Flashing LEDs to be made legal

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Helen C Simmons, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. Apparently.

    See

    http://www.bikebiz.com/daily-news/article.php?id=5221

    "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    static light.
    The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.

    The law will be changed later this year."

    Cheers, helen s


    --
    --
    www.ccbreckland.org.uk
    --
     
    Tags:


  2. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Helen C Simmons quoted:
    > "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    > of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    > use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    > bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    > static light.
    > The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    > displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.


    I thought the proposed change was to allow the use of flashing lights
    used alongside steady lights, which /isn't/ currently legal whatever the
    minister might think.

    I'd object quite strongly to any proposal to legalise the use of
    flashing lights on their own.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
     
  3. Jon Rogers

    Jon Rogers Guest

    On 2005-02-05, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Helen C Simmons quoted:
    >> "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    >> of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    >> use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    >> bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    >> static light.
    >> The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    >> displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.

    >
    > I thought the proposed change was to allow the use of flashing lights
    > used alongside steady lights, which /isn't/ currently legal whatever the
    > minister might think.
    >
    > I'd object quite strongly to any proposal to legalise the use of
    > flashing lights on their own.
    >


    Why? They seem to me to be much more visible than steady lights, either
    LED or filament lamp types.

    I suspect the minister has missed the boat anyway, if the local bike
    police around here are anything to go by.

    --
    Jon
    ____________________________________________
    jondotrogersatntlworlddotcom
    ============================================
     
  4. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Jon Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 2005-02-05, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > I'd object quite strongly to any proposal to legalise the use of
    > > flashing lights on their own.
    > >

    >
    > Why? They seem to me to be much more visible than steady lights, either
    > LED or filament lamp types.


    There you go then, a subjective matter. As a driver I prefer to see a steady
    light to which a flashing one may be added. A bright red steady light cues
    me that it is the back of a road going vehicle with little ambiguity. And
    the WTF factor of a flashing light isn't neccessarily going to work as the
    information required by a driver approaching from the rear is speed and
    position, flashing lights are less effective at conveying this IMO, YMMV.
    Don't equate a poxy little red flashing light with the blue, amber or green
    beacons fitted to other types of vehicle to draw attention, they're not in
    the same league and even vehicles fitted with those usually have multiple
    installations.

    The problem with bicycle lighting is education, f'rinstace I passed a chap
    riding with a flashing rear light partially obscured by a mtb type clip-on
    mudguard, which fortunately was semi transparent, and a mega poxy front
    flashing LED lamp that he'd have been better off ditching to make space for
    an ash tray on the bars which would have been more useful. He was otherwise
    a dark object.
    The point is because those lights are sold in respectable outlets he
    probably thought he'd taken reasonable measures to be seen in the dark
    and/or comply with regs.
    wheras IMO he'd have been better off swapping the poxy lights for a high
    vis jacket.

    Pete
     
  5. marc

    marc Guest

    On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:03:44 +0000, Danny Colyer wrote:

    >> "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    >> of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    >> use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    >> bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    >> static light.
    >> The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    >> displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.

    >
    > I thought the proposed change was to allow the use of flashing lights
    > used alongside steady lights, which /isn't/ currently legal whatever the
    > minister might think.


    I saw three police horses festooned with Flashing Leds as part of their
    tack on Wednesday night, they were using these as well as a red/white light
    strapped to the riders leg.
     
  6. "Peter B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > The problem with bicycle lighting is education, f'rinstace I passed a chap
    > riding with a flashing rear light partially obscured by a mtb type clip-on
    > mudguard, which fortunately was semi transparent, and a mega poxy front
    > flashing LED lamp that he'd have been better off ditching to make space
    > for
    > an ash tray on the bars which would have been more useful. He was
    > otherwise
    > a dark object.
    > The point is because those lights are sold in respectable outlets he
    > probably thought he'd taken reasonable measures to be seen in the dark
    > and/or comply with regs.
    > wheras IMO he'd have been better off swapping the poxy lights for a high
    > vis jacket.
    >
    > Pete
    >
    >

    The point with any form of lighting is education. On my current night rides
    into Dereham, I've been meeting up with a lady who cycles to same meeting.
    She has a very dim single front light (normal bulb) and a traditional "Every
    Ready" type rear red light. Problem is, apart from the batteries being
    incredibly low so little light comes out of either front or back light - the
    way she has her back light positioned, it points almost vertically to the
    sky. Of course, she could be communicating with aliens, but I don't think
    that's the intention ;-) She also has a nice bright yellow jacket she wears,
    but obscures it by wearing a large black backpack. Totally different
    attitude to personal visibility to the one I have, where I have
    multitudinous lights front & back & am swathed in acres of reflectives.

    Cheers, helen s
     
  7. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Helen C Simmons" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >- the
    > way she has her back light positioned, it points almost vertically to the
    > sky. Of course, she could be communicating with aliens, but I don't think
    > that's the intention ;-)


    Possibly so that it's correctly aligned when she pops wheelies.

    Pete
     
  8. JLB

    JLB Guest

    Helen C Simmons wrote:
    > "Peter B" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    [snip tales of people misusing lights or hi-vis clothing]

    It seems to me that many of these people do not regard the equipment
    they are carrying as functional kit which has physical properties (such
    as emitting a certain amount of visible-spectrum electromagnetic
    radiation) that they can exploit for their benefit if they use it
    properly. Rather, they relate to the equipment as talismanic objects of
    inherent virtue that confer good fortune on the bearer merely by being
    carried.

    --
    Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap
     
  9. "marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:03:44 +0000, Danny Colyer wrote:
    >
    >>> "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee
    >>> stage
    >>> of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding
    >>> the
    >>> use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    >>> bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction
    >>> with a
    >>> static light.
    >>> The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean
    >>> that
    >>> displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.

    >>
    >> I thought the proposed change was to allow the use of flashing lights
    >> used alongside steady lights, which /isn't/ currently legal whatever the
    >> minister might think.

    >
    > I saw three police horses festooned with Flashing Leds as part of their
    > tack on Wednesday night, they were using these as well as a red/white
    > light
    > strapped to the riders leg.


    My understanding is that horses require the same lighting as a bicyle (ie.
    white forward facing + red rearward facing lamps). The flashing LEDs are
    something to do with horse training (I'm sure somebody more knowledgable
    will now), as I have seen quite a few horses fitted with these during
    daylight.
     
  10. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Peter B
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    >
    > "Jon Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> On 2005-02-05, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > I'd object quite strongly to any proposal to legalise the use of
    >> > flashing lights on their own.

    >>
    >> Why? They seem to me to be much more visible than steady lights,
    >> either LED or filament lamp types.

    >
    > There you go then, a subjective matter. As a driver I prefer to see a
    > steady light to which a flashing one may be added.


    And as a driver I find flashing lights on bicycles greatly preferable to
    steady ones. They're not only highly visible at a distance, they're
    highly diagnostic at a distance. For example, I was recently following
    two red lights down a narrow road. Was it a car, or a tractor, or what?
    No, it was immediately obvious at over half a mile away that it was two
    bicycles side by side, because one of the lights was flashing.

    Me? I'd _ban_ steady back lights.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
    ;; knowledge increaseth sorrow.." - Ecclesiastes 1:18
     
  11. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "JLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > It seems to me that many of these people do not regard the equipment
    > they are carrying as functional kit which has physical properties (such
    > as emitting a certain amount of visible-spectrum electromagnetic
    > radiation) that they can exploit for their benefit if they use it
    > properly. Rather, they relate to the equipment as talismanic objects of
    > inherent virtue that confer good fortune on the bearer merely by being
    > carried.


    No -- not another h*lm*t debate -- please.
     
  12. Simon Proven

    Simon Proven Guest

    Helen C Simmons wrote:
    > Apparently.
    >
    > See
    >
    > http://www.bikebiz.com/daily-news/article.php?id=5221
    >
    > "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    > of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    > use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    > bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    > static light.
    > The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    > displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.
    >
    > The law will be changed later this year."


    No, No, No!

    The stated current position is that flashing LEDs specifically
    illegal, rather than being permitted in addition to a static
    light. I very much hope the law is not going to be that flashing
    lights alone are legal. Particularly in the case of front lights,
    which are often seen in a mirror. I find it virtually impossible
    to pick out some flashing lights because there is no apparent
    connection between the brief periods of illumination.
     
  13. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On 5 Feb 2005 00:12:11 GMT someone who may be Jon Rogers
    <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >> I'd object quite strongly to any proposal to legalise the use of
    >> flashing lights on their own.

    >
    >Why? They seem to me to be much more visible than steady lights, either
    >LED or filament lamp types.


    Being "visible" is easy, but not what is necessary. People crash
    into bright red fire engines, bright yellow buses and vans on clear
    summer days. They also go past bright red flashing lights on level
    crossings.



    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  14. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:56:45 -0000 someone who may be "Moray Cuthill"
    <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >My understanding is that horses require the same lighting as a bicyle (ie.
    >white forward facing + red rearward facing lamps).


    I doubt it. Where would one mount the white front lamp? Horse heads
    go up an down quite a lot, especially when going up hills. As for
    the red rear lamp, I leave the problems with that as an exercise for
    the reader.


    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  15. "David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >
    > I doubt it. Where would one mount the white front lamp? Horse heads
    > go up an down quite a lot, especially when going up hills. As for
    > the red rear lamp, I leave the problems with that as an exercise for
    > the reader.
    >
    >

    I'm sure one could rig up a natty little tiara like contraption to sit on
    the top of the horse's head :)

    Cheers, helen s
     
  16. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >> Me? I'd _ban_ steady back lights.


    Like I said when I came in, it's subjective.

    But Helen is right, a set of badly designed, fitted and utilised BSI
    approved steady filament lamps are not a lot of use either.

    Pete
     
  17. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    On 5/2/05 12:12 am, in article [email protected]cart, "Jon
    Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On 2005-02-05, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Helen C Simmons quoted:
    >>> "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    >>> of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    >>> use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    >>> bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    >>> static light.
    >>> The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    >>> displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.

    >>
    >> I thought the proposed change was to allow the use of flashing lights
    >> used alongside steady lights, which /isn't/ currently legal whatever the
    >> minister might think.
    >>
    >> I'd object quite strongly to any proposal to legalise the use of
    >> flashing lights on their own.
    >>

    >
    > Why? They seem to me to be much more visible than steady lights, either
    > LED or filament lamp types.
    >


    You'd actually be wrong. They are much harder to place spatially. Yes you
    know there is something there, but cannot tell exactly where it is.

    I don't use lights in flashing mode (except the tireflys) for precisely this
    reason. I'd much rather a driver could tell how far away I wasn't instead of
    leaving there foot on the accellerator till they realise how close I really
    am.

    ...d
     
  18. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Helen C Simmons wrote:
    > Apparently.
    >
    > See
    >
    > http://www.bikebiz.com/daily-news/article.php?id=5221
    >
    > "David Jamieson, the road safety minister announced in the committee stage
    > of the Road Safety Bill that there will be a change in the law regarding the
    > use of LED flashing lights on bicycles. Currently these lights - while
    > bright and mega conspicuous - are only legal when used in conjunction with a
    > static light.
    > The tidying up of the law concerning LEDs is long overdue but will mean that
    > displaying a flashing LED light by itself will be made legal.
    >
    > The law will be changed later this year."
    >
    > Cheers, helen s
    >
    >


    Surely the change should simply be to make BS6102 lights legal (LED or
    other)
     
  19. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:
    > And as a driver I find flashing lights on bicycles greatly preferable to
    > steady ones. They're not only highly visible at a distance, they're
    > highly diagnostic at a distance.


    I've responded to you making that comment before. I find it very much
    easier to track the movement of a steady light. If I know that there's
    a cyclist ahead of me then I like to know where he is, so that I can
    make sure I don't hit him. That's easier if he doesn't keep
    disappearing and then reappearing somewhere else. As Peter B wrote,
    it's a subjective matter.

    I don't particularly object to the use of flashing lights [1], but I
    *do* object to the lack of a steady light.

    > For example, I was recently following
    > two red lights down a narrow road. Was it a car, or a tractor, or what?
    > No, it was immediately obvious at over half a mile away that it was two
    > bicycles side by side, because one of the lights was flashing.


    The proposed changes included allowing breakdown vehicles to display red
    flashing lights, which would make them rather less diagnostic of a
    cyclist. Anyone know if that change is still included?

    > Me? I'd _ban_ steady back lights.


    That would mean I'd have to break the law. There's no way I'd take to
    the road after dark without at least one steady back light. I know how
    much I hate having to follow a bike without one, so I wouldn't subject
    anyone else to having to follow a bike without one.


    [1] Well, that's not entirely true. I hate sitting behind someone with
    a bright-enough-to-be-worthwhile flashing light when I'm on an unlit
    road or cyclepath. Gives me a headache.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
     
  20. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Moray Cuthill wrote:
    > My understanding is that horses require the same lighting as a bicyle (ie.
    > white forward facing + red rearward facing lamps).


    I used to think that, having been told by a friend who ran a riding
    school and who occasionally took a few friends out on Ashdown Forest
    that we had to be back before dark. I can remember only just making it
    on one Boxing Day ride.

    I almost posted the same point a couple of weeks ago, but decided to
    check the HC first. If horses were required to be lit then it seems a
    safe bet that the HC would say so. Instead, rule 36 simply /advises/
    the use of lights:

    "At night. It is safer not to ride on the road at night or in poor
    visibility, but if you do, make sure your horse has reflective bands
    above the fetlock joints. Carry a light which shows white to the front
    and red to the rear."

    My guess is that my friend's need to get his horses off the road before
    dark was probably to do with his insurance policy, rather than the law.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
     
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