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Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Dave H, Jun 17, 2004.



  1. "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05
    >
    > Dave
    >
    >


    Too bad they didn't exhibit the model with the funky fork. In a single tube
    in line with the tire, the fork followed the trailing edge of the front
    wheel down from the headset to the level of the wheel axle. The fork blades
    then went horizontally forward to attach the front wheel.

    Quite ingenious way to minimize frontal area of the fork.
     
  2. Dave H

    Dave H Guest

  3. Sonarrat

    Sonarrat Guest

    Dave H wrote:

    > "Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Dave H wrote:
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05
    >
    >>More like an icon of poor taste.

    >
    >
    > I suppose you are into the "double triangle" round tube method of making
    > bikes?


    Yes, I think a good modern road bike is a beautiful thing. But it's not
    the Espada's shape that offends my eye as much as the paint job, and
    particularly the "Miguel Indurain" typeset which totally belies
    Indurain's mellowness and modesty. I can't help thinking of the
    excessive "sport stripes" and huge badges that came on cars from the
    late '80s and early '90s.
     
  4. Mike Gladu

    Mike Gladu Guest

    How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
    background of:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

    BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
    http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg (not Colinelli's
    'mixte' - http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Boardman/WITT69.jpg) is
    still one of my favorites.

    Mike G.
    -

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mike Gladu, Cycling Photojournalist, Infinite HangTime Photography
    Honda '82 CB900F, '84 XR200R, '70/'71/'80/'81/'82/'83 C70 Passport
    Honda '86 VT500C, '97 Dream 50, Husqvarna '84 510TE, BMW '74 R60/5
    Passport/C70 info: http://www.velodrome.com/HondaC70/HondaC70.html
    ==================================================================
     
  5. Dave H

    Dave H Guest

    "Mike Gladu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
    > background of:
    >
    >

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01
    >
    > BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
    > http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg (not Colinelli's
    > 'mixte' - http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Boardman/WITT69.jpg) is
    > still one of my favorites.
    >
    > Mike G.



    Maybe and I am not TOTALLY sure, but I think those "funny bikes" were all
    built by Moser himself, I know his hour record bike was. Maybe the display
    in the background if of Moser when he actually roide Pinarellos?
    http://www.damonrinard.com/photos/moser84.jpg

    Dave
     
  6. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Mike Gladu) wrote:

    > How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
    > background of:
    >
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
    > Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01
    >
    > BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
    > http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg


    Hey, their feet are all out of synch - no wonder they only got a fourth
    out of it (heh). You've gotta give Pinerello credit for trying some
    innovative designs to improve aerodynamics, even though the designs aren't
    always the most pleasing aesthetically.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "Copper will never be gold"
    Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  7. "Mike Gladu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
    > background of:
    >
    >

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

    IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29". Moser is a pretty
    tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the frame and the seat
    isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is a
    26". You can see in the picture that the rear is considerably larger.
    Possibly 39".


    I tried to Google for an image if the Pinarello Epee with the wild fork, but
    only came up with a cyclingnews.com text reference.
     
  8. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Mike Gladu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
    > > background of:
    > >
    > >

    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
    > Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01
    >
    > IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29". Moser is a pretty
    > tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the frame and the seat
    > isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is a
    > 26". You can see in the picture that the rear is considerably larger.
    > Possibly 39".


    Did he actually set the record on that bike? Every picture I've seen of
    him that is described as being of the record run shows a bike with a
    smaller back wheel. I have seen a picture of him on a bike that I remember
    looks a lot like the one you're describing (the one in the background of
    the picture). On this chart, it lists the equipment used as being "Ambrosio
    discs, 66/71cm", which is 26" and about 28".
    <http://www.bikecult.com/bikecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html>

    Interesting to note the crank lengths used: Moser, Merckx and Obree on
    175s, Boardman on 170s, Rominger on 172.5s and Indurain on 190s!

    Here's some shots from the (or one of the) record run:
    <http://ida.physik.uni-siegen.de/menn/moser.htm>

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "Copper will never be gold"
    Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  9. "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29". Moser is a

    pretty
    > > tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the frame and the

    seat
    > > isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is

    a
    > > 26". You can see in the picture that the rear is considerably larger.
    > > Possibly 39".

    >
    > Did he actually set the record on that bike? Every picture I've seen of
    > him that is described as being of the record run shows a bike with a
    > smaller back wheel. I have seen a picture of him on a bike that I remember
    > looks a lot like the one you're describing (the one in the background of
    > the picture). On this chart, it lists the equipment used as being

    "Ambrosio
    > discs, 66/71cm", which is 26" and about 28".
    > <http://www.bikecult.com/bikecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html>
    >
    > Interesting to note the crank lengths used: Moser, Merckx and Obree on
    > 175s, Boardman on 170s, Rominger on 172.5s and Indurain on 190s!
    >
    > Here's some shots from the (or one of the) record run:
    > <http://ida.physik.uni-siegen.de/menn/moser.htm>
    >


    About the same time the UCI decided to do away with the pro/amateur
    classification, they also did away with numerous aspects of UCI recognized
    world records. There were indoor, outdoor, high altitude and low altitude
    records for each distance. There were even standing and flying start records
    for many distances, too. We're talking 200M, 500M, 1000M, 4000M, 5000M,
    10.000M, 20.000M and the hour. Then double all those records for the
    pro/amateur categories. (Substitute 2000M for junior women and 3000M for
    women and junior men for the 4000M & 5000M records for men). Quantitatively,
    it was almost as bad as US national champion jerseys.

    Unfortunately for the record keepers, about the time the UCI consolidated or
    eliminated the recognition of many records, along came Masters and their age
    groups to fill up the record books again.

    Moser's Big Wheel bike was built for the indoor record. He rode it in
    Stuttgart (1988, I believe), but I don't recall how he fared.

    The pictures on the website are from his original record(s) in Mexico City,
    January 1984.
     
  10. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > About the same time the UCI decided to do away with the pro/amateur
    > classification, they also did away with numerous aspects of UCI recognized
    > world records. There were indoor, outdoor, high altitude and low altitude
    > records for each distance. There were even standing and flying start records
    > for many distances, too. We're talking 200M, 500M, 1000M, 4000M, 5000M,
    > 10.000M, 20.000M and the hour. Then double all those records for the
    > pro/amateur categories. (Substitute 2000M for junior women and 3000M for
    > women and junior men for the 4000M & 5000M records for men). Quantitatively,
    > it was almost as bad as US national champion jerseys.
    >
    > Unfortunately for the record keepers, about the time the UCI consolidated or
    > eliminated the recognition of many records, along came Masters and their age
    > groups to fill up the record books again.
    >
    > Moser's Big Wheel bike was built for the indoor record. He rode it in
    > Stuttgart (1988, I believe), but I don't recall how he fared.
    >
    > The pictures on the website are from his original record(s) in Mexico City,
    > January 1984.


    You're right, I had forgotten about the other records that those guys
    tried for. I'd assumed it was for his original Mexico City Hour record
    rides.

    One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were obviously
    custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made. Can't have been
    cheap...

    Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
    thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from the
    Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
    jersey sales.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "Copper will never be gold"
    Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  11. Dave H

    Dave H Guest

    "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:YOURhoward->
    > Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
    > thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from

    the
    > Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
    > jersey sales.


    If you are talking about anyone buying a Masters World Championship Jersey,
    that is something that Voler has never released to the general public,
    unlike the makers of the Elite Rainbow jersey.

    Dave
     
  12. "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were obviously
    > custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made. Can't have

    been
    > cheap...
    >


    Back in the 70's, there were probably well in excess of 25 different
    manufacturers of tubulars worldwide, some large like Clement, some very
    small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
    manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not that
    uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that followed
    the sixes (back in the days when real racers used shellac as the adhesive)
    and replaced the tread on the old casing on tires as they wore down.

    As long as the manufacturer had a drum the appropriate size, building a tire
    to a given diameter was no big deal.
     
  13. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were obviously
    > custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made. Can't have

    been
    > cheap...


    Handmade sewups were common back then and I don't think it would be much
    trouble to create some one-off sizes or a small run of oddball sizes for the
    top pros and record attempts. It is not as if they use molds or anything
    that locks them in to a particular size.


    > Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
    > thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from

    the
    > Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
    > jersey sales.
    >
    > --
    > tanx,
    > Howard
    >
    > "Copper will never be gold"
    > Shellac
    >
    > remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  14. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:YOURhoward->
    > > Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
    > > thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from

    > the
    > > Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
    > > jersey sales.

    >
    > If you are talking about anyone buying a Masters World Championship Jersey,
    > that is something that Voler has never released to the general public,
    > unlike the makers of the Elite Rainbow jersey.
    >
    > Dave


    No, it was just a little crack at the number of Master's categories.
    Since there's a lot of categories, there's going to be a lot of jerseys to
    be given to the winners, and the UCI has to buy those jerseys. I rode by
    three "Elite World Champions" yesterday (heh).

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "Copper will never be gold"
    Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  15. Carl Sundquist wrote:


    > small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
    > manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not that
    > uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that followed


    Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand rather than in
    Italy. But this is progress.
     
  16. Dave H

    Dave H Guest

    "Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >
    >
    > > small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
    > > manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not

    that
    > > uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that

    followed
    >
    > Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand rather than in
    > Italy. But this is progress.


    Silk's better in Thailand
    Dave
     
  17. "Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >
    >
    > > small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
    > > manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not

    that
    > > uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that

    followed
    >
    > Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand rather than in
    > Italy.


    I strongly suspect that the same factory in Thailand is producing tubulars
    for Vittoria, Clement, and numerous 'house' brands, such as Oschner.
     
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