"Flat Bar" Road Bikes: What's The Point?

[Scott Goldsmith]

"Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Russell" wrote:
>
> > OK, I've got a question/comment. Maybe I'm just too opinionated, but what is the point of these
> > flat bar road bikes, a.k.a fitness bikes? I guess they are for people that want a fast street
> > bike, but are "afraid" of the drop style bars?

Try to get the bars level with the seat on some bikes, short quilled stems or threadless forks with
the steerer tube cut too short, either way it can be difficult. So you get compact frame bikes with
flat bars as "fitness bikes". Look at a Trek catalog, the touring bike has the bars 4+ inches below
the seat, no wonder people "know" drops are uncomfortable, now look at the fitness bikes, bars near
seat level.

Take a Lemond road bike, put a short reach Technomic deluxe stem on it, with the bars at seat level.
Then send the customer out on ride with a fast down hill. Then try the same on a fitness bike. Which
bike feels more secure ? You could get a broader range of fit on a PX-10 than a 5900, and fit larger
tires for city riding or Paris Roubaix, ain't progress great ?

Scott Goldsmith Slower than Jan on a PX-10 or a 5900 Superlight.

 

[Jonathan V.D. S]

"Russell" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I've got a question/comment. Maybe I'm just too opinionated, but what is the point of these
> flat bar road bikes, a.k.a fitness bikes? I guess they are for people that want a fast street
> bike, but are "afraid" of the drop style bars?
>
> I have run across some folks that have pretty much been sold on the concept of a flat bar road
> bike, and won't even test ride an "old fashioned" drop bar road bike. I can't seem to convince
> them that riding a traditional road bike on the top of the drops really won't be that much
> different than the positioning of a flat bar, PLUS you have the options of the other
> three/four/five other ways you can hold them. Drop bars just seem so superior in my mind. Am I
> missing something, or are people as crazy as I think they are?

My girlfriend used an old (1980s) Raleigh 'Zoetemelk-replica' for our holidays a couple of times.
That convinced her never to use drop bars anymore. Here's why: when descending, she doesn't want to
ride too low, because it gives her the feeling she's not in control. But the brakes forced her to
have her hands in the drops, because she could not brake effectively from the hoods, or whatever the
older metal equivalent is called. So there was no choice but to stay in a more aerodynamic position.
That would answer one of your question: she was indeed afraid (after trying it out) and did not want
it anymore.

I can think of more reasons:

Cost: STI levers are expensive, moreso than Deore shifters/brake levers. At Rose Versand in Germany,
Tiagra STI levers cost E 165,- and the Deore equivalent E 47,-. I also think that straight
handlebars are slightly cheaper

Comfort: With a racing handlebar, you always need to reach forward to use the brakes. Some people
don't want to strain their backs. With a straight handlebar, you can use the breaks in the most
comfortable position. Another factor that has to do with comfort is that some people don't like tape
and want firm grips, preferably shaped in some way to easily rest the hands.

No reason for drop bars: Generally, people who don't use drop bars, do not want to buy a bike that
has them. This actually makes sense, I think. Why put the brakes so far away, on a piece of metal
that you otherwise would not use? Not everyone wants to ride fast, some people just like to exercise
a bit (perhaps that's where the term 'fitness bike' comes from).

Control: People who are unaccustomed to drop bars might feel less control over a bike with such a
handlebar. Fair enough: why should they become accustomed to another type of bike?

Also, as far as I know, STI and Ergo levers cannot be used with V-brakes, without some modification.
There are special brake levers for racing handlebars that are compatible with V-brakes, but I have
not seen a bike that was fitted with these. A flat handlebar (and Deore brakes) are a cheap solution
if you want V-brakes.

A handlebar with drops is not the only possibility if you want variety in the position of your arms.
There's the multiposition handlebar, in a lot of variations. On the other hand, if someone wants a
more upright position but also drop bars, the Gran Fondo from the Italian company Modolo has raised
parts next to the middle, which should make the riding position more relaxed. And for braking, you
could install the 'frog-legs' that some cyclocrossers use. But that's extra expense, and the fitness
bike does not make such adjustments necessary.

Jonathan.

 

[Jon Isaacs]

>>It's 100% fashion and marketing. The bicycle industry needs a new type of bike every few years.
>
>That's kinda what I was thinking.

I ride with a fellow who has such a bike. Not really super skinny tires but 700C wheels and a
layed position.

Not my choice but it has its advantages. This is a sturdy bike, more adaptable to fast riding than a
hybrid, sturdier than a road bike.

The position of the brakes makes transferring weight rearward so braking can be more efficient.

People have been making flat bar road bikes out of dropbar road bikes for many years. In the past
there have always been problems with matching components, brakes, shifters etc. Add the need for
possibly different frame geometries and these bikes have been less than optimal.

Many riders spend most of their time on the flat part of a set of drop bars, some probably all of
it. For such riders, flat bars make sense.

I like drop bars but figure there is nothing wrong with a bit of variety.

jon isaacs

 

[Bluto]

[email protected] (Russell) wrote:

> OK, I've got a question/comment. Maybe I'm just too opinionated, but what is the point of these
> flat bar road bikes, a.k.a fitness bikes? I guess they are for people that want a fast street
> bike, but are "afraid" of the drop style bars?

For my part, I have tried lots of different drop bars and never made peace with one long-term. I got
rid of my last drop bar a couple of years ago, and I just retired the next-closest thing I had in
the stable, an upside-down North Road bar. My issues with drop bars are several:

Braking plain sucks with drop bar levers. There are not nearly enough cable-pull variations to match
available brakes; there is almost no variation in drop bar lever sizes; both braking positions are
awkward and the comfortable one is weak.

Shifting is goofy with drop bars. The only places to mount regular shifters (bar ends or tops) are
not where your hands are likely to be at any given moment. Brifters are a backasswards $200 answer
to a $10 question that top-mount thumbshifters address nicely.

Drop bars give half-a-dozen different hand positions, each one inferior to the default position
afforded by flat bars. The tops, top bends, and hoods are all acceptable hand positions, but not
as good as a flat bar's. None of the other positions are even close to as satisfactory as that of
a flat bar.

Drop bars are flimsy. Nitto's Dirt Drop is the only aluminum drop bar that didn't feel to me like it
was trying to escape. The new generation of half-pound, double-grooved drop bars start doing the
Funky Chicken as soon as I lay a hand on them.

Drop bars don't come in a good variety of sizes. With the exception of a few outliers like the
aforementioned Nitto Dirt Drop and WTB bars, drop bars range from 40 to 46 cm widths in an
assortment of nearly-identical bends.

Drop bars come in silly diameters that make them incompatible with the wealth of fittings common to
all flat bars, even on motorcycles.

Judged by these criteria, flat bars have some distinct virtues.

Flat bars range up to 30" wide or so, in rises from zero to 24" and sweeps from straight out to
straight back. They can be had in aluminum or steel, braced or unbraced, in either of the two most
common clamp and grip diameters in the world: 22.2mm and 25.4mm. Brake levers for flat bars come in
every conceivable blade length and leverage ratio (or master cylinder diameter). They accept
twist-grip shifters; twist-grip throttles; lights, mirrors, and accessories of every sort; and the
simplest, easiest, best no-fooling-around shift levers ever-- top-mounted thumbshifters.

> riding a traditional road bike on the top of the drops really won't be that much different than
> the positioning of a flat bar,

--minus 6" or more of grip width. It makes a huge difference. Imagine 6" less between the hoods of
your bars and you'll know what I mean. The bike I have close by to measure spans 25" (63cm) between
the outer ends of the handgrips, though a really narrow flat bar might span 21" (53cm). The widest
grooved drop bar is about 35 to 40cm wide where it begins to curve forward. There's no way to cover
the brakes or shift from that hand position either. You say this is not much different?

> Am I missing something, or are people as crazy as I think they are?

Yes, and probably.

But consider that nothing like a drop bar exists in any form of motorcycling, where aerodynamics
and rider endurance are at least as important as in bicycling. Whether breaking 200mph on the
track or riding 11,000 miles in 9 days, motorbikers use flat bars only. Are they all a bunch of
ignorant ninnies?

Chalo Colina

 

[A Muzi]

"Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I've got a question/comment. Maybe I'm just too opinionated, but what is the point of these
> flat bar road bikes, a.k.a fitness bikes? I guess they are for people that want a fast street
> bike, but are "afraid" of the drop style bars?
>
> I have run across some folks that have pretty much been sold on the concept of a flat bar road
> bike, and won't even test ride an "old fashioned" drop bar road bike. I can't seem to convince
> them that riding a traditional road bike on the top of the drops really won't be that much
> different than the positioning of a flat bar, PLUS you have the options of the other
> three/four/five other ways you can hold them. Drop bars just seem so superior in my mind. Am I
> missing something, or are people as crazy as I think they are?

When reviewing trends, remember most people are just average! This is just a currently trendy bike
format but with some sensible virtues. I like tubular wheels and flat bars in traffic but over about
15~20 miles drop bars are simply more comfortable as you change your wrist position, weight on the
bars, attitude of pelvis to saddle and muscle groups a lot when moving around on drop bars. Vison
and visibility are better with flat bars in traffic IMHO.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[x]

RE/
>I guess they are for people that want a fast street bike, but are "afraid" of the drop style bars?

I always rode drop bars on my road bikes - but never, ever went down on the drops. I always rode
with my hands on the hoods.

Since I've been mountain biking, I've come to prefer the flat bars. Given that I never did go down
in the drops, the flat bars give me more variations in hand/arm position but still let me keep one
finger on the brakes or at least be very close to same.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

 

[Squid-In-Traini]

> > it is much more difficult to brake using drop style bars
>
> That's simply untrue.

But you can brake with stoppie/endo force much easier on flat, and in a shorter distance, too.

Drop bars can stoppie easily but that's b/c your CoG is so much farther forward.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Squid-In-Traini]

> IMO, everyone should be able to get a comfortable fit with a properly sized drop-bar bike...a
> flat-bar road bike (especially one that is not equipped with bar-ends) if anything *is* more a
> marketing-driven fashion statement than a traditional road bike.

Wow. I can't believe that pretty much what you said is that traditional drop bars are the only way
to go. To the contrary, some people are different (GASP!) and like flat bars, and some like drop
bars. It's hardly marketing-driven fashion.

Hmm, limit what's available to the masses because it might be different from what you want/like.
Sounds like you're a communist!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Squid-In-Traini]

> Yes, of course. But if they don't ride it lots, then we in the industry haven't done a very good
> job. Yes, we've sold a bike at low margin, but did the customer become a cyclist, and buy all the
> high margin goodies that go along with the bike?

> >Heaven forbid that you would give them what they want...
>
> As I've said, I *will* give them what they want, but I'd rather give them what they "need."

"I am God. I know what the customer needs and wants. What they think they need means **** because
they are just petty little lemmings."

Just paraphrasing for the rest of the group...
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Ant]

jan lindström <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> The only plus (compared with rediculously low-positioned drop bars) is easier braking.

other folks mentioned easier braking too. ill give you that if youre on the tops (not hoods),
braking with drop bars isnt as easy as flats..

but! cross levers! i cant beleive everybody doesnt have them!

i like the tektro variety. they have clamps that open up. for 25 bucks, and ten minutes, you can
outfit two bikes with drop bars with a front brake from the top of the bars. you can reuse your
housing. you can reuse your cable. you don thave to unwrap the bartape. you can brake powerfully
from the tops, when you are toodling in traffic and a pedestrian jumps out in front of you, and save
your drops and your hoods for the faster days.

im a huge cross lever fan. tektros are also way cheaper than the other ones, IIRC.

anthony

 

[W K]

"Russell Yim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> ideas/products are better than others. I happen to believe that for a road bike, a drop-bar is an
> overall better choice.

That might be true, but my understanding was that they were introduced because some people wanted
lightweight bikes for the road, but up to that point had only been using mountain bikes etc. with
flat bars.

The fact that some people prefer such bikes IS NOT marketing hype, as you can see by the number of
hack bikes that are 80's racers with flat bar conversions.

 

[Paul Allen]

On 15 May 2003 23:02:15 -0700, [email protected] (Russell) wrote:

>OK, I've got a question/comment. Maybe I'm just too opinionated, but what is the point of these
>flat bar road bikes, a.k.a fitness bikes? I guess they are for people that want a fast street bike,
>but are "afraid" of the drop style bars?

My gut would get in the way if I was on the drops.

When it goes away, I'll change the bike to a "proper" road bike. For now the "fitness bike" (for
that is its main use for me) was a better buy.

--
------- o ----- <#\, --- ()/() Belfast Biker Specialized Sirrus + Gilera Runner! N54 33' W05 58'

 

[Amerigo]

"Russell Yim" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> >if you put the hands on the flat part of the drop bar, it takes more time
>
> And if you put you hands on the bar-ends on a flat-bar, it takes more time too...but it's still
> not difficult.
>
boring

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Trekkerussel-<< Yes, of course. But if they don't ride it lots, then we in the industry haven't done
a very good job.

But putting drop bars on these bikes for the retired crowd will not get them to ride more..

<< But isn't the reason why people gravitate towards road bikes is the ease of pedaling, and the
speed, and the longer distances that one can ride?

We build a standard road bike but with a flat bar all the time...for that segment of the population
that is older than you(and me), want an upright postion, with hands around the shifters and brakes.
These retired people(and there are a lot here) ride more than I do, not faster, but they are on
their bikes all the time. The idea of taking that Torelli and insisting they put on drop bars, is
ridiculous. THAT will take them off the bike.

<< Personally, if someone wants to buy an flat-bar road bike I will let them, but not without me
ranting and raving about why they should at least try a traditional drop-bar bike!

Bet yer boss loves you...I think the problem is that the flatbar bikes you have are also Hybrids,
not road bikes with a flat bar...cuz that's what trek sends ya...

<< As I've said, I *will* give them what they want, but I'd rather give them what they "need."

Think ya need to examine your total market a little more closely...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

"Now, some people may prefer a flat bar road bike without even knowing about this difference in
riding position, but that still doesn't make them crazy. It's just a personal preference. I
like both.

Ed Chait"

I find myself reminded at this juncture, of a particular farce known as the "Moustache Handlebar"
The brainchild of a automoble tire manufacturer/self styled bicycling "expert".

Bridgestone

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Russell Yim wrote:
>> It's 100% fashion and marketing. The bicycle industry needs a new type of bike every few years.
>
> That's kinda what I was thinking.

We have a dude on our grouprides with flat bars and really nice wheels. He's young eager and really
honking away. However as soon as he reaches the front of the paceline the whole train slows down. It
happens every time because his position on the bike is so unaerodynamic.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Jon Isaacs]

><< As I've said, I *will* give them what they want, but I'd rather give them what they "need."

I am curious how you are able to determine what they need. What I am seeing here is a preconceived
notion of what people need rather than an individual evaluation based on riding history and skills,
body flexibility, personal choice.....

Jon Isaacs

 

[Russell Yim]

>But putting drop bars on these bikes for the retired crowd will not get them to ride more..

I'm not suggesting any such thing (and I note that most of the people buying these flat-bar road
bikes are not the "retired crowd.") All I am saying is that people shouldn't automatically assume
that drop-bars will be uncomfortable...that they ought to at least give them a test spin, so to
speak, before making a decision.

BTW, I am not suggesting here that flat-bars are inherently uncomfortable, just that for longer
rides, I believe drop-bars to be more comfortable due to their versitility.

>We build a standard road bike but with a flat bar all the time...for that segment of the population
>that is older than you(and me), want an upright postion, with hands around the shifters and brakes.
>These retired people(and there are a lot here) ride more than I do, not faster, but they are on
>their bikes all the time. The idea of taking that Torelli and insisting they put on drop bars, is
>ridiculous. THAT will take them off the bike.

Again, for those not paying attention, I am not insisting anything, just making suggestions and
personal recommendations. If flat-bars do indeed make someone a happier cyclist, I'm all for it.
Hopefully, they're all buying bar-ends to go along with those flat-bars!

>Bet yer boss loves you...I think the problem is that the flatbar bikes you have are also Hybrids,
>not road bikes with a flat bar...cuz that's what trek sends ya...

Actually, my boss does love me...my department does a roaring business.


Not sure what difference it makes whether a flat-bar is more leaning towards a hybrid than a road
bike...I think the delineations between bike categories is getting quite blurred. Some of the bikes
that we offer in the flat-bar road bike catagory are quite racy (zero-rise stems, boutique wheels,
tight gearing) while some of the drop-bar road bikes are very comfort oriented (long head tube,
fatter tires, low gearing.)

 

[Russell Yim]

>I am curious how you are able to determine what they need. What I am seeing here is a preconceived
>notion of what people need rather than an individual evaluation based on riding history and skills,
>body flexibility, personal choice.....

I determine their need by all the things you listed.

Many novices come in wanting a flat-bar road bike, without ever trying a drop-bar bike. They assume
that because "serious" cyclists and racers like Lance use drop-bars, they don't need that, because
they themselves aren't "serious." I would like those people to at least try out a drop-bar before
spending $$$, and judge for themselves what would be a better fit for them.

 

[Squid-In-Traini]

> Everyone has their own beliefs about bikes, riding, equipment choices, etc. I'm just expressing
> one of mine.

I think you're a little bit wrapped up in your own dogma, but you admit it, so that's cool.

Every retailer probably injects a bit of his or her own beliefs, but I can tell that you're probably
someone who pushes it just a tad further.

Hope those 25 years extend much further.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training