First time looking for a road bike

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz

Alfeng,
I'm a bit concerned about one of the points you seem to be avoiding. In every review and piece of advice I have read so far, the topic of fit comes up. Bad fits can cause aches and pains, while good fits can allow hours of comfortable riding. Everyone seems to say not to buy a bike if you can't try it out first. The method you are suggesting guarantees that I would not be able to test-ride the bike and I would not be able to return it if it could not be made to fit. But you're suggesting this to a complete road newbie, who has no idea how to set the fit properly. It sounds to me like you're giving advice that is all but guaranteed to result in a less than optimal fit for someone who has no idea how to fit a bike. What am I supposed to do? Build a franken-bike, then take it down to the LBS and ask them to fit me on it? I'm sure they'll love that.

I know I'll need to learn how to fit a bike at some point so that I can make my own adjustments. But is that the introduction I need to road cycling?

As it stands, my hybrid stands 98cm high at the top tube. The handlebars rise 16cm above that. The seatpost is only raised 8cm out of the seat tube to fit me properly. This is a HUGE frame. This puts a fundamental limitation onto the fit I can get. If the top tube is too high, it limits the minimum height of the stem. Sure, there are stems that can drop below the head tube, but those introduce their own problems. If the top tube gives me too much reach, I can't fix that. If the top tube doesn't give me enough reach, I can use longer stems, but that affects the steering. So these two variables determine a lot of the fit, but there's no way for me to know if they are even close to what I need in advance.

The frame is HUGE. It contains A LOT of metal. It is HEAVY. The road bikes I tried out were 1-hand lifts. This bike is a 2-hand lift. I'm sure some of that can be fixed by replacing the rims, forks, seatpost. Some cannot.

When I ride my hybrid with Schwalbe Marathon's, I feel an enormous amount of vibration. When I tried out road bikes over the weekend, I didn't notice that nearly as much (I watched the LBS guy inflate the tires, I know they were done right). Are you saying that's NOT down to the frame? I'm pretty sure it's ALL about the frame. It's sure not the tires. It could be the wheels. It's not the seat/seatpost, since I didn't feel it in the handlebars either. Sounds to me like the frame is pretty important.

I'm not trying to talk myself into an all-new bike just because I don't want to upgrade. I don't want to upgrade because I don't think the bike is worth it. Yes, components of my hybrid bother me, but that's not the whole story. I don't like the position that I'm riding in. I tried to fix it with aerobars. That helped, but it wasn't enough. That's what made me want to look at road bikes in the first place. I only got the aerobars after I worked out that putting drop bars on the bike was going to be a minimum of £200 for shifters, bars, stem, tape, cables, etc. and that's IF I could find shifters that were compatible with 7-speed Shimano Tourney. NOW I know that deciding not to put drop bars on was a good idea, since I would have had no way to work out adjust the bars to fit me properly.

In summary,

• The frame is too heavy.
• The geometry is bad for road cycling.
• The components are low-end.
• I can't test-ride it if I'm cobbling it together myself I can't determine whether the parts I order are going to work or not in advance

[*]I don't know how to fit a road bike.
[*]It can be useful to have two bikes, like when one is fitted with a big rack for carrying groceries, and the other is fast.

Yes, it's a savings. Yes, it's doable. But is it the right choice for me to convert my hybrid to a road bike? There, I just don't think so.

98cm!?!

Really?!?

Well, I do not recall your saying before this that the frame was the modern equivalent of a Penny-Farthing ...

• maybe you could-or-should post a picture of your current bike as it is set up
• what is the length of the virtual Top Tube?
• I don't recall your mentioning your height, BTW ... a 40" tall Top Tube would seem to suggest that you must be over 6'6" tall if you present abstract information, you probably should not expect better answers, BTW

Regardless, I fully understand that a typical Hybrid probably weighs in at 15kg, or more ...

BUT, an alloy frame typically weighs about 3lbs (1.4kg) ...

MANY Hybrids, particularly at the lower end, have a lot of steel components ... a lot!

Figure on at least 6kg worth of difference between the steel components & alloy components ...

If you have a Suspension Fork, then I reckon that it has to add at least another kg-or-two because it probably has steel lowers.

And THAT is why I indicated that the pictured Mongoose weighs less than 20lbs. (9.1kg).

REGARDLESS, I was working from the apparently false presumption that the Hybrid you had FIT YOU ...

• if it fit you as a Hybrid, then it can be fitted to you as a Road bike
• if it was too large for you as a Hybrid then (other than the fact that it should not have been sold to you and/or you should not have bought it!!!), then you are correct that it will be difficult to convert it for YOU to use as a "Road" bike

Vibration? There may be a problem with the Headset adjustment OR your front-and/or-rear wheels need to be trued OR the cones need to be adjusted ... just to name some possible causes.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by AyeYo

The frame is a real issue. The problem is "hybrid" means nothing. If it's a Crossrip or something similar, it can be made into a nice road bike. My 8.4ds is labeled "hybrid" but is built on mountain bike frame. It'll never be road bike, the geometry is horribly wrong. Alfeng probably isn't realizing this is the type of hybrid you have.

Correct.

I am clueless as to the type of Hybrid frame which Owboduz has ...

• OR, its size
• OR, his height

FWIW. As I mentioned before (elsewhere, at least), my observation is that a Hybrid was originally a "Touring" bike with a MTB/("Flat") handlebar/etc. ... hence the name "Hybrid."

• At some point, the unnecessary, low quality Suspension Forks were added to Hybrids due to "popular demand" by those who didn't know better ...

Here is ANOTHER bike of mine which would have been labeled as a Hybrid if the appellation had been around at the time. The frame is steel. I do not know how much the bike weighs, but it must be 24+ lbs. even after configuring it as a "touring" bike & being refitted with more reasonable components instead of whatever porky weight it originally had been with the ponderously heavy components which the factory chose to ship it with ...

​

The beauty of this bike is that it can accommodate massive 700x52 (29er) tyres in lieu of larger tyres + fenders.

 

[new_rider]

LOL, sorry about all the sh-t "advice" you've received over the weekend.

The old geezers who frequent the forum on weekends get lonely and constipated and start pouring out 20 page off topic rants about the most random sh-t.

Back on topic, you've found a great bike shop with a wide variety of bikes and you've done the right thing by test riding. And triples are just fine. I prefer them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owboduz .
Alfeng,
I have not made myself clear. I do not want to upgrade my hybrid.
For anyone who was interested in helping with my original question...

 

[Owboduz]

  Correct.    I am clueless as to the type of Hybrid frame which Owboduz has ... 

How many times have I said, in this thread, Trek FX 7.0?  If you don't read my posts, how can you possibly help? Do note that I measured the height of the frame at the head tube to get 98cm, so the standover, which they've measured near the seatpost, is a bit lower.  Yes, I have the 25" frame.  Yes it fits me.  Yes, I'm tall.  Yes, most of my height is in my legs. Pictures of your bikes don't help.  They're not my frame, so how can they possibly add to the discussion? Let me reiterate:

• I don't want to upgrade my hybrid.
• I don't know how to fit a road bike.
• It's not possible to test ride components for a bike upgrade.
• There is no financial benefit to upgrading a hybrid (£300+ vs new bike starting at £375, plus financing as options, plus cyclescheme as an option).
• My frame is wrong for use as a road bike.
• There is a problem with road vibration in my hybrid.

To be clear, the problem with road vibration on my hybrid disappears on smooth pavement. It's not a question of alignment, oil, or anything else. It's a lack of dampening. Hard tyres plus high pressure plus steel fork equals vibration on rough roads. The back is bad too, but the seat absorbs more of that. All the good road bikes have a solution for dealing with road vibration: Specialized uses Zerts inserts and Cannondale uses the SAVE forks and chainstays, to name a few.  These may not do anything, but if I upgrade a hybrid, I don't even get branding that suggests it might do something. What is a hybrid? http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/gear/article/what-is-a-hybrid-bike-36963/

Some hybrids are closer to mountain bikes than road machines, and others fall closer to the tarmac side of things. 

Mine is closer to the mountain bike side of things. I understand now, where you're getting confused.  When I say "hybrid" you're thinking of those bikes that Giant & Co. sell that are pretty much road bikes except for the handlebars.  This is not one of those.  This is a mountain bike with narrower tires. Can we drop this now?  Please?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
How many times have I said, in this thread, Trek FX 7.0? If you don't read my posts, how can you possibly help?

How many times prior to the above post?

Apparently, ONE time ...

And, apparently not until the 26th post of this thread ...

THAT would be more than halfway down the second page of this thread.

NOT your first-or-second-or-any-subsequent post in this thread ...

FYI. As you have inferred, other people read these threads ... and so, observations are for both the OP or his-or-her-respondents as well as the lurkers.

BTW. The ONLY bikes which might truly be poor candidates for Drop bars may be the so-called "Amsterdam" bikes ...

• even so, there is probably one-or-more bikes of that ilk out there in the World which has been retrofitted with Drop bars.

There is nothing about a Trek FX 7.0 which would preclude it from being converted to a Drop Bar bike, particularly since it is not a "Hybrid" which is encumbered with a Suspension Fork.

Quote: Originally Posted by Owboduz .
How many times have I said, in this thread, Trek FX 7.0? If you don't read my posts, how can you possibly help?

Do note that I measured the height of the frame at the head tube to get 98cm, so the standover, which they've measured near the seatpost, is a bit lower. Yes, I have the 25" frame. Yes it fits me. Yes, I'm tall. Yes, most of my height is in my legs.

Pictures of your bikes don't help. They're not my frame, so how can they possibly add to the discussion?

Let me reiterate:

• I don't want to upgrade my hybrid.
• I don't know how to fit a road bike.
• It's not possible to test ride components for a bike upgrade.
• There is no financial benefit to upgrading a hybrid (£300+ vs new bike starting at £375, plus financing as options, plus cyclescheme as an option).
• My frame is wrong for use as a road bike.
• There is a problem with road vibration in my hybrid.

All the good road bikes have a solution for dealing with road vibration: Specialized uses Zerts inserts and Cannondale uses the SAVE forks and chainstays, to name a few. These may not do anything, but if I upgrade a hybrid, I don't even get branding that suggests it might do something.


What is a hybrid? http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/gear/article/what-is-a-hybrid-bike-36963/

Mine is closer to the mountain bike side of things.

I understand now, where you're getting confused. When I say "hybrid" you're thinking of those bikes that Giant & Co. sell that are pretty much road bikes except for the handlebars. This is not one of those. This is a mountain bike with narrower tires.

Can we drop this now? Please?


Again ...

I get that you have a hankering for a new bike.

And, you want an excuse AND/OR validation ...

I get it ...

Because you are not the first, nor will you be the last.

Geez.

I will sometimes change components on one of my bikes to suit my aesthetic sensibilities at the moment ...

But, I don't pretend that the reason is otherwise.

If you had simply stated-and/or-would-admit that you WANT a new bike rather than saying that your bike cannot be converted OR making excuses, then MY replies would probably have been completely different ...

BTW. Allowing for the difference in the frame size, then presuming that your bike looks like the picture on the Trek website ...

​

​

Then your Hybrid is closer to a Road bike than to a MTB.

• the combined weight of the bare frame & fork of a 25" Trek 7.0 is probably no more than 6 lbs.
• the excess weight is a consequence of the components which adorn the frameset

And, presuming that the bike wasn't crashed, then the front end vibration is a maintenance issue which could occur with ANY type of bike ...

And (for the other readers of this thread), despite your protestations, a Trek FX 7.0 is a perfect candidate for Drop handlebars.

BTW. A £400 +/- Road bike is a lateral move with components which will be similar to those which are on your Trek 7.0 ...

So, once again, let me suggest that you not choose a bike with SORA shifters/etc. and (because swapping components seems to be an anathema idea to you) that you will be happier if you pony up for a bike with 105-or-better (ANY Campagnolo shifter qualifies in the "better" category) shifters & components .

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz


How many times have I said, in this thread, Trek FX 7.0? If you don't read my posts, how can you possibly help?

Do note that I measured the height of the frame at the head tube to get 98cm, so the standover, which they've measured near the seatpost, is a bit lower. Yes, I have the 25" frame. Yes it fits me. Yes, I'm tall. Yes, most of my height is in my legs.

Pictures of your bikes don't help. They're not my frame, so how can they possibly add to the discussion?

Let me reiterate:

• I don't want to upgrade my hybrid.
• I don't know how to fit a road bike.
• It's not possible to test ride components for a bike upgrade.
• There is no financial benefit to upgrading a hybrid (£300+ vs new bike starting at £375, plus financing as options, plus cyclescheme as an option).
• My frame is wrong for use as a road bike.
• There is a problem with road vibration in my hybrid.

To be clear, the problem with road vibration on my hybrid disappears on smooth pavement. It's not a question of alignment, oil, or anything else. It's a lack of dampening. Hard tyres plus high pressure plus steel fork equals vibration on rough roads. The back is bad too, but the seat absorbs more of that.

All the good road bikes have a solution for dealing with road vibration: Specialized uses Zerts inserts and Cannondale uses the SAVE forks and chainstays, to name a few. These may not do anything, but if I upgrade a hybrid, I don't even get branding that suggests it might do something.


What is a hybrid? http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/gear/article/what-is-a-hybrid-bike-36963/
Mine is closer to the mountain bike side of things.

I understand now, where you're getting confused. When I say "hybrid" you're thinking of those bikes that Giant & Co. sell that are pretty much road bikes except for the handlebars. This is not one of those. This is a mountain bike with narrower tires.

Can we drop this now? Please?

Depending on the source, the saying is that a picture is worth 100 (or, 1000) words ...

The point of the pictures of the various bikes with different frames of different vintages was to illustrate that contemporary ROAD components can be fit on almost any bike frame.

 

[Owboduz]

Again,
I can't test ride components. I can test ride a bike.
I don't know how to fit a bike. A shop does.
The vibration in my frame is due to my tyres. Schwalbe Marathons are just like that.
I want a longer reach than my frame can give me.
My frame is too tall. It actually causes problems locking it to public racks.
I have a use for multiple bikes.
I can't finance upgrades.
I can't get upgrades through a cycle to work programme.

Anyway, I'm done here. I'm not interested in debating this anymore. I've asked you to drop it several times, but you have this itch to call me a complainer who just wants a new bike while ignoring the possibility of an upgrade. I have considered an upgrade. I'm not interested due to the reasons above.

I'm not trying to justify a purchase of a bike. Is it necessary? No. My hybrid allows me to move from place to place at greater than walking speed. That was its purpose.
Do I want a road bike? Yes. I want to join riding clubs. I want to do more endurance rides. A road bike would be more appropriate for that.

Anyway, you've successfully convinced me to abandon this thread.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by Owboduz


Anyway, you've successfully convinced me to abandon this thread.

I don't blame you for being frustrated with this thread.
I hope you end up with the bike the makes you happy and can leave this mess (on this thread) behind.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
Again,
I can't test ride components. I can test ride a bike.
I don't know how to fit a bike. A shop does.
The vibration in my frame is due to my tyres. Schwalbe Marathons are just like that.
I want a longer reach than my frame can give me.
My frame is too tall. It actually causes problems locking it to public racks.
I have a use for multiple bikes.
I can't finance upgrades.
I can't get upgrades through a cycle to work programme.

Anyway, I'm done here. I'm not interested in debating this anymore. I've asked you to drop it several times, but you have this itch to call me a complainer who just wants a new bike while ignoring the possibility of an upgrade. I have considered an upgrade. I'm not interested due to the reasons above.

I'm not trying to justify a purchase of a bike. Is it necessary? No. My hybrid allows me to move from place to place at greater than walking speed. That was its purpose.
Do I want a road bike? Yes. I want to join riding clubs. I want to do more endurance rides. A road bike would be more appropriate for that.

Anyway, you've successfully convinced me to abandon this thread.

First off, you don't have to reply to this (consider it to be for the lurkers, et al)...

• In my first post in this thread, I suggested that you try some clip-ons to ensure that you actually wanted to use Drop bars because, not everyone can acclimate to the riding position to state what may not be obvious to everyone, Drop handlebars come in MANY widths & shapes AND many/most riders develop-or-have a preference to some extent, you could theoretically sort out the width/"reach" by using the clip-ons on your current bike's Flat handlebars

[*]theoretically, with the clip-on Drop handlebars, you do NOT need anything else to test their feasibility OR utility on an extant Flat Bar bike
[*]presumably, you wouldn't need to finance the £15 +/- for clip-on Drop handlebars

• and, the way I was schooled in arithmetic, £15 out-of-pocket is better than financing £300-to-£500
• I'm not clairvoyant -- did you previously mention YOUR interest in participating in the "cycle to work programme" for financing [yes, others have mentioned it before] OR did you think inference was sufficient OR was that something else which I absently glossed over?

• I subsequently indicated that you ONLY need a pair of Campagnolo shifters + the Drop handlebars & sundries BECAUSE you posted a shopping list of components beyond the bare minimum

• all the pictorial examples, as I have indicated previously, were supposed to be illustrative BECAUSE the frame is mostly just scaffolding which orients the rider & components
• CONSEQUENTLY, almost any bike can be converted to a "Road" bike there is nothing wrong with the cosmetics of the bike stroking one's ego

YOU don't have to justify a new bike.

YOU certainly don't have to justify having more than one bike!!

However, I do think that it is important that when a person is looking to change OR upgrade that s/he understands that expressed-and-professed reasons may be invalid ...

• in one breath you say it's the frame
• in another the tyres

• AFAIK, unless you have a custom "Road" frame cobbled up for yourself, the longest (virtual) Top Tube will be 60cm

• as far as "testing" components, ignoring my recommendation/preference, accept that Campagnolo shifters are "Tour tested" and, while I know some people have expressed that they don't like using Campagnolo shifters, they are very, very few
• and, THE disadvantage of Campagnolo shifters is that most people incorrectly believe that Campagnolo shifters must be used with expensive/(over-priced?) Campagnolo components because THAT is a reality about using Shimano & SRAM shifters

So, a repeated intent was-and-is, in part, to correct misconceptions which you have embraced & repeated while illustrating (through examples of MY bikes) that (m)any frames can be converted to use as a Road bike, even any MTB Hardtail frame which came from the factory spec'd to use 26" wheels.

While certainly subjective, the point of comparing my observation of my Peugeot with my Colnago was to indicate that the frame made very little difference ... which can be extrapolated to mean that if you were to put an equivalent wheelset & tyres found on any of the bikes which you test ride on your Trek FX 7.0 then you should have the same sense of zippiness (to use the technical term) and/or putting the equivalent of your wheelset & tyres on a "Racing" bike (if the tyres could fit) would slug the ride, accordingly.

In other words, don't blame the FX 7.0 frame as the reason for getting a Road bike.

BTW. As this thread has progressed, you've changed the parameters from "I want to try using drop bars" (post 1) to " I want to join riding clubs. I want to do more endurance rides" (post 47).

Perhaps it is YOU who should read what you have written, or not written ...

That is, it's not a matter of being separated by a common language ...

But rather, your doling out information/parameters in dribs-and-drabs.

Regardless, don't expect a £400 Road bike to fulfill your expectations.

• do a search in the Forum -- people with SORA shifters are constantly asking about upgrading their drivetrain
• and, if you don't have the desire to finance upgrades, you may be in a sorry boat in the near future

So, do take advantage of the "cycle to work programme" and get the bike with the most expensive components that you can actually afford ...

• once again, that means 105-or-better
• while you may think otherwise, check to ensure that the frame/fork can actually accept 700x28 tyres even if you end up using a smaller size
• in fact, you may-or-may-not want to check to ensure that the bike has the clearance for 700x28 tyres + mud guards (just in case you actually decide to use it to commute to work) because "fender" eyelets are not a guarantee that fenders can be used on a bike because many people just use them for mounting racks on their bikes.

Verstehen Sie?

 

[Owboduz]

Originally Posted by alfeng First off, you don't have to reply to this (consider it to be for the lurkers, et al)...

I have asked you multiple times to drop this topic. I'm not interested. It's not relevant to my thread. I don't want to continue this discussion. I wasn't planning to answer this thread again. It took me a long time to decide that I would. I'm just not happy with how you have misrepresented and misinterpreted things I've said.

Originally Posted by alfeng

• in one breath you say it's the frame
• in another the tyres

I said that the frame was failing to dampen vibration. Then you accused me of poor bike maintenance. So I explained that the source of the vibration was a set of stiff, high pressure (80PSI) tyres. Not unlike what you get with road tyres.

Originally Posted by alfeng

• AFAIK, unless you have a custom "Road" frame cobbled up for yourself, the longest (virtual) Top Tube will be 60cm

61cm or 63cm, depending on manufacturer. My measurements indicate that I should be between 60 and 63, depending on manufacturer and fit.

Originally Posted by alfeng

• as far as "testing" components, ignoring my recommendation/preference, accept that Campagnolo shifters are "Tour tested"

I was making reference to the fact that the fit and feel of the handlebars, stem, headset, etc. would not be testable in advance. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Originally Posted by alfeng So, a repeated intent was-and-is, in part, to correct misconceptions which you have embraced & repeated while illustrating (through examples of MY bikes) that (m)any frames can be converted to use as a Road bike, even any MTB Hardtail frame which came from the factory spec'd to use 26" wheels.

Except that every review out there talks about the feel of the frame. Personally, all I can tell you is that the road bikes I tested felt much nicer. From vibration absorbtion to acceleration to handling. They felt nicer.

Originally Posted by alfeng BTW. As this thread has progressed, you've changed the parameters from "I want to try using drop bars" (post 1) to " I want to join riding clubs. I want to do more endurance rides" (post 47).

Originally Posted by Owboduz
I'll probably use the bike for commuting when its dry and for long distance riding.

I guess I should have used the exact words "endurance riding" since, "long distance riding" wasn't clear enough.

Originally Posted by alfeng But rather, your doling out information/parameters in dribs-and-drabs.

Information which wasn't necessary for the the topic of this thread. The exact specifications of the bike I have and my experiences of it are irrelevant to the question: what should I look for in my first road bike? The "dribs and drabs" of information, as you put it, came up bit by bit as I tried to convince you to let the topic drop.

If I were to follow all the suggestions you have made through to their logical conclusion, I would have no choice but to buy a MIG welder, a pipe bender, and a pile of aluminium pipe, and DIY the whole thing. You know, since the frame doesn't matter.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
I have asked you multiple times to drop this topic. I'm not interested. It's not relevant to my thread. I don't want to continue this discussion. I wasn't planning to answer this thread again. It took me a long time to decide that I would. I'm just not happy with how you have misrepresented and misinterpreted things I've said.

You also said they were really hard to find. The fact of the matter is that a year ago, when I first looked at drop bars, I tried to find clip-ons and couldn't. Maybe I didn't look hard enough. I settled on Aero-bars as an alternate solution. So, I did consider drop bar clip-ons as you suggested in your original post. Considered and rejected.

What on earth makes you think that it would be appropriate for me to discuss how I was planning to pay for my bike with you? The only reason I brought this up at all was in a last-ditch effort to get you to stop dragging my thread off-topic. Clearly, that failed.

I said that the frame was failing to dampen vibration. Then you accused me of poor bike maintenance. So I explained that the source of the vibration was a set of stiff, high pressure (80PSI) tyres. Not unlike what you get with road tyres.

61cm or 63cm, depending on manufacturer. My measurements indicate that I should be between 60 and 63, depending on manufacturer and fit.

I was making reference to the fact that the fit and feel of the handlebars, stem, headset, etc. would not be testable in advance. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Except that every review out there talks about the feel of the frame. Personally, all I can tell you is that the road bikes I tested felt much nicer. From vibration absorbtion to acceleration to handling. They felt nicer.

I guess I should have used the exact words "endurance riding" since, "long distance riding" wasn't clear enough.

Information which wasn't necessary for the the topic of this thread. The exact specifications of the bike I have and my experiences of it are irrelevant to the question: what should I look for in my first road bike? The "dribs and drabs" of information, as you put it, came up bit by bit as I tried to convince you to let the topic drop.

If I were to follow all the suggestions you have made through to their logical conclusion, I would have no choice but to buy a MIG welder, a pipe bender, and a pile of aluminium pipe, and DIY the whole thing. You know, since the frame doesn't matter.

This is JUST another correction ...

• I did NOT say the clip-on Drop bars "were really hard to find."
• I said that "I thought they stopped making these types of clip-ons over a decade ago,"

I had not been looking for them.

There is a difference.

BTW. I did not say that "the frame doesn't matter" ...

I did say that for the non-sponsored rider that the frame doesn't matter as much as many people have been led to think.

Again, there is a difference.

I presume that there is no point in addressing the rest of your comments.