    > the feeling of being handed the bar. I'm not sure I agree. I imagine
    > being handed the bar in a lockout feels very different than being
    > given a small assist in unracking it. But I don't know anything about
    > all this. I don't bench and I've never observed a meet.


    Are you going to be handing off to him at the meet? Then just practice
    with him to do what feels right to him. If you're not handing off to
    him at the meet, don't worry about it. He always has the option to
    unrack the weight himself at the meet. Or, he can ask who the official
    liftoff person is and/or find a friendly stranger in the warmup room and
    get a couple practice liftoffs with his actual liftoff man during
    warmups.

    I've lifted off for guys benching into the low 500 lbs, which is about
    what I deadlift. I use an alternate grip and make sure to let go of the
    bar slowly and gently when in position for the lifter to start.

    Before the lift, I stand straddling the lifters forhead and once he has
    his hands gripping the bar, I begin to pull the slack out of the bar -
    pulling not quite hard enough to lift the weight off the racks of my own
    accord, but so that as soon as the lifter pushes the weight it comes up
    easily. Then I guide it up and out over his preferred spot over his
    chest, still trying to lift, like Keith says, about 40 lbs less than the
    total weight on the bar. Then let go gently being sure not to impart
    any spin on the bar once it's in position. Then (at a meet) I quickly
    back away and off to the side so that the head referee has an
    unobstructed view of the lift.

    From a lifter's perspective, I find it better if my spotter imparts too
    little help rather than too much. I've had spotters who try to liftoff
    the entire weight even when it is near the maximum weight they can
    handle, leading to a jerky liftoff and sometimes even worse, pulling the
    bar up and partially out of my hands or pulling me out of position.
    Slow and steady the whole way is highly preferred, even if it means more
    wieght being lifted off by the lifter.
     
  6. On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:08:54 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    >Then have someone else hand off to him.


    He can do that anytime he likes. No problem for me.
    He's not complaining about my hand off. I'm just trying to learn
    something.
     
  7. John Hanson

    John Hanson Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 02:54:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    misc.fitness.weights:

    >On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:08:54 -0600, John Hanson
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Then have someone else hand off to him.

    >
    >He can do that anytime he likes. No problem for me.
    >He's not complaining about my hand off. I'm just trying to learn
    >something.


    Then do like I said and hand off more.
     
  8. On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:22:46 -0500, "Steve Freides"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>

    >Boy, go to the in-laws for Easter and look what I find when I come back!
    >
    >At the meets I've been at, there have been *both* center hand-offs *and*
    >spotters on either side. Two different things here - the former gives
    >you the bar (or "helps you unrack the bar" might be a better
    >description) and the latter are there to take the weight if you can't
    >make the lift (either if the judge tells them to take it or you yourself
    >tell them to). It's not an either/or proposition, at least it hasn't
    >been for me. And there's no reason why the spotters can't help with the
    >hand-off, but they would take their lead from the person in the center.
    >I honestly couldn't tell you if I got the bar just by me unracking it
    >with help from the center person or if the spotters also helped; I just
    >don't remember.
    >
    >A good hand-off makes a world of difference - actually, a better way to
    >put it is that a lousy hand-off can keep you from doing your best
    >whereas a good one lets you focus on the business of performing the
    >lift.
    >
    >-S-
    >http://www.kbnj.com



    If the hand-off makes a world of difference, I want to learn the art.
    I won't be spotting my friend at the meet, but I am spotting him
    during training sessions.

    I've learned some useful information here and I'm grateful for it.
    All my questions haven't been answered, but, then again, no one owes
    me that. Spotting is an interesting topic. I am collecting a fair
    amount of info on lifting, but spotting is rarely addressed in my
    books.


    The Net fills in some of the blanks left from this thread

    http://umanitoba.fitdv.com/new/articles/article.html?artid=19
    (pronated hand grips recommended)

    Poliquin writes: "The biggest role of the spotter is to give the bar
    away from the bench." All I've asked for is some information on how
    to do this.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/betteru36.htm
    http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?table=exercises&ID=1
    (alternate hand grips recommended)

    I should look at the IPF video clips on a computer with a faster
    connection or a better display. What would really be helpful would be
    videos or a closeup sequence of jpegs showing the various phases of
    the handoff from different angles.

    Or I could ask someone at the gym to demonstrate spotting and give me
    feedback on what I'm doing.
     
  9. On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:59:13 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 02:54:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote in
    >misc.fitness.weights:
    >
    >>On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:08:54 -0600, John Hanson
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Then have someone else hand off to him.

    >>
    >>He can do that anytime he likes. No problem for me.
    >>He's not complaining about my hand off. I'm just trying to learn
    >>something.

    >
    >Then do like I said and hand off more.


    Yup. Will do.
     
  10. On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:12:12 -0800, Will <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> On 26 Mar 2005 18:49:19 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >[email protected] wrote:
    >> ><snip>
    >> >
    >> >> If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    >> >> requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    >> >> lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    >> >> with a 380 lb bar.
    >> >
    >> >lol no you wouldn't want to try that i don't think...

    >>
    >> No way!
    >>
    >> As I said, my training partner was far more successful unracking the
    >> bar himself than having me assist him in unracking it.
    >> He thought it might be helpful to have me assist to get him used to
    >> the feeling of being handed the bar. I'm not sure I agree. I imagine
    >> being handed the bar in a lockout feels very different than being
    >> given a small assist in unracking it. But I don't know anything about
    >> all this. I don't bench and I've never observed a meet.

    >
    >Are you going to be handing off to him at the meet? Then just practice
    >with him to do what feels right to him. If you're not handing off to
    >him at the meet, don't worry about it. He always has the option to
    >unrack the weight himself at the meet. Or, he can ask who the official
    >liftoff person is and/or find a friendly stranger in the warmup room and
    >get a couple practice liftoffs with his actual liftoff man during
    >warmups.
    >
    >I've lifted off for guys benching into the low 500 lbs, which is about
    >what I deadlift. I use an alternate grip and make sure to let go of the
    >bar slowly and gently when in position for the lifter to start.
    >
    >Before the lift, I stand straddling the lifters forhead and once he has
    >his hands gripping the bar, I begin to pull the slack out of the bar -
    >pulling not quite hard enough to lift the weight off the racks of my own
    >accord, but so that as soon as the lifter pushes the weight it comes up
    >easily. Then I guide it up and out over his preferred spot over his
    >chest, still trying to lift, like Keith says, about 40 lbs less than the
    >total weight on the bar. Then let go gently being sure not to impart
    >any spin on the bar once it's in position. Then (at a meet) I quickly
    >back away and off to the side so that the head referee has an
    >unobstructed view of the lift.
    >
    >From a lifter's perspective, I find it better if my spotter imparts too
    >little help rather than too much. I've had spotters who try to liftoff
    >the entire weight even when it is near the maximum weight they can
    >handle, leading to a jerky liftoff and sometimes even worse, pulling the
    >bar up and partially out of my hands or pulling me out of position.
    >Slow and steady the whole way is highly preferred, even if it means more
    >wieght being lifted off by the lifter.


    Thank you. Very helpful. Interesting that you use an alternate grip.
     
  11. Steve Freides wrote:
    > [email protected] oldman.org wrote:


    >>Why is one person in the middle better than one at each end? I was
    >>spotting my friend today and he did worse with me spotting than by
    >>unracking it himself. If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), the meet
    >>requires spotters to unrack the bar and give it to the lifter at
    >>lockout. I know I can't do that by myself standing behind his head
    >>with a 380 lb bar.


    > At the meets I've been at, there have been *both* center hand-offs *and*
    > spotters on either side. Two different things here - the former gives
    > you the bar (or "helps you unrack the bar" might be a better
    > description) and the latter are there to take the weight if you can't
    > make the lift (either if the judge tells them to take it or you yourself
    > tell them to). It's not an either/or proposition, at least it hasn't
    > been for me. And there's no reason why the spotters can't help with the
    > hand-off, but they would take their lead from the person in the center.
    > I honestly couldn't tell you if I got the bar just by me unracking it
    > with help from the center person or if the spotters also helped; I just
    > don't remember.


    The hand-off person should stay close (not in ref's way) to help
    if needed. Provided the fed has no oddball rules against this..

    Using the side spotters in hand-off can be problematic. Too easy for
    one side to lift too much or too soon. It'd take practice to get
    right.

    > A good hand-off makes a world of difference - actually, a better way to
    > put it is that a lousy hand-off can keep you from doing your best
    > whereas a good one lets you focus on the business of performing the
    > lift.


    Yep.
     
  12. Helgi Briem

    Helgi Briem Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:36:14 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >I should look at the IPF video clips on a computer with a faster
    >connection or a better display.


    What you should do is Right-Click on the links
    and choose the Save As... option to save the video
    on your local machine. After downloading, you
    can watch it at your leisure.


    --
    Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is
     
  13. Helgi Briem

    Helgi Briem Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:02:06 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >>I've lifted off for guys benching into the low 500 lbs, which is about
    >>what I deadlift. I use an alternate grip and make sure to let go of the
    >>bar slowly and gently when in position for the lifter to start.
    >>
    >>Before the lift, I stand straddling the lifters forhead and once he has
    >>his hands gripping the bar, I begin to pull the slack out of the bar -
    >>pulling not quite hard enough to lift the weight off the racks of my own
    >>accord, but so that as soon as the lifter pushes the weight it comes up
    >>easily. Then I guide it up and out over his preferred spot over his
    >>chest, still trying to lift, like Keith says, about 40 lbs less than the
    >>total weight on the bar. Then let go gently being sure not to impart
    >>any spin on the bar once it's in position. Then (at a meet) I quickly
    >>back away and off to the side so that the head referee has an
    >>unobstructed view of the lift.
    >>
    >>From a lifter's perspective, I find it better if my spotter imparts too
    >>little help rather than too much. I've had spotters who try to liftoff
    >>the entire weight even when it is near the maximum weight they can
    >>handle, leading to a jerky liftoff and sometimes even worse, pulling the
    >>bar up and partially out of my hands or pulling me out of position.
    >>Slow and steady the whole way is highly preferred, even if it means more
    >>wieght being lifted off by the lifter.

    >
    >Thank you. Very helpful. Interesting that you use an alternate grip.


    I do the same. I've lifted onto lifters who bench about my
    max deadlift and I wouldn't trust myself to hold onto that
    properly with a pronated grip.



    --
    Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is
     
  14. On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:33:09 +0000, Helgi Briem
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:36:14 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >>I should look at the IPF video clips on a computer with a faster
    >>connection or a better display.

    >
    >What you should do is Right-Click on the links
    >and choose the Save As... option to save the video
    >on your local machine. After downloading, you
    >can watch it at your leisure.


    OK, did that. Still can't see things clearly.

    A guy who works in my building and who claims to lift heavy told me he
    uses a certain foot placement with one in front of the other and both
    at an angle and an alternate grip when spotting to help the bencher
    return the bar to the rack. I'm not sure I remember what he does to
    help the bencher unrack the bar

    I can't see the videos clearly so I don't know what type of grip the
    spotters are using. I also can't tell what type of foot placement is
    being used. My guess is that the foot placement of the IPF spotters
    is not similar to what this guy uses. Of course, they aren't helping
    to return the bar to the rack.
     
  15. Will_S

    Will_S Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:33:09 +0000, Helgi Briem
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:36:14 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > >>I should look at the IPF video clips on a computer with a faster
    > >>connection or a better display.

    > >
    > >What you should do is Right-Click on the links
    > >and choose the Save As... option to save the video
    > >on your local machine. After downloading, you
    > >can watch it at your leisure.

    >
    > OK, did that. Still can't see things clearly.
    >
    > A guy who works in my building and who claims to lift heavy told me he
    > uses a certain foot placement with one in front of the other and both
    > at an angle and an alternate grip when spotting to help the bencher
    > return the bar to the rack. I'm not sure I remember what he does to
    > help the bencher unrack the bar
    >
    > I can't see the videos clearly so I don't know what type of grip the
    > spotters are using. I also can't tell what type of foot placement is
    > being used. My guess is that the foot placement of the IPF spotters
    > is not similar to what this guy uses. Of course, they aren't helping
    > to return the bar to the rack.


    I usually stand with my right foot about even with the lifter's ear,
    maybe 6" away from the bench horizontally. Left foot is behind the
    bench, just slightly left of center. Some spotters use a more
    symmetrical stance but having one foot forward feels more stable for me
    especially brining the bar out far for benchers with a low groove (those
    who touch low on the chest).
     
  16. On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:51:11 -0800, Will_S <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:33:09 +0000, Helgi Briem
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:36:14 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>I should look at the IPF video clips on a computer with a faster
    >> >>connection or a better display.
    >> >
    >> >What you should do is Right-Click on the links
    >> >and choose the Save As... option to save the video
    >> >on your local machine. After downloading, you
    >> >can watch it at your leisure.

    >>
    >> OK, did that. Still can't see things clearly.
    >>
    >> A guy who works in my building and who claims to lift heavy told me he
    >> uses a certain foot placement with one in front of the other and both
    >> at an angle and an alternate grip when spotting to help the bencher
    >> return the bar to the rack. I'm not sure I remember what he does to
    >> help the bencher unrack the bar
    >>
    >> I can't see the videos clearly so I don't know what type of grip the
    >> spotters are using. I also can't tell what type of foot placement is
    >> being used. My guess is that the foot placement of the IPF spotters
    >> is not similar to what this guy uses. Of course, they aren't helping
    >> to return the bar to the rack.

    >
    >I usually stand with my right foot about even with the lifter's ear,
    >maybe 6" away from the bench horizontally. Left foot is behind the
    >bench, just slightly left of center. Some spotters use a more
    >symmetrical stance but having one foot forward feels more stable for me
    >especially brining the bar out far for benchers with a low groove (those
    >who touch low on the chest).


    I appreciate the info. Thanks
     
  17. On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:51:11 -0800, Will_S <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:33:09 +0000, Helgi Briem
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:36:14 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>I should look at the IPF video clips on a computer with a faster
    >> >>connection or a better display.
    >> >
    >> >What you should do is Right-Click on the links
    >> >and choose the Save As... option to save the video
    >> >on your local machine. After downloading, you
    >> >can watch it at your leisure.

    >>
    >> OK, did that. Still can't see things clearly.
    >>
    >> A guy who works in my building and who claims to lift heavy told me he
    >> uses a certain foot placement with one in front of the other and both
    >> at an angle and an alternate grip when spotting to help the bencher
    >> return the bar to the rack. I'm not sure I remember what he does to
    >> help the bencher unrack the bar
    >>
    >> I can't see the videos clearly so I don't know what type of grip the
    >> spotters are using. I also can't tell what type of foot placement is
    >> being used. My guess is that the foot placement of the IPF spotters
    >> is not similar to what this guy uses. Of course, they aren't helping
    >> to return the bar to the rack.

    >
    >I usually stand with my right foot about even with the lifter's ear,
    >maybe 6" away from the bench horizontally. Left foot is behind the
    >bench, just slightly left of center. Some spotters use a more
    >symmetrical stance but having one foot forward feels more stable for me
    >especially brining the bar out far for benchers with a low groove (those
    >who touch low on the chest).


    I appreciate the info. Thanks
     
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