Fixed BB cup removal



R

Rick Onanian

Guest
1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to
remove it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.

I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin spanner,
but the cup is very well hardened.

To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount
it somewhere farther from the wall...

Per http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html the nut-washers-
bolt tool like http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/images/bbtool-
bolt.jpg tightens real good on the bike, but with _lots_ of
torque, continues only to tighten to itself, never turning
the BB cup. It's probably a
1/2" bolt, with a single flat washer on each side.

Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other
tricks for removing it?
--
Rick "Maybe a BFH" Onanian
 
Rick Onanian wrote:
> 1974 Raleigh Sport.

That's "Sports" not "Sport."

> Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to remove it, but I
> don't want it to defeat me either.
>
> I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin
> spanner, but the cup is very well hardened.
>
> To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount
> it somewhere farther from the wall...
>
> Per http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html the nut-washers-
> bolt tool like http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/images/bbtool-
> bolt.jpg tightens real good on the bike, but with _lots_
> of torque, continues only to tighten to itself, never
> turning the BB cup. It's probably a
> 1/2" bolt, with a single flat washer on each side.

That may not be strong enough, these are in there really
tight. The fixed cup is not intended to be removed for
maintenance, only for the rare occasions when replacement
is needed.

> Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other
> tricks for removing it?

That's a left thread. Removing it by tightening the nut on
the outside of the bottom bracket, if you're using the bolt
trick as illustrated.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom for
the BB specs.

Sheldon "Nottingham" Brown +--------------------------------------------------------
+
| One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. | --
| Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com
http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Rick Onanian wrote:

> 1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need
> to remove it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.
>
> I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin
> spanner, but the cup is very well hardened.
>
> To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount
> it somewhere farther from the wall...

> Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other
> tricks for removing it?

A proper fixed cup spanner has always worked for me, but I
expect they're getting hard to find in these days of Shimano
BBs. I'd offer to give you mine, but it's got my 15mm pedal
spanner on the other end!

It's a LH thread by the way, so you must turn clockwise.
 
Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> 1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need
> to remove it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.
>
> I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin
> spanner, but the cup is very well hardened.
>
> To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount
> it somewhere farther from the wall...
>

[snip non-vise material]

Dear Rick,

You lucky devil! This sounds like a perfect opportunity to
invest in one of these vises, which rotate in two planes:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?item-
number=5655

It's a bit like a bicycle workstand.

Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and little will
defeat it. I bought mine a few years ago when my old vise
mistook me for Chalo Colina and broke. Couldn't be happier.

Viciously,

Carl Fogel

Harbor Freight often puts it on sale for $10 less.
 
Rick Onanian wrote:
>
>> 1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need
>> to remove it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.
>>
>> I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin
>> spanner, but the cup is very well hardened.
>>
>> To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and
>> mount it somewhere farther from the wall...
>
>
>> Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other
>> tricks for removing it?
>
I already answered this in an earlier posting.

Zog The Undeniable wrote:

> A proper fixed cup spanner has always worked for me, but I
> expect they're getting hard to find in these days of
> Shimano BBs. I'd offer to give you mine, but it's got my
> 15mm pedal spanner on the other end!

Those won't fit Rick's Raleigh 26 TPI cups, because they
don't have the protruding lip with 36 mm flats of a standard
fixed cup.

Instead, the face of the cup has a raised ridge 5/8" (16
mm) wide by
1/16" (1.6 mm) tall. There's probably a special tool for
this buried in the rubble of what used to be the largest
bicycle factory in the world, in Nottingham, but I've
never seen one.

Small hand wrenches exist for this, such as the Park HCW-
11, but they are not sufficiently manly to work on the
fixed cups.

See: http://www.parktool.com/tools/HCW_11BIG.shtml

Sheldon "Big Bolt" Brown +----------------------------------------------------
---------+
| If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
| --BOB Simon |
+-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com
http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Carl Fogel wrote:

> Dear Rick,
>
> You lucky devil! This sounds like a perfect opportunity to
> invest in one of these vises, which rotate in two planes:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?it-
> emnumber=5655
>
> It's a bit like a bicycle workstand.
>
> Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and little will
> defeat it. I bought mine a few years ago when my old vise
> mistook me for Chalo Colina and broke. Couldn't be
> happier.

Ooooh, I've got one of these, but my previous source doesn't
have them anymore. Delighted to find a new source.

This is a wonderful piece of Stalinist machinery...no great
precision, not really high quality but LOTS and LOTS of
metal to make up for it.

I just love mine, and the hex jaws are perfect for holding a
freewheel puller (I did have to drill out the area under
those jaws for axle clearance though.)

Be prepared that the freight may cost as much as the vise,
but it's still a fabulous value.

Sheldon "Solidity" Brown +-----------------------------------------------
+
| I don't need instructions, I have a hammer. | --
| T.W. Wier |
+-----------------------------------------------+ BOB
11/9/98, 7/22/01, 3/8/02 Classic 1/25/02 CRW 10/19/97
2/26/04 RBM Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-
find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com
http://sheldonbrown.com
 
<SNIP>
Carl Fogel posted:
"invest in one of these vises, which rotate in two planes:
http://www.harborfreight.com ..... Item number 5655
It's a bit like a bicycle workstand.

Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and little will
defeat it. I bought mine a few years ago when my old vise mistook me for Chalo Colina and broke. Couldn't be
happier."
____________________________________________________
Then Sheldon chimed in:

" Ooooh, I've got one of these, but my previous source doesn't
have them anymore. Delighted to find a new source.

This is a wonderful piece of Stalinist machinery...no great
precision, not really high quality but LOTS and LOTS of
metal to make up for it.

I just love mine, and the hex jaws are perfect for holding a
freewheel puller (I did have to drill out the area under
those jaws for axle clearance though.)

Be prepared that the freight may cost as much as the vise,
but it's still a fabulous value."

Sheldon "Solidity" Brown +-----------------------------------------------
<SNIP>


Harbor Freight has interesting ways of doing business. Pay less freight as you buy more. You don't pay more than an handling feee when your order is $50 or more. Since the vice is $49+.... just order something else you want and shipping is NADA

I feel like "Tim the tool man"
...grunt .... grunt.... grunt.... well, you get the idea
 
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:43:17 -0500, Sheldon Brown
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Rick Onanian wrote:
>> 1974 Raleigh Sport.
>That's "Sports" not "Sport."

I stand corrected.

>That may not be strong enough, these are in there really
>tight. The fixed cup is not intended to be removed for
>maintenance, only for the rare occasions when replacement
>is needed.

I ended up adding two additional washers on the nut side,
and it was sufficient. Once again, I forgot to measure the
bolt before posting, but it's head and nut are 9/16"; so in
fact, it's shank is 3/8".

With the extra washers, removal required lots of torque, but
was successful -- apparently without damaging anything other
than washers.

Now that I've conquered it...anybody want a dark green
mixte 1974 Raleigh Sports frame? It was picked up for me at
a yard sale, for me to scavenge the hub and a couple other
items. I don't intend to use the frame. I will, of course,
be happy to put the cups back in now that I've shown them
who's boss...

It looks much like
http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/86/61/e0_1_b.JPG but is not
nearly as clean or shiny.

>+--------------------------------------------------------+
>| One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. | --
>| Robert A. Heinlein |
>+--------------------------------------------------------+

You can't go wrong quoting Heinlein at me.
--
Rick Onanian
 
Originally posted by daveornee
<SNIP>
Carl Fogel posted:
"invest in one of these vises, which rotate in two planes:
http://www.harborfreight.com ..... Item number 5655
It's a bit like a bicycle workstand.

Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and little will
defeat it. I bought mine a few years ago when my old vise mistook me for Chalo Colina and broke. Couldn't be
happier."
____________________________________________________
Then Sheldon chimed in:

" Ooooh, I've got one of these, but my previous source doesn't
have them anymore. Delighted to find a new source.

This is a wonderful piece of Stalinist machinery...no great
precision, not really high quality but LOTS and LOTS of
metal to make up for it.

I just love mine, and the hex jaws are perfect for holding a
freewheel puller (I did have to drill out the area under
those jaws for axle clearance though.)

Be prepared that the freight may cost as much as the vise,
but it's still a fabulous value."

Sheldon "Solidity" Brown +-----------------------------------------------
<SNIP>


Harbor Freight has interesting ways of doing business. Pay less freight as you buy more. You don't pay more than an handling feee when your order is $50 or more. Since the vice is $49+.... just order something else you want and shipping is NADA

I feel like "Tim the tool man"
...grunt .... grunt.... grunt.... well, you get the idea

Dear Sheldon and Dave,

Like Leona, self-absorbed and undeservedly
fortunate people like me tend to forget you
little people, who pay freight charges, taxes,
and so forth.

You see, my Harbor Freight store is less than
five minutes away, closer than the grocery store.

Oh, dear, I just looked--no Harbor Freight stores
in all of Massachusetts. None in Western Springs,
Illinois, either.

(Pause for unseemly gloating.)

What it makes it all the sweeter is that Pueblo's
Harbor Freight took over the site of King Lumber,
an alleged hardware store whose outrages still
cause my blood pressure to rise.

("Sorry, we can't sell you that dusty garage door
spring that you spent half an hour finding because
it hasn't been inventoried yet--come back next
week.")

So even when Harbor Freight doesn't have what I'm
looking for, I still get to enjoy a vengeful little dance
on my way out over the grave of King Lumber.

Carl Fogel
 
Rick Onanian wrote:

> 1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need
> to remove it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.
>
> I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin
> spanner, but the cup is very well hardened.
>
> To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount
> it somewhere farther from the wall...
>
> Per http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html the
> nut-washers-bolt tool like http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/images/bbtool-
> bolt.jpg tightens real good on the bike, but with _lots_
> of torque, continues only to tighten to itself, never
> turning the BB cup. It's probably a
> 1/2" bolt, with a single flat washer on each side.
>
> Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other
> tricks for removing it?
> --
> Rick "Maybe a BFH" Onanian

The Raleigh Sports in 1974 has a painted-in right cup . The
lip is small and the cup was mounted before the frame was
painted. The cup has 16mm=5/8" flats. Raleigh's tool bolts
through the BB holding the cup firmly from both sides and is
driven from its 1-1/8" wrench flats.

So use a BFW not a BFH. It removes clockwise, 1.370x26tpi

(When using a vise, hang the frame out from the workbench,
swing a small arc and reposition.)
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971
 
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:31:48 +0000, carlfogel wrote:

To get back to the question (even though that is a nice
vice), Rick: you definitely need some sort of vice for
this. The Raleigh, one would hope, would have English
threads (stands to reason), which means that cup has left-
hand threads.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | ...nor shall any state deprive any person of life,
liberty, or _`\(,_ | property, without due process of
law; nor deny to any person (_)/ (_) | within its
jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. --
Fourteenth Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.
 
David L. Johnson writes:

> To get back to the question (even though that is a nice
> vice), Rick: you definitely need some sort of vice for
> this. The Raleigh, one would hope, would have English
> threads (stands to reason), which means that cup has left-
> hand threads.

I think we should leave such legal sins for the vice squad,
while we use a vise in the shop to loosen right hand BB
cup... all the while noticing whether it has a right or left
hand thread. Watching for this helps enormously.

Jobst Brandt [email protected]
 
David L. Johnson wrote:
> To get back to the question (even though that is a nice
> vice), Rick: you definitely need some sort of vice for
> this. The Raleigh, one would hope, would have English
> threads (stands to reason), which means that cup has left-
> hand threads.
>
The proper tool bolts through the frame and is driven with a
1-1/8" wrench. No vise.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971
 
A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> David L. Johnson wrote:
> > To get back to the question (even though that is a nice
> > vice), Rick: you definitely need some sort of vice for
> > this. The Raleigh, one would hope, would have English
> > threads (stands to reason), which means that cup has left-
> > hand threads.
> >
> The proper tool bolts through the frame and is driven with
> a 1-1/8" wrench. No vise.

And use a "heavy" hammer to tap the wrench end to loosen. If
that doesn't work, I will not bad mouth Campy again, oh.
 
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I think we should leave such legal sins for the vice
>squad, while we use a vise in the shop to loosen right
>hand BB cup...

In American English, sure, but over here it's a vice.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill
the tomato!
 
David Damerell wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I think we should leave such legal sins for the vice
>>squad, while we use a vise in the shop to loosen right
>>hand BB cup...
>
>
> In American English, sure, but over here it's a vice.

Therefore, moral Englishmen use cartridge bottom
brackets. ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)