Fitness/Sickness Q's (long)

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cat Dailey, Mar 3, 2004.

  1. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    A few quick q's for the experts here...

    I had been training pretty hard for about 6-8 weeks (new year and all that). Dieting, LT
    threshold rides, longer interval training, etc. I had put in about 815 miles (road and trainer)
    between Jan 1 and Feb 19. I raised my LT from around 163 bpm to somewhere between 170-174 (I
    think my max is 181-183).

    I contracted a BAD respiratory virus two weeks ago and didn't ride for 12 days, when I barely
    managed to do 45 min easy on the trainer on day 12 and did 52 miles this morning (day 14).

    I am still slightly sick and am seeing the doc again today.

    My Q's: Since I began a layoff at a fairly high fitness level, will I lose as much fitness as I
    would if I was less trained? How much fitness should I expect to lose (I was afraid to wear a HR
    monitor today...I didn't want to see those numbers!) How long will it take me to regain the same
    fitness level given a two week layoff?

    Drug q: I know that ephedra/caffeine is supposed to have some sort of a performance benefit. I also
    know that ephedra raises heart rate. If a rider has an LT of 170, but takes e/c, which artificially
    raises HR, say, 5 bpm, wouldn't there be a performance detriment (rider would go anaerobic sooner
    due to artificially boosted hr?)??? Does pseudephedrine or other cold medicines have this effect?

    Thank you all in advance, Cat who is really bummed out
     
    Tags:


  2. pedalchick

    pedalchick New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
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    0
    That sucks. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd go back to base training for a week or two before doing LT work again. You have to be very careful with those respiratory viruses - there's a chance you can have some sort of nasty infection in your heart that can screw you up royally. Make sure you're good and well before going out of the aerobic zone - it's still early enough in the season to get back up to speed. If you rush, you could end up sicker and screwing up your entire summer.

    Ask yourself if you were dieting too much, or ramping up too much too soon - this could be the reason you got sick in the first place. Take it easy, get better, and work your way back into shape slowly.

    Best of luck!
     
  3. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Cat Dailey wrote:
    > > A few quick q's for the experts here...

    <major snippage>

    > > My Q's: Since I began a layoff at a fairly high fitness level, will I lose as much fitness as
    > > I would if I was less trained? How much
    fitness
    > > should I expect to lose (I was afraid to wear a HR monitor today...I didn't want to see those
    > > numbers!) How long will it take me to regain the same fitness level given a two week layoff?
    > > Drug q: I know that ephedra/caffeine is supposed to have some sort of
    a
    > > performance benefit. I also know that ephedra raises heart rate. If a rider has an LT of 170,
    > > but takes e/c, which artificially raises HR, say, 5 bpm, wouldn't there be a performance
    > > detriment (rider would go anaerobic sooner due to artificially boosted hr?)??? Does
    pseudephedrine
    > > or other cold medicines have this effect? Thank you all in advance, Cat who is really
    > > bummed out
    >
    >
    >
    > That sucks. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd go back to base training for a
    > week or two before doing LT work again. You have to be very careful with those respiratory viruses
    > - there's a chance you can have some sort of nasty infection in your heart that can screw you up
    > royally. Make sure you're good and well before going out of the aerobic zone - it's still early
    > enough in the season to get back up to speed. If you rush, you could end up sicker and screwing up
    > your entire summer.
    >
    > Ask yourself if you were dieting too much, or ramping up too much too soon - this could be the
    > reason you got sick in the first place. Take it easy, get better, and work your way back into
    > shape slowly.
    >
    > Best of luck!
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    Thanks for the wishes...I don't think I was dieting too much or ramping up too fast, but I do get
    exposed to a lot of nasty crap at the gym where I work. It was probably a combination of all three
    things. Picking up a virus while under calorie restriction (moderate) and hard training. <sigh> Cat
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Guest

    I would agree with Pedalchik here. I see a lot of people make this mistake, not the leastof which
    was Jan Ullrich. It is best to focus on weight loss OR fitness and not both at once. I also see you
    doing far too much LT and long interval work early in the season. Taken together, you are lucky it
    wasn't much worse. Most riders overlook the need of short intervals early in the year and never
    bridge that gap later. Regarding your fitness question, though, I can speak from very recent
    personal experience.

    I had a good level of fitness at the end of November, but then suffered a pretty bad ankle sprain
    and then picked up the flu 5 days later (the one-two punch). Needless to say, when I retested myself
    on the 31st of December my fitness was gone. To make matters worse the weather was horribly cold in
    New England and I was leaving for a coaching foray with clients in California. I needed fitness
    badly, so I went back to the basics.

    10-12 hrs/week (most on the trainer - 2 hrs at a time usually), with a mix of high intensity short
    (1 min or less) intervals, easy riding, STR work on the bike, tempo work and a touch of threshold
    after 3 weeks. [Note: Windtrainer rides are much tougher than rode miles, so don't be afraid to cut
    back or rest more.] I knew I would be in the hole in California, but once there I rode about
    everyday for an average of 3 hrs per day with some (short) interval days. I retested myself when I
    got back and saw a 40% improvement.

    The lesson here is that much of your fitness is probably gone, but not forgotten. Stick with an
    easier schedule and more base fitness (LT fine tunes fitness, making it a poor choice for base
    training - ie, a little goes a long way). I would also skip the dieting and maybe take a look at the
    South Beach Diet, you can learn a lot about eating from
    it. If you have specific training questions, contact me.

    Regarding your drug question, the research is pretty clear: Ephedra imporves high intensity
    sustained activity (30 sec or more) and does little for endurance. The small increase in HR could be
    a detriment, but probably has little effect overall.

    Good Luck, Chris Harnish, M.S. Exercise Physiologist & Coach People Cycle, Inc. www.peoplecycle.org

    "Cat Dailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > A few quick q's for the experts here...
    >
    > I had been training pretty hard for about 6-8 weeks (new year and all that). Dieting, LT threshold
    > rides, longer interval training, etc. I had put in about 815 miles (road and trainer) between Jan
    > 1 and Feb 19. I raised my LT from around 163 bpm to somewhere between 170-174 (I think my max is
    > 181-183).
    >
    > I contracted a BAD respiratory virus two weeks ago and didn't ride for 12 days, when I barely
    > managed to do 45 min easy on the trainer on day 12 and did 52 miles this morning (day 14).
    >
    > I am still slightly sick and am seeing the doc again today.
    >
    > My Q's: Since I began a layoff at a fairly high fitness level, will I lose as much fitness as I
    > would if I was less trained? How much fitness should I expect to lose (I was afraid to wear a HR
    > monitor today...I didn't want to see those numbers!) How long will it take me to regain the same
    > fitness level given a two week layoff?
    >
    > Drug q: I know that ephedra/caffeine is supposed to have some sort of a performance benefit. I
    > also know that ephedra raises heart rate. If a rider has an LT of 170, but takes e/c, which
    > artificially raises HR, say, 5 bpm, wouldn't there be a performance detriment (rider would go
    > anaerobic sooner due to artificially boosted hr?)??? Does pseudephedrine or other cold medicines
    > have this effect?
    >
    > Thank you all in advance, Cat who is really bummed out
     
  5. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, chris
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I needed fitness badly, so I went back to the basics.
    >
    > 10-12 hrs/week (most on the trainer - 2 hrs at a time usually), with a mix of high intensity short
    > (1 min or less) intervals, easy riding, STR work on the bike, tempo work and a touch of threshold
    > after 3 weeks.

    This sounds strangely familiar. :)

    > Regarding your drug question, the research is pretty clear: Ephedra imporves high intensity
    > sustained activity (30 sec or more) and does little for endurance. The small increase in HR could
    > be a detriment, but probably has little effect overall.

    If the stroke volume remained the same wouldn't the increased HR cause more blood to be moved
    through the system?

    -WG
     
  6. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    "chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I would agree with Pedalchik here. I see a lot of people make this mistake, not the leastof which
    > was Jan Ullrich. It is best to focus on weight loss OR fitness and not both at once. I also see
    > you doing far too much LT and long interval work early in the season. Taken together, you are
    > lucky it wasn't much worse. Most riders overlook the need of short intervals early in the year and
    > never bridge that gap later. Regarding your fitness question, though, I can speak from very recent
    > personal experience.

    I don't understand this....isn't the point of training improved fitness? So why not improve fitness
    and undergo a slight calorie restriction to lose weight at the same time? And I always thought that
    you should do longer interval training earlier in the season and progress to shorter anaerobic
    efforts closer to racing season (I usually start these in April). Am I wrong in this? Don't forget,
    I ride all year, so to do long, easy rides
    (ie: the weird "base training" thing) seems counterproductive to me. It's not as if I ever *stop*
    riding, I just go a little easier in November/December. I typically range between 8000-10000
    miles per year.

    > I had a good level of fitness at the end of November, but then suffered a pretty bad ankle sprain
    > and then picked up the flu 5 days later (the one-two punch). Needless to say, when I retested
    > myself on the 31st of December my fitness was gone. To make matters worse the weather was horribly
    > cold in New England and I was leaving for a coaching foray with clients in California. I needed
    > fitness badly, so I went back to the basics.

    That's a bummer for me....sounds as if you started back all over again.

    >
    > 10-12 hrs/week (most on the trainer - 2 hrs at a time usually), with a mix of high intensity short
    > (1 min or less) intervals, easy riding, STR work on the bike, tempo work and a touch of threshold
    > after 3 weeks. [Note: Windtrainer rides are much tougher than rode miles, so don't be afraid to
    > cut back or rest more.] I knew I would be in the hole in California, but once there I rode about
    > everyday for an average of 3 hrs per day with some (short) interval days. I retested myself when I
    > got back and saw a 40% improvement.

    I did do some days where the intervals were shorter, but I don't see the point of doing a lot of
    base miles (junk miles?) when I never stopped riding all year.

    >
    > The lesson here is that much of your fitness is probably gone, but not forgotten. Stick with an
    > easier schedule and more base fitness (LT fine tunes fitness, making it a poor choice for base
    > training - ie, a little goes a long way). I would also skip the dieting and maybe take a look at
    > the South Beach Diet, you can learn a lot about eating from
    > it. If you have specific training questions, contact me.

    Darn. What HR zone do you envision for this base training period? Also, I eat very, very well. Lots
    of lean protein, high fiber carbs, fruits and veggies, which is sort of a natural South Beach diet
    for me (Phase 2 and on). All I do when I want to get superlean is limit my calories a reasonable
    amount so that I have a slight caloric deficit every day. I do factor in for aerobic activity, but
    not for weight training.

    >
    > Regarding your drug question, the research is pretty clear: Ephedra imporves high intensity
    > sustained activity (30 sec or more) and does little for endurance. The small increase in HR could
    > be a detriment, but probably has little effect overall.

    Would cold medicines have the same effect? (I want to avoid an artificial increase in HR).

    Thank you so much for your time in writing a great, informative response, even though you made me a
    bit bummed about the loss of fitness :<

    Cat

    >
    > Good Luck, Chris Harnish, M.S. Exercise Physiologist & Coach People Cycle, Inc.
    > www.peoplecycle.org
    >
    >
    > "Cat Dailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > A few quick q's for the experts here...
    > >
    > > I had been training pretty hard for about 6-8 weeks (new year and all
    that).
    > > Dieting, LT threshold rides, longer interval training, etc. I had put
    in
    > > about 815 miles (road and trainer) between Jan 1 and Feb 19. I raised
    my LT
    > > from around 163 bpm to somewhere between 170-174 (I think my max is 181-183).
    > >
    > > I contracted a BAD respiratory virus two weeks ago and didn't ride for
    12
    > > days, when I barely managed to do 45 min easy on the trainer on day 12
    and
    > > did 52 miles this morning (day 14).
    > >
    > > I am still slightly sick and am seeing the doc again today.
    > >
    > > My Q's: Since I began a layoff at a fairly high fitness level, will I
    lose
    > > as much fitness as I would if I was less trained? How much fitness
    should
    > > I expect to lose (I was afraid to wear a HR monitor today...I didn't
    want to
    > > see those numbers!) How long will it take me to regain the same fitness level given a two week
    > > layoff?
    > >
    > > Drug q: I know that ephedra/caffeine is supposed to have some sort of a performance benefit. I
    > > also know that ephedra raises heart rate. If a rider has an LT of 170, but takes e/c, which
    > > artificially raises HR,
    say, 5
    > > bpm, wouldn't there be a performance detriment (rider would go anaerobic sooner due to
    > > artificially boosted hr?)??? Does pseudephedrine or other cold medicines have this effect?
    > >
    > > Thank you all in advance, Cat who is really bummed out
     
  7. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

  8. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:040320040856150323%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, chris
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I needed fitness badly, so I went back to the basics.
    > >
    > > 10-12 hrs/week (most on the trainer - 2 hrs at a time usually), with a mix of high intensity
    > > short (1 min or less) intervals, easy riding, STR work on the bike, tempo work and a touch of
    > > threshold after 3 weeks.
    >
    > This sounds strangely familiar. :)
    >
    > > Regarding your drug question, the research is pretty clear: Ephedra imporves high intensity
    > > sustained activity (30 sec or more) and does little for endurance. The small increase in HR
    > > could be a detriment, but probably has little effect overall.
    >
    > If the stroke volume remained the same wouldn't the increased HR cause more blood to be moved
    > through the system?
    >
    > -WG

    I was thinking more in terms of perceived exertion...the elevated HR might make the effort seem
    harder than it ordinarily would, no?

    Cat
     
  9. pedalchick

    pedalchick New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    That was my question exactly when I read that response. I do the same thing - after race season I don't completely quit exercising, I just don't do any intensity at all for a couple months, and then start back with sub-LT long intervals and leg strength drills, and then work my way up to short high intensity intervals just before race season starts.

    Anyhow, Cat, don't be too despondent. Sounds like Chris was off the bike for a month. You've only been off two weeks, and your fitness won't be completely gone. I'd say you'll feel kind of behind for a couple weeks, but if you have an excellent base of fitness from riding year 'round for several years, I can't see where you'll be back at square one.

    There was just an article on Velonews about that heart virus thingy:
    http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/5567.0.html

    Not to freak you out or anything.... The adage I've always heard is if you're sick, you can train if it's above the neck but you need to rest if it's in your chest.

    Working in a gym, I'm sure you're aware, is like being in a germ factory. I'd be sure to wash your hands a lot and never, ever, touch your eyes unless your hands are clean. I read somewhere respectable that most viruses take hold through your tear ducts (when you rub your eyes or someone sneezes in your face). Has anyone else ever heard this?

    Happy training,
    PC
     
  10. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > That sucks. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd go back to base training for a
    > week or two before doing LT work again. You have to be very careful with those respiratory viruses
    > - there's a chance you can have some sort of nasty infection in your heart that can screw you up
    > royally. Make sure you're good and well before going out of the aerobic zone - it's still early
    > enough in the season to get back up to speed. If you rush, you could end up sicker and screwing up
    > your entire summer.
    >
    I agree - I got a very nasty virus at the end of January which laid me up for 10 days. I had to have
    a few tests done on my heart (which I've never had problems with!) b/c the doctors were rather
    concerned. They thought it was an inflammation of the heart which was caused by the virus, and told
    me not to do any hard efforts/competition for at least four weeks or there was a risk I could drop
    dead. I followed their advice, just in case it was on the money ;-)

    I was still allowed to ride, so used the time to do some low-medium intensity training. It's been
    four weeks so I should be ok now, but it's a bit early in the season for me to be going gung ho at
    the moment. That said, today's "recon" over the Kwaremont, Paterberg, Koppenberg, etc. was somewhat
    unscheduled and it hurt, but in a nice and normal way. Luckily it was cold, wet and muddy or I'm
    sure I would have dehydrated in this harsh Belgian sun. Scratch: 1 headset, 1 chain, 1 cluster.

    cheers, Jeff
     
  11. On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:56:53 +1100, Jeff Jones wrote:
    > today's "recon" over the Kwaremont, Paterberg, Koppenberg, etc. was somewhat unscheduled and it
    > hurt, but in a nice and normal way. Luckily it was cold, wet and muddy or I'm sure I would have
    > dehydrated in this harsh Belgian sun. Scratch: 1 headset,

    What, from the cobble-bouncing, or sweating in those tropical temperatures?

    > 1 chain, 1 cluster.
     
  12. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:56:53 +1100, Jeff Jones wrote:
    > > today's "recon" over the Kwaremont, Paterberg, Koppenberg, etc. was
    somewhat
    > > unscheduled and it hurt, but in a nice and normal way. Luckily it was
    cold,
    > > wet and muddy or I'm sure I would have dehydrated in this harsh Belgian
    sun.
    > > Scratch: 1 headset,
    >
    > What, from the cobble-bouncing, or sweating in those tropical temperatures?
    >
    Cobble bouncing. Years of accumulated abuse to this poor headset. Adjusting it to "just right" means
    that it comes loose after 2km. Overtightening it affects the steering too badly. It's way past its
    use-by date.

    The chain/cluster have survived 5 months, including a month of generally crappy weather here. Gotta
    love that salt and snow.

    Damn, forgot the sunscreen *again* today.

    Jeff
     
  13. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The chain/cluster have survived 5 months, including a month of generally crappy weather here.
    > Gotta love that salt and snow.

    Try ProLink.
     
  14. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Cat Dailey wrote:
    > > "chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:a7157f5e.04030-
    > >
    [email protected]:[email protected] <lots snipped>

    > > I don't understand this....isn't the point of training improved
    fitness?
    > > So why not improve fitness and undergo a slight calorie restriction to lose weight at the same
    > > time? And I always thought that you should do longer interval training earlier in the season
    > > and progress to shorter anaerobic efforts closer to racing season (I usually start these in
    > > April). Am I wrong in this? Don't forget, I ride all year, so to do long, easy rides
    > > (ie: the weird "base training" thing) seems counterproductive to me. It's not as if I ever
    > > *stop* riding, I just go a little easier in November/December. I typically range between
    > > 8000-10000 miles per year.
    > > >
    >
    >
    >
    > That was my question exactly when I read that response. I do the same thing - after race season I
    > don't completely quit exercising, I just don't do any intensity at all for a couple months, and
    > then start back with sub-LT long intervals and leg strength drills, and then work my way up to
    > short high intensity intervals just before race season starts.
    >
    > Anyhow, Cat, don't be too despondent. Sounds like Chris was off the bike for a month. You've only
    > been off two weeks, and your fitness won't be completely gone. I'd say you'll feel kind of behind
    > for a couple weeks, but if you have an excellent base of fitness from riding year 'round for
    > several years, I can't see where you'll be back at square one.

    Thanks for the good thoughts. It's going on week #3 and a second course of antibiotics (I probably
    shouldn't ride until they are finished), but the good news is the chest x-ray showed no pneumonia.
    I'll just have to hold off for about 5 more days, I think.

    >
    > There was just an article on Velonews about that heart virus thingy: ht- tp://www.velonews.com/train/articles/5567.0.htmlhttp://www.velonews.com-
    > /train/articles/5567.0.html

    That's scary because of my mitral valve prolapse/heart murmur thingy, for which I take antibiotics
    anyway before anything invasive.

    >
    > Not to freak you out or anything.... The adage I've always heard is if you're sick, you can train
    > if it's above the neck but you need to rest if it's in your chest.
    >
    > Working in a gym, I'm sure you're aware, is like being in a germ factory. I'd be sure to wash your
    > hands a lot and never, ever, touch your eyes unless your hands are clean. I read somewhere
    > respectable that most viruses take hold through your tear ducts (when you rub your eyes or someone
    > sneezes in your face). Has anyone else ever heard this?
    >

    es, I have heard that as well, and I must wash my hands 20 times a day. I am really careful not to
    touch my face, either, but most of these viruses are airborne, esp. when people are sweating,
    coughing, and sneezing.

    Thanks PC,

    Cat
     
  15. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > That sucks. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd go back to base training for a
    > > week or two before doing LT work again. You have to be very careful with those respiratory
    > > viruses - there's a chance you can have some sort of nasty infection in your heart that can
    > > screw you up royally. Make sure you're good and well before going out of the aerobic zone - it's
    > > still early enough in the season to get back up to speed. If you rush, you could end up sicker
    > > and screwing up your entire summer.
    > >
    > I agree - I got a very nasty virus at the end of January which laid me up for 10 days. I had to
    > have a few tests done on my heart (which I've never had problems with!) b/c the doctors were
    > rather concerned. They thought it was an inflammation of the heart which was caused by the virus,
    > and told
    me
    > not to do any hard efforts/competition for at least four weeks or there
    was
    > a risk I could drop dead. I followed their advice, just in case it was on the money ;-)
    >
    > I was still allowed to ride, so used the time to do some low-medium intensity training. It's been
    > four weeks so I should be ok now, but it's a bit early in the season for me to be going gung ho at
    > the moment. That
    said,
    > today's "recon" over the Kwaremont, Paterberg, Koppenberg, etc. was
    somewhat
    > unscheduled and it hurt, but in a nice and normal way. Luckily it was
    cold,
    > wet and muddy or I'm sure I would have dehydrated in this harsh Belgian
    sun.
    > Scratch: 1 headset, 1 chain, 1 cluster.
    >
    > cheers, Jeff

    Darn, I am jealous. IF only it was 10 days, and if only I could have had a ride like yours
    today. Eastern PA near Philadelphia is not nearly so dramatic not scenic as Belgium, home of the
    hard man ;>

    Cat
     
  16. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Cat Dailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > That sucks. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd go back to base training for a
    > > > week or two before doing LT work again. You have to be very careful with those respiratory
    > > > viruses - there's a chance you can have some sort of nasty infection in your heart that can
    > > > screw you up royally. Make sure you're good and well before going out of the aerobic zone -
    > > > it's still early enough in the season to get back up to speed. If you rush, you could end up
    > > > sicker and screwing up your entire summer.
    > > >
    > > I agree - I got a very nasty virus at the end of January which laid me
    up
    > > for 10 days. I had to have a few tests done on my heart (which I've
    never
    > > had problems with!) b/c the doctors were rather concerned. They thought
    it
    > > was an inflammation of the heart which was caused by the virus, and told
    > me
    > > not to do any hard efforts/competition for at least four weeks or there
    > was
    > > a risk I could drop dead. I followed their advice, just in case it was
    on
    > > the money ;-)
    > >
    > > I was still allowed to ride, so used the time to do some low-medium intensity training. It's
    > > been four weeks so I should be ok now, but it's
    a
    > > bit early in the season for me to be going gung ho at the moment. That
    > said,
    > > today's "recon" over the Kwaremont, Paterberg, Koppenberg, etc. was
    > somewhat
    > > unscheduled and it hurt, but in a nice and normal way. Luckily it was
    > cold,
    > > wet and muddy or I'm sure I would have dehydrated in this harsh Belgian
    > sun.
    > > Scratch: 1 headset, 1 chain, 1 cluster.
    > >
    > > cheers, Jeff
    >
    > Darn, I am jealous. IF only it was 10 days, and if only I could have had
    a
    > ride like yours today. Eastern PA near Philadelphia is not nearly so dramatic not scenic as
    > Belgium, home of the hard man ;>
    >
    > Cat

    But there are more heart shaped tubs and mirrored walls than any place else this side of
    Intercourse. Not that that would interest a Belgian hard man. Please let Spring come soon.........
     
  17. Clovis Lark

    Clovis Lark Guest

  18. Chris

    Chris Guest

    warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<040320040856150323%[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, chris
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I needed fitness badly, so I went back to the basics.
    > >
    > > 10-12 hrs/week (most on the trainer - 2 hrs at a time usually), with a mix of high intensity
    > > short (1 min or less) intervals, easy riding, STR work on the bike, tempo work and a touch of
    > > threshold after 3 weeks.
    >
    > This sounds strangely familiar. :)

    It should, I don't flip flop on my view point. It often seems like many of my clients do similar
    programs early in the year and its largely because they're all in the hole on the anaerobic
    capacity side of things. Is it any wonder why som many of us struggle with sprinting? More on this
    in another thread.

    > > Regarding your drug question, the research is pretty clear: Ephedra imporves high intensity
    > > sustained activity (30 sec or more) and does little for endurance. The small increase in HR
    > > could be a detriment, but probably has little effect overall.
    >
    > If the stroke volume remained the same wouldn't the increased HR cause more blood to be moved
    > through the system?

    Well, perhaps in theory, but that doesn't seem to be what we see in the literature. In fact,
    amphetamines fail to improve performance (ie, VO2 max, time to exhaustion etc...) either, yet riders
    swore by them. Perhaps their benefit is related to CNS faitgue, which is why caffeine or ephedra
    could enhance performance, but their isn't a whole lot of evidence to support this. However, there
    is ample evidence of their positive influence on short, intense performance.

    In either case, to quell the doubters here, I took a little time to actually search the literature
    and I found (among other things): Hunter et al. said Caffeine ingestion does not alter performance
    during a 100-km cycling time-trial performance.

    Shekelle et al. stated (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_u-
    ids=12672771&dopt=Abstract): CONCLUSIONS: Ephedrine and ephedra promote modest short-term weight
    loss (approximately 0.9 kg/mo more than placebo) in clinical trials. There are no data regarding long-
    term weight loss, and evidence to support use of ephedra for athletic performance is insufficient.
    Use of ephedra or ephedrine and caffeine is associated with increased risk of psychiatric,
    autonomic, or gastrointestinal symptoms, and heart palpitations.

    Bell et al. suggested ephedra improved 10 k runs, but caffeine + Ephedra didn't do much.

    Bell et al. found that: Ephedrine increased power output during the early phase of the Wingate
    test, whereas C increased time to exhaustion and O(2) deficit during the MAOD test. C, E, and C+E
    increased blood lactate, glucose, and catecholamine levels. CONCLUSION: The improvement in
    anaerobic exercise performance is likely a result of both stimulation of the CNS by E and skeletal
    muscle by C.

    Having reviewed the last paper, I'm fairly familiar with the topic. So I'll go out on a limb and say
    that ephedra probably has little effect. I.E., I personally would not bother taking it. I don't
    think the small increase in HR would greatly improve performance, and could hurt it. If simply
    increasing HR led to improvement, then a high max HR would positiviely correlate to performance.

    CH
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Guest

    > I don't understand this....isn't the point of training improved fitness? So why not improve
    > fitness and undergo a slight calorie restriction to lose weight at the same time?

    It depends on your training. A lot of low intensity (some higher intensity) training is fine, but
    your regime sounded rather strenuous and caloric restiction doesn't work well with high volumes of
    intense training. Whether this was why you got sick can't be said, but it may have contributed

    And I always thought that you should do longer
    > interval training earlier in the season and progress to shorter anaerobic efforts closer to racing
    > season (I usually start these in April). Am I wrong in this? Don't forget, I ride all year, so to
    > do long, easy rides
    > (ie: the weird "base training" thing) seems counterproductive to me. It's not as if I ever *stop*
    > riding, I just go a little easier in November/December. I typically range between 8000-10000
    > miles per year. I did do some days where the intervals were shorter, but I don't see the
    > point of doing a lot of base miles (junk miles?) when I never stopped riding all year.

    It is a common misconception that somehow the body can't handle short intervals. I fell for this one
    for numerous years and its bullsh#t. I actually find some of the stuff I read online humorous
    because its so far fetched. In fact, I would argue the other way around, but that's just because I
    have my own views on training. I would say that you should always focus on short then long and move
    away from revolving your training around threshold (another misconcetion). There is no magic
    intensity, and actually, threshold training is more strenuous than 1 minute intervals.

    Another misconception is that base miles are "junk" miles. Glen Swan loved to talked about how you
    only training yourself slow, but not everyone can come out in April and ride hard. The fact is, base
    miles help you build on the high intensity training and vice versa. To go fast you need to go REALLY
    FAST for less time.

    >That's a bummer for me....sounds as if you started back all over
    again.

    Well not exactly. I should point out that I was not laid up for a month. I actually lost about 2
    weeks solid, like you. And, as Booth showed in 1977, two weeks of detraining sets you back almost to
    zero, at least from an enzyme standpoint, and cardiac function, as well as blood volume. However,
    you do have those capillaries and the neural pathways are intact. The point is, if you tested
    yourself, you're at near zero, but it comes back quick, so stay focused and reasonable and you'll
    move abck up fast.

    > Darn. What HR zone do you envision for this base training period? Also, I eat very, very well.
    > Lots of lean protein, high fiber carbs, fruits and veggies, which is sort of a natural South Beach
    > diet for me (Phase 2 and on). All I do when I want to get superlean is limit my calories a
    > reasonable amount so that I have a slight caloric deficit every day. I do factor in for aerobic
    > activity, but not for weight training.

    Assuming your LT zone is correct, anything up to 160-165. Blocks of tempo work are good and break
    the monotony. They also are quite effective at raising LT without being as stessful.

    > Would cold medicines have the same effect? (I want to avoid an artificial increase in HR).

    Not really. Cold meds use pseudoephedrine which is super weak. You won't get much buzz at all.

    > Thank you so much for your time in writing a great, informative response, even though you made me
    > a bit bummed about the loss of fitness :<

    Don't be. I actually look at it as a new challenge and a chance to try a new approach. Now that I
    care less about race results I'm not afraid to try just about anything in training. If it works,
    I'll try it with a client, if not, I toss it. Look at this as a new challenge and you'll be more
    focused; its just one more hurdle. :~)=>..

    Best wishes, Chris
     
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