First round of newbie maintainence brings problems...

[JackGuest-com]

Hi all,

I'm a fairly avid recreational /commuter cyclist and have recently taken it upon myself to learn how to maintain and repair my bike for myself (partly because I'm now a poor student but mostly for the utility that comes from learning a new skill).

I've got a Giant hybrid (bought from France originally) that I'd done 3000k on without doing any maintenance.

My first round of maintenance has caused some small-ish problems with gear/ chain slipping and I wonder if someone could give me some advise.

Here' what I did:

- Cleaned bike very thoroughly
- Stripped rear wheel
- Replaced broken spoke
- Trued wheel
- Removed freewheel and cleaned sprockets
- Replaced axle, cones and bearings (new bearings are in a case)
- Added new chain.
- Lubed bike thoroughly

I then took it on a decent test ride (20k) and have the following problems:

- Gear changing isn't as smooth as it used to be. Changing from larger sprockets down to smaller sprockets works fine, albeit slightly 'clunky', but changing from smaller sprockets up to larger is a bit problematic. It sometimes takes two shifts on the index gear change to move up a sprocket (I can then click back down one shift and it wont slip down).

Cause?

I'm guessing that this has happened because I've put the wheel back on slightly to the left (as you look at the bike from behind) from where it was before. It does look very straight in the frame though.

Again, I'm guessing that this means the chain isn't being moved far enough to jump from a small to a large sprocket easily.

Solution?

I don't really want to take the back wheel off again, remove the freewheel and re position because its a pain.

Would the best way to fix this be to tweak the gear settings?

Consideration:

The back brake cable is currently removed (it was knackered and the back brake not really positioned properly). Should I be putting the back vee brake on first to make sure the wheel is aligned correctly? Otherwise I might be having to take the back wheel off to reposition anyway.

Thanks if you've got through this rather long post!

Kind regards,

Jack

 

[Simon Mason]

"JackGuest-com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> Here' what I did:

> - Added new chain.

Whoa -stop right there You will have to replace the
whole rear cassette with a brand new one every time you
replace a well worn chain, otherwise the new chain will not
mate with the old teeth.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W™
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

 

[Simon Mason]

"Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:...

> Here is some useful setting up advice:

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml#drivetra-
in

 

[Simon Mason]

"Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "JackGuest-com" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > Here' what I did:
>
> > - Added new chain.
>
> Whoa -stop right there You will have to replace the
> whole rear cassette with a brand new one
every
> time you replace a well worn chain, otherwise the new
> chain will not mate with the old teeth.

Here is some useful setting up advice:

 

[Simon Mason]

"Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:...

> Here is some useful setting up advice:

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml#drivetra-
in

 

[Pete Biggs]

Simon Mason wrote:

>> - Added new chain.
>
> Whoa -stop right there You will have to replace the
> whole rear cassette with a brand new one every time you
> replace a well worn chain, otherwise the new chain will
> not mate with the old teeth.

I agree when the chain really is "well" worn but that might
not be the case here if the new chain is not actually
skipping under load once in gear. In fact, it'll be good to
use a new chain if that is possible.

I suggest making sure the gear cable is adjusted properly
and checking for stiff links in the chain, then test all the
gears by pedalling hard (yet carefully!).

~PB

 

[Pete Biggs]

JackGuest-com wrote:
> - Gear changing isn't as smooth as it used to be. Changing
> from larger sprockets down to smaller sprockets works
> fine, albeit slightly 'clunky', but changing from
> smaller sprockets up to larger is a bit problematic. It
> sometimes takes two shifts on the index gear change to
> move up a sprocket (I can then click back down one shift
> and it wont slip down).
>
> Cause?

Probably, gear cable is not tight enough. Turn one of the
adjusters on the cable anticlockwise a bit until shifting is
just right.

> I'm guessing that this has happened because I've put the
> wheel back on slightly to the left (as you look at the
> bike from behind) from where it was before. It does look
> very straight in the frame though.

Possibly. It might have been wrong before, of course.

/snip
> Would the best way to fix this be to tweak the gear
> settings?

Yes (the cable), as long as the wheel really is in the right
place and all is well with it.

> Consideration:
>
> The back brake cable is currently removed (it was
> knackered and the back brake not really positioned
> properly). Should I be putting the back vee brake on first
> to make sure the wheel is aligned correctly?

No, always ignore brakes when positioning wheels. Brakes
might be off-centre! Brake centering should be adjusted
afterwards to suit the wheel.

> Otherwise I might be having to take the back wheel off to
> reposition anyway.

Fitting a wheel really shouldn't be much hassle. The
practice will do you good

Get the gears and brakes working as best as you can THEN
worry about whether the new chain is compatible with the old
sprockets. If it does skip over sprocket teeth, you should
replace the rear sprockets.

~PB

 

[Ian G Batten]

In article <[email protected]>,
JackGuest-com <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a fairly avid recreational /commuter cyclist and have
> recently taken it upon myself to learn how to maintain and
> repair my bike for myself

Huh. I had a puncture this morning. Feeling very pleased
with myself having repaired it on the towpath and inflated
the tyre with my first CO2 bottle, I was susprised that
the rear wheel wouldn't go back into the dropouts. I don't
know how, but somehow the free hub had moved slightly and
****** all the freewheel mechanism into the grass. I
managed to at least get it back in so I could wheel the
bike, but in the end summoned a relative to fetch me in a
car. Mutter, mutter.

ian

 

[Simon Mason]

"Pete Biggs" <pclemantine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Simon Mason wrote:
>
> >> - Added new chain.
> >
> > Whoa -stop right there You will have to replace the
> > whole rear cassette with a brand new one every time you
> > replace a well worn chain, otherwise the new chain will
> > not mate with the old teeth.
>
> I agree when the chain really is "well" worn but that
> might not be the case here if the new chain is not
> actually skipping under load once in gear. In fact, it'll
> be good to use a new chain if that is possible.

The OP stated that his original chain had done 3000k with
no lube. That's probably well worn ;-)

--
Simon M.

 

[Pete Biggs]

Simon Mason wrote:

> The OP stated that his original chain had done 3000k with
> no lube. That's probably well worn ;-)

Couldn't have been terribly worn or else a new chain
wouldn't work at all. This just goes to show that lube is
over-rated The OP probably changed the chain just in
time, though (assuming that it won't skip under load when
the gears are correct adjusted).

~PB

 

[JackGuest-com]

Hi, the OP here ;-)

Although the original chain had done 3000k, I had lubed it fairly regularly, the only bad thing I was doing it was lubing it without cleaning first (lube onto dust etc).

The bike was always (and still is) kept dry though, so it was 3k dry kilometers.

I read lots before I did the chain replacement and although I was tempted, ultimately decided not to replace the sprockets too:

The old chain didn't seem 'stretched' when I measured it, although the 12 links came to 12 and a bit inches, the new chain seems to be exactly the same.

Also, the sprockets/chain ring didn't seem worn at all - I even took the removed casette to halfords and compared it to a new one and couldn't notice any difference in the shape of the sprocket teeth.

The old chain wasn't giving me any problems either in terms of jumping.

So thanks all for the advise you've given (and any further advise)...

The wheel definitely looks straight in the middle of the frame (is the only way to check with eyes?), i'll have a go at tweaking the gear cable.

As I said before, when I've tested up until now, each index click of the gear change, changes gear correctly, but only going from large to small. When I go from small to large there are some problems.

Should I try comparing what I have (chain and sprocket wise) with the pictures on Sheldon's site (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html) of worn/unworn chain and sprocket combinations?

Originally posted by Pete Biggs
Simon Mason wrote:

> The OP stated that his original chain had done 3000k with
> no lube. That's probably well worn ;-)

Couldn't have been terribly worn or else a new chain
wouldn't work at all. This just goes to show that lube is
over-rated The OP probably changed the chain just in
time, though (assuming that it won't skip under load when
the gears are correct adjusted).

~PB

 

[Jon Senior]

JackGuest-com [email protected] opined the
following...
> The wheel definitely looks straight in the middle of the
> frame (is the only way to check with eyes?), i'll have a
> go at tweaking the gear cable.

From your symptoms, probably the best bet.

> As I said before, when I've tested up until now, each
> index click of the gear change, changes gear correctly,
> but only going from large to small. When I go from small
> to large there are some problems.

Try very small increases in cable tension. Shimano gears
have (IIRC) float in the upper jockey wheel, so the correct
position may not be immediately obvious. If you have some
kind of adjustment mechanism near the handlebars, I would
suggest that you ake sure you know how to use it, then ride
gently around the block while adjusting it. After each
adjustment, change up and down (or down and up) a few times
to see what the effect was.

> Should I try comparing what I have (chain and sprocket
> wise) with the pictures on Sheldon's site
> (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html) of worn/unworn
> chain and sprocket combinations?

Possibly. Worn blocks and new chains tend to skip teeth
within a gear rather than to affect shifting, IIRC. Also
check that you don't have an excess of chain. The length of
chain supplied may be longer than is required for your
particular set up.

Good luck

Jon

 

[Pete Biggs]

JackGuest-com wrote:
> As I said before, when I've tested up until now, each
> index click of the gear change, changes gear correctly,
> but only going from large to small. When I go from small
> to large there are some problems.

It's not a case of either working or not working. There's
always a *range* of adjustment that will allow the
indexing to work to some extent. You're just on the edge
of that range.

Problems this way round are more common simply because it's
physically more difficult for the chain to climb up and hook
on to a larger sprocket than it is to fall down and plonk
onto a smaller one. The derailleur actually needs to
overshift slightly to shift the chain quickly (and in fact
some shifters have overshifting built in: eg. Campagnolo).
You just have to hope that you don't have to have the cable
so taut that the chain rubs on the next sprocket normally
(listen for noise when adjusting).

Cable, derailleur, shifters or gear hanger (the part that
derailleur attaches to) may need further attention or
replacing if good adjustment isn't possible.

> Should I try comparing what I have (chain and sprocket
> wise) with the pictures on Sheldon's site
> (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html) of worn/unworn
> chain and sprocket combinations?

I wouldn't bother yet. The wear can be too subtle to spot by
eye and the weird shapes of modern sprocket teeth don't
help. The fact that a brand new chain doesn't skip on them
means they're in fairly decent condition, at least. The
shifting problem will be due to something else.

~PB

 

[Simon Mason]

"JackGuest-com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:dcRpc.3748
>
> Hi, the OP here ;-)
>
> Although the original chain had done 3000k, I had lubed it
> fairly regularly, the only bad thing I was doing it was
> lubing it without cleaning first (lube onto dust etc).

Fair enough Jack - it's just that every time I've fitted a
new chain, it has always skipped and I've had to get a new
cassette. Good luck.
--
Simon M.

 

[JackGuest-com]

Actually, you were right Simon!

The gear changing problems I was having *were* due to the sprocket being worn and not being compatible with the new chain - it was one sprocket in particular (the one I used to use most).

So, I cycled to the local bikeshop to buy a new casette and some other bits and on the way my gripshift broke (snapped spring I think) and so I bought a new one.

The new gripshift and gear cable is now fitted, along with the new casette (and new chain) and everything's working great. I used my 'Haynes Bike Book' to guide myself through tweaking the gear cable tension for perfect index changing.

Now I just need a tool for cutting the excess off the new gear cable (and for fitting the new back brake cable) and i'll be set.

The two bike shops in Norwich I visited didn't have a cable cutting tool - any suggestions of where to get a good/cheap one?

I might just wait until 'Dr Bike' comes to my Uni on Thursday and ask if he'll cut the cable for me.

Thanks again for your advise!

Originally posted by Simon Mason
Fair enough Jack - it's just that every time I've fitted a
new chain, it has always skipped and I've had to get a new
cassette. Good luck.
--
Simon M. [/B]

 

[Sandy Morton]

In article <[email protected]>,
JackGuest-com <[email protected]> wrote:
> The two bike shops in Norwich I visited didn't have a
> cable cutting tool - any suggestions of where to get a
> good/cheap one?

I find this difficult to believe but if you have a dinghy
sailing club near you they will almost certainly have one.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global
Village http://www.millport.net

 

[Sam Salt]

Sandy Morton wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> JackGuest-com <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The two bike shops in Norwich I visited didn't have a
>> cable cutting tool - any suggestions of where to get a
>> good/cheap one?
>
> I find this difficult to believe but if you have a dinghy
> sailing club near you they will almost certainly have one.

Jack,these are supposed to be good.Not used them myself,keep
meaning to get a pair.They are post free as well.

http://www.mwdyason.ltd.uk/shop.asp?no_category=23&text_com-
pany=TOOLS

Much cheaper than Park Tools and much much better
customer service.

Sam Salt

 

[Sam Salt]

Sam Salt wrote:
> Sandy Morton wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> JackGuest-com <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> The two bike shops in Norwich I visited didn't have a
>>> cable cutting tool - any suggestions of where to get a
>>> good/cheap one?
>>
>> I find this difficult to believe but if you have a
>> dinghy sailing club near you they will almost certainly
>> have one.
>
> Jack,these are supposed to be good.Not used them
> myself,keep meaning to get a pair.They are post free
> as well.
>
> http://www.mwdyason.ltd.uk/shop.asp?no_category=23&text_c-
> ompany=TOOLS
>
> Much cheaper than Park Tools and much much better customer
> service.
>
> Sam Salt

Sorry,scroll down to bottom of page,last but one item.

Sam Salt

 

[JackGuest-com]

Originally posted by Sandy Morton
I find this difficult to believe...

Have faith brother, it is the truth.

One had sold out, the other was a specialist shop which didn't sell them.