fixed gear revisited

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Swampy, Nov 30, 2003.

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  1. Swampy

    Swampy Guest

    after reading Sheldon's website I'm curious...can I do this:

    thread a track cog onto my road wheelset and go with that? Am I missing something?

    I want to turn an old bike into a fixed gear as cheaply as possible...it's got dura ace 9
    speed hubs.
     
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  2. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    Swampy <[email protected]> writes:

    > after reading Sheldon's website I'm curious...can I do this:
    >
    > thread a track cog onto my road wheelset and go with that? Am I missing something?

    If your road wheel has a freewheel type hub rather than a cassette hub.

    > I want to turn an old bike into a fixed gear as cheaply as possible...it's got dura ace 9
    > speed hubs.

    An "old" bike with DA 9sp? We have different definitions of "old." This is a cassette wheel and you
    can't thread a fixed cog onto it. You can, however, buy a modified cassette body that will replace
    your old cassette. ISTR seeing one at the Surly Bikes Web site.

    Tim "my fixed gears are 20 and 24 years old" McNamara
     
  3. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Swampy wrote:

    > after reading Sheldon's website I'm curious...can I do this:
    >
    > thread a track cog onto my road wheelset and go with that? Am I missing something?
    >
    > I want to turn an old bike into a fixed gear as cheaply as possible...it's got dura ace 9
    > speed hubs.

    You can't screw a cog onto a DA-9 cassette body. There are no threads on the outside!

    But you _can_ remove the body, braze the thing together so the body no longer ratchets, and
    reinstall your cassette body on the hub. Then choose a single splined cassette cog which is not an
    11 and get seven or eight scrap nylon cassette spacers. (from dead cassettes) Put the cog on the
    body using the spacers to adjust the chainline, add the lockring and go!

    There's a product which replace your cassette body to adapt your hub to a genuine track thread with
    a lockring.
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  4. swampy-<< thread a track cog onto my road wheelset and go with that? Am I missing something?
    >><BR><BR>

    << it's got dura ace 9 speed hubs. >><BR><BR>

    Nope, not this rear hub. You can make it single speed, with spacers and one cog but not 'fixie'. Ya
    need a freewheel type rear hub for that.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  5. In article <[email protected]>, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Swampy wrote:
    >
    > > after reading Sheldon's website I'm curious...can I do this:
    > >
    > > thread a track cog onto my road wheelset and go with that? Am I missing something?
    > >
    > > I want to turn an old bike into a fixed gear as cheaply as possible...it's got dura ace 9
    > > speed hubs.
    >
    > You can't screw a cog onto a DA-9 cassette body. There are no threads on the outside!
    >
    > But you _can_ remove the body, braze the thing together so the body no longer ratchets, and
    > reinstall your cassette body on the hub. Then choose a single splined cassette cog which is not an
    > 11 and get seven or eight scrap nylon cassette spacers. (from dead cassettes) Put the cog on the
    > body using the spacers to adjust the chainline, add the lockring and go!
    >
    > There's a product which replace your cassette body to adapt your hub to a genuine track thread
    > with a lockring.

    But but but...If you're just looking to do a fixie conversion, freewheel hub-equipped wheels are
    practically lying around most neighbourhoods, frequently attached to entire bicycles and available
    for $0-10.

    I have a fixed-gear project bike on my back porch right now. The only parts on it for which I paid
    actual money are the fixed gear cog and the chain.

    Scrounging is good,
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  6. Ant

    Ant Guest

    A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > But you _can_ remove the body, braze the thing together so the body no longer ratchets, and
    > reinstall your cassette body on the hub. Then choose a single splined cassette cog which is not an
    > 11 and get seven or eight scrap nylon cassette spacers. (from dead cassettes) Put the cog on the
    > body using the spacers to adjust the chainline, add the lockring and go!

    interesting. i was thinking of doing this a while back. i take it you have done this before? did you
    dissassemble the FH to get the greases and oils out? or just nuke her and get a lot of flux in? does
    it hold up? (although i cant see why it woudlnt with a decent braze job)

    anthony
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    -snip cassette nine to fixed?-
    > A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >>But you _can_ remove the body, braze the thing together so the body no longer ratchets, and
    >>reinstall your cassette body on the hub. Then choose a single splined cassette cog which is not an
    >>11 and get seven or eight scrap nylon cassette spacers. (from dead cassettes) Put the cog on the
    >>body using the spacers to adjust the chainline, add the lockring and go!

    ant wrote:
    > interesting. i was thinking of doing this a while back. i take it you have done this before? did
    > you dissassemble the FH to get the greases and oils out? or just nuke her and get a lot of flux
    > in? does it hold up? (although i cant see why it woudlnt with a decent braze job)

    One risks ruining the temper of the right side main bearing cup. Otherwise flush with solvent and
    braze - it's quick. Remove _all_ the plastic bits first!

    I have _not_ done that job - only the brazing part for someone else who thought Suzue hubs
    overpriced. That's not my opinion!

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  8. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    <snip>

    > But but but...If you're just looking to do a fixie conversion, freewheel hub-equipped wheels are
    > practically lying around most neighbourhoods, frequently attached to entire bicycles and available
    > for $0-10.

    I'm with you on this one!
    >
    > I have a fixed-gear project bike on my back porch right now. The only parts on it for which I paid
    > actual money are the fixed gear cog and the chain.
    >
    > Scrounging is good,
    > --

    My first track bike cost me a grand total of $40 to put together. Talk about a frankenbike!

    Mike

    > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  9. Ant

    Ant Guest

    A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > One risks ruining the temper of the right side main bearing cup. Otherwise flush with solvent and
    > braze - it's quick. Remove _all_ the plastic bits first!
    >
    > I have _not_ done that job - only the brazing part for someone else who thought Suzue hubs
    > overpriced. That's not my opinion!

    I venture to guess it was the wheelbuild parts and labor that scared 'em, not the suzue on her own.

    if i used a silver solder, would that temp be high enough to ruin a bearing cup? or are the
    clearances inside the FH that need to be brazed together too loose for silver to bridge?

    sorry to drag this on, anthony
     
  10. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    [email protected] (ant) writes:

    > A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    >> One risks ruining the temper of the right side main bearing cup. Otherwise flush with solvent and
    >> braze - it's quick. Remove _all_ the plastic bits first!
    >
    > if i used a silver solder, would that temp be high enough to ruin a bearing cup? or are the
    > clearances inside the FH that need to be brazed together too loose for silver to bridge?

    Oh, why oh why ruin a perfectly good cassette and risk ruining the hub too?????? Just fork out for
    the right tool for the job:

    http://www.surlybikes.com/hotmetal/parts_Fixxer.html
     
  11. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    >A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>One risks ruining the temper of the right side main bearing cup. Otherwise flush with solvent and
    >>braze - it's quick. Remove _all_ the plastic bits first! I have _not_ done that job - only the
    >>brazing part for someone else who thought Suzue hubs overpriced. That's not my opinion!

    ant wrote:
    > I venture to guess it was the wheelbuild parts and labor that scared 'em, not the suzue on her
    > own. if i used a silver solder, would that temp be high enough to ruin a bearing cup? or are the
    > clearances inside the FH that need to be brazed together too loose for silver to bridge?

    I don't know what temperature your silver is.

    I suppose it might be possible to unscrew the casette bearing locknut (which is the main bearing
    race), braze the two parts of the casette body together and then screw that race back down. You'd
    need to avoid braze material in the threads. Seems like a lot of diddling around, though.

    At the very worst you could do up a couple at a time ( cassette bodies are free in scrap wheels) and
    change them if a problem shows up later.

    Or just gat a Suzue fixed gear hub.

    Or make a different fixed gear arangement. We discussed cutting splines for a coaster/three speed
    cog into a steel hub last week.

    OK I gave up and opened my Machinery's Handbook. Tempering of carbon steels can begin in the
    500F range, but annealing starts as low as 1335F. From that, many silvers would be fine it
    seems. I am not an expert. Does that mean you can silver it at 1200F and cool slowly and still
    retain the temper?

    The other side of that seems to imply one might braze it and then quench , assuming it is a high
    carbon steel, using a color chart.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  12. Dianne_1234

    Dianne_1234 Guest

    On 1 Dec 2003 17:02:09 -0800, [email protected] (ant) wrote:

    >A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    >> One risks ruining the temper of the right side main bearing cup. Otherwise flush with solvent and
    >> braze - it's quick. Remove _all_ the plastic bits first!
    >>
    >> I have _not_ done that job - only the brazing part for someone else who thought Suzue hubs
    >> overpriced. That's not my opinion!
    >
    >if i used a silver solder, would that temp be high enough to ruin a bearing cup? or are the
    >clearances inside the FH that need to be brazed together too loose for silver to bridge?
    >
    >sorry to drag this on, anthony

    I wonder if filling the FH body with epoxy would work?

    I imagine taking off the bearing race would save it from overheating, but then I'd worry about
    possible misalignment during brazing.
     
  13. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (ant) writes:
    >
    > > A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > >> One risks ruining the temper of the right side main bearing cup. Otherwise flush with solvent
    > >> and braze - it's quick. Remove _all_ the plastic bits first!
    > >
    > > if i used a silver solder, would that temp be high enough to ruin a bearing cup? or are the
    > > clearances inside the FH that need to be brazed together too loose for silver to bridge?
    >
    > Oh, why oh why ruin a perfectly good cassette and risk ruining the hub too?????? Just fork out for
    > the right tool for the job:
    >
    > http://www.surlybikes.com/hotmetal/parts_Fixxer.html

    Because it's like $80.
     
  14. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> writes:

    > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> Oh, why oh why ruin a perfectly good cassette and risk ruining the hub too?????? Just fork out
    >> for the right tool for the job:
    >>
    >> http://www.surlybikes.com/hotmetal/parts_Fixxer.html
    >
    > Because it's like $80.

    Versus how much to replace a f****d up Dura Ace hub if you ruin it while brazing the cassette body
    solid? Sheesh. Somebody's selling a Fixxer over in r.b.marketplace for $55. Snag that one, then.
    Note that the Fixxer also comes with a new axle for proper track nuts.
     
  15. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I suppose it might be possible to unscrew the casette bearing locknut (which is the main bearing
    > race), braze the two parts of the casette body together and then screw that race back down. You'd
    > need to avoid braze material in the threads. Seems like a lot of diddling around, though.
    >
    > At the very worst you could do up a couple at a time ( cassette bodies are free in scrap wheels)
    > and change them if a problem shows up later.
    >
    > Or just gat a Suzue fixed gear hub.

    The beauty of "fixing" a freehub is that then you can: use cheap BMX sprockets, adjust the chainline
    with spacers on the FH, use any of your rear wheels on your FG just by swapping FH, use standard
    axles/cones/spacing, etc. A good way of fixing a freehub would be terrific, I have heard of the
    brazing method, but that seems a bit tricky.
     
  16. "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > But you _can_ remove the body, braze the thing together so the body no longer ratchets, and
    > reinstall your cassette body on the hub.

    If the hub in question is a Dura Ace 7700 series model, the freehub body is titanium. I don't know
    much about brazing, and even less about brazing titanium, but if I were looking to braze a freehub
    body solid, I'd pick up a cheap steel one.

    Marten Gerritsen gives brief welding instructions here: http://www.m-gineering.nl/trackg.htm

    The fixed-gear mailing list archive at: http://lists.davintech.ca/mailman/listinfo/fixed-gear
    contains various suggestions, including brazing, welding, epoxy, and all of the above in combination
    with screwing the inner to the outer. You'll need to join the list to search the archive.

    I haven't tried any of the above.

    James Thomson
     
  17. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Guest

    dianne_1234 wrote:
    > I wonder if filling the FH body with epoxy would work?

    now /that/ is an excellent suggestion!
     
  18. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    -snip lock up a freehub body- dianne_1234 wrote:
    > I wonder if filling the FH body with epoxy would work?
    >
    > I imagine taking off the bearing race would save it from overheating, but then I'd worry about
    > possible misalignment during brazing.

    I left the race in situ. Just flushed out all the oil. I used a big cool oxy-propane flame in
    firebrick. No warping, no shifting. It was simple to do and straight at the end.
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  19. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > dianne_1234 wrote:
    > > I wonder if filling the FH body with epoxy would work?
    >
    > now /that/ is an excellent suggestion!

    Maybe some have had success with this, but I did some quick calculations and it seemed that epoxy
    doesn't have the strength. Of course, you only have to immobilize against backpedal loads, since the
    pawls would remain functional. I have a degreased freehub body sitting on the bench right now with a
    new package of JB Weld, but I didn't think it was worth trying. Perhaps I'll peruse the mentioned
    archives...
     
  20. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >> Oh, why oh why ruin a perfectly good cassette and risk ruining the hub too?????? Just fork out
    > >> for the right tool for the job:
    > >>
    > >> http://www.surlybikes.com/hotmetal/parts_Fixxer.html
    > >
    > > Because it's like $80.
    >
    > Versus how much to replace a f****d up Dura Ace hub if you ruin it while brazing the cassette body
    > solid? Sheesh. Somebody's selling a Fixxer over in r.b.marketplace for $55. Snag that one, then.
    > Note that the Fixxer also comes with a new axle for proper track nuts.

    Freehub bodies are pretty cheap and work with all Shimano hubs, no need to risk a hub, just use a
    fhb off any old hub.

    I much prefer QR, if the axle doesn't slip on my road bike with triple front & horiz. dropouts, I'm
    not worried about needing track nuts. In any case, you can get track nuts if you want them.
     
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