Flexible orange reflectors/flags

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by dave, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. dave

    dave Guest

    Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
    couldn't find anything. Thanks.
    david
     
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  2. PJ

    PJ Guest

    "dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    > back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    > idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
    > couldn't find anything. Thanks.
    > david


    Many moons ago I used to work in Halfords and we used to sell them then. I
    would have thought any good local cycle shop would be able to sell you one.

    PJ.
    80)
     
  3. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    dave wrote:
    > Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    > back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    > idea,


    The idea is to emphasise that you shouldn't squeeze past a bike with
    barely an inch to spare, which is a nice idea but in practice you'll
    probably achieve the same thing more effectively with better road
    positioning to start with.

    The point of the squeeze-past overtaking is that the car doesn't have to
    cross over to the opposite lane in order to pass the bike, and such a
    maneuver is generally made possible by the bike being in the gutter to
    start with. If you're riding further out the car is forced to overtake
    you as if you were another car (which is what should be happening, if
    you check in the Highway Code), and if they're doing that anyway there's
    no reason not to give you lots of room and IME that's what happens.

    So with better positioning they're mainly irrelevant, and thinking that
    way I've not researched buying one, so couldn't tell you where...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  4. Pete whelan

    Pete whelan Guest

    just be careful of yobs hanging out of car windows to grab them -
    targets to them.. Used to have one many,many years ago. Took it off
    after getting it hit a few too many times

    Peter Clinch wrote:
    > dave wrote:
    >
    >> Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    >> back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    >> idea,

    >
    >
    > The idea is to emphasise that you shouldn't squeeze past a bike with
    > barely an inch to spare, which is a nice idea but in practice you'll
    > probably achieve the same thing more effectively with better road
    > positioning to start with.
    >
    > The point of the squeeze-past overtaking is that the car doesn't have to
    > cross over to the opposite lane in order to pass the bike, and such a
    > maneuver is generally made possible by the bike being in the gutter to
    > start with. If you're riding further out the car is forced to overtake
    > you as if you were another car (which is what should be happening, if
    > you check in the Highway Code), and if they're doing that anyway there's
    > no reason not to give you lots of room and IME that's what happens.
    >
    > So with better positioning they're mainly irrelevant, and thinking that
    > way I've not researched buying one, so couldn't tell you where...
    >
    > Pete.
     
  5. Mike Gayler

    Mike Gayler Guest

    [email protected] (dave) writed in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    > back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    > idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
    > couldn't find anything. Thanks.
    > david


    I used to be a real evangelist for these, and certainly my lad had one on
    his bike when he was a young teenager learning to ride.
    Recently, for whatever reason, I started to feel less confident when
    being passed by fastish traffic on a particular stretch of suburban road
    on my way home from work. So I put one on my current bike (They are
    available from Wiggle).

    I started doing a non-statistically valid count of cars along this
    stretch who I felt passed too close, against those who I could see had at
    least crossed the central white line - on days with the flag out, and
    days with the flag not visible (they fold into the side of the carrier).

    The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
    make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
    bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
    intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?

    So I suppose the bottom line is that they do give a feeling of security,
    but don't *actually* do any good, and may, just make matters slightly
    worse. (H*lm*ts anyone?)

    Mike - Leicester
     
  6. davek

    davek Guest

    Mike Gayler wrote:
    > So I suppose the bottom line is that they do give a feeling of security,
    > but don't *actually* do any good, and may, just make matters slightly
    > worse.


    A bit like "baby on board" stickers in cars.

    d.
     
  7. D.M. Procida

    D.M. Procida Guest

    dave <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    > back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    > idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
    > couldn't find anything. Thanks.


    I had to give my girlfriend my bike lock because she broke hers (how? I
    don't know. Not with all my strength could I undo what she'd done to it)
    so I use the one I bought for my motorbike, which I never used with the
    bike (who's going to steal a C1?).

    It's a heavy flexible steel rope, covered in rubber, with a heavy lock.
    It's on my rack at the back, and for convenience I let it stick out and
    wobble menacingly at the traffic. I'm sure it could be adapted to look
    even more off-putting.

    Daniele
    --
    Apple Juice Ltd
    Chapter Arts Centre
    Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
    Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140
     
  8. chris French

    chris French Guest

    In message <[email protected]>, Mike
    Gayler <[email protected]> writes
    >[email protected] (dave) writed in
    >news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    >> back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    >> idea, and where can you buy them?


    >
    >Recently, for whatever reason, I started to feel less confident when
    >being passed by fastish traffic on a particular stretch of suburban road
    >on my way home from work. So I put one on my current bike (They are
    >available from Wiggle).
    >
    >
    >The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
    >make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
    >bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
    >intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?


    If it was a real effect I'd suggest it's because drivers see it as an
    indicator of how far out they need top go (probably subconciously).

    Anyway, I think they are waste of time, they don't actually stick out
    hat far anyway compared to say the edge of the handlebars, etc.

    anyway Halfords have them
    --
    Chris French, Leeds
     
  9. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:04:33 GMT, Mike Gayler
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
    >make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
    >bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
    >intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?


    Or it may encourage the dimmer sort of motorist to think you are
    pefectly safe as long as he misses the sticky out thing. A similar
    misconception explains why the MDGs are more, not less, likely to pass
    you too closely when you're in a (spit) cycle lane.

    --
    Dave...

    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain
     
  10. dave

    dave Guest

    Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
    But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
    to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
    obviously not. Maybe this will stop vehicles speeding inches past me.
    I do find most drivers are quite good and give ample room when they
    pass, but I find black taxi drivers will often overtake very close. I
    know I'm often in a bus lane which is shared by black cabs but I don't
    have this problem with buses. Thanks again for all the advice. /dave
     
  11. njf>badger

    njf>badger Guest

    Mike Gayler wrote:
    > The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
    > make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
    > bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
    > intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?


    No, it draws the eye, and that tends to pull their attention and vehicle
    towards you, warning beacons on vehicles also have a similar effect in
    some situations.
    When I instructed on motorcycles we taught observation of drain covers,
    recongnition of risk there from, then looking to the left or right there
    of to the best/safest line to avoid them, looking at them tended to pull
    the rider over them.
    Tall flags on bents however do help truckers and car drivers spot you!

    Niel.
     
  12. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    On 10/9/04 8:59 am, in article
    [email protected], "dave"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
    > But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
    > to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
    > obviously not. Maybe this will stop vehicles speeding inches past me.
    > I do find most drivers are quite good and give ample room when they
    > pass, but I find black taxi drivers will often overtake very close. I
    > know I'm often in a bus lane which is shared by black cabs but I don't
    > have this problem with buses. Thanks again for all the advice. /dave


    You need to read the Theory of BIG.

    http://www.bikereader.com/BikeReader/contributors/misc/big.html

    ...d
     
  13. >Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
    >But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
    >to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
    >obviously not. Maybe this will stop vehicles speeding inches past me.
    >I do find most drivers are quite good and give ample room when they
    >pass, but I find black taxi drivers will often overtake very close. I
    >know I'm often in a bus lane which is shared by black cabs but I don't
    >have this problem with buses. Thanks again for all the advice. /dave


    Cycling you need to be at least a metre out from the kerb. Honest. Drivers can
    be thoughtless, incompetent and downright dangerous, but I don't think the vast
    majority *intend* to cause a cyclist harm. BUT, if you cycle in the gutter you
    are sending out what is in effect a sub-concious message that you don't need
    room and drivers *will* think they can overtake you without having to pull out.
    If you learn to cycle *assertively* and this means cycling *in traffic* as you
    *are* traffic, then you will find that drivers, on the whole, will give you
    more room when the overtake. You are entitled to use the road - use it, don't
    cycle as if you are cowering in the gutter :) There's a road in Dereham which
    is on the narrow side for a two-lane road. I see cyclists using the double
    yellow lines down the side as a cycle lane... this is *nuts*. The effect is
    they get cars going by them at relatively high speed and the cyclists end up
    wobbling along, in the "cycle lane", over the drain covers and in the broken
    glass & stones which inhabit the gutter. This is much, much more dangerous than
    cycling out from the gutter so cars *have* to slow for you and wait until it is
    safe to overtake.

    Cheers, helen s





    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*[email protected]$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--
     
  14. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, chris French
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > In message <[email protected]>, Mike
    > Gayler <[email protected]> writes
    >>[email protected] (dave) writed in
    >>news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >>> Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
    >>> back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
    >>> idea, and where can you buy them?

    >
    >>Recently, for whatever reason, I started to feel less confident when
    >>being passed by fastish traffic on a particular stretch of suburban
    >>road on my way home from work. So I put one on my current bike (They
    >>are available from Wiggle).
    >>
    >>The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
    >>make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
    >>bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is
    >>counter- intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers
    >>up?

    >
    > If it was a real effect I'd suggest it's because drivers see it as an
    > indicator of how far out they need top go (probably subconciously).
    >
    > Anyway, I think they are waste of time, they don't actually stick out
    > hat far anyway compared to say the edge of the handlebars, etc.


    There are also telescopic things with LED lights on which fit into the
    end of straight handlebars. The stalk part is flexible, so they
    shouldn't snap off too easily. There was a very positive review of them
    in Velovision recently.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.
     
  15. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    dave wrote:
    > Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
    > But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
    > to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
    > obviously not.


    Get a copy of "Cyclecraft" by John Franklin, Publisher: The Stationery
    Office Books; ISBN: 0117020516.

    It's all about how to maximise your safety cycling on roads amongst
    traffic, and is /very/ well worth getting. Rather more so than
    reflective poles!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
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