Florida Passes New Bike Law !!!!!!!



"John Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-10-10, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8 Oct 2006 17:41:55 -0700, "Beach Runner" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Motorists must leave 3 feet of clearance when passing a bicyclist.
>>>
>>>I'm usually satisfied with 2 inches!!!!!
>>>
>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/wpbf/20061002/lo_wpbf/9977279

>
>> Particularly in Florida, merely making something illegal will not keep
>> it from happening; if that were true, we would need no police.
>>
>> I would caution Florida riders to increase their vigilance and perhaps
>> add a rear-view mirror to their gear at this point. In my opinion, if
>> the reaction to the new law can be predicted in any manner, it is that
>> there will be assholes around who will *intentionally* see just how
>> close they can come to cyclists when they perceive that there is no
>> enforcement possible.

>
> Maybe a 3' long fiberglass pole with bright orange flag and a carbide
> tip might be in order? :)


I vote for a bazooka, myself. (g)
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Wayne Pein wrote:
>
>>
>>Folks, motorists already know their responsibilities when passing
>>bicyclists. It's to be courteous.

>
>
> I'm not sure about that. While I don't get hassled much, I
> occasionally hear "GET ON THE SIDEWALK!!"
>
> I think some of those lamebrains actually _don't_ know the rules or
> responsibilities.
>
> What was that quote? Something like "Never ascribe to malice what can
> be explained by stupidity."
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>


Frank,

Most of them are pulling your chain, simply being assholes. Perhaps a
few genuinely believe you should be on the sidewalk and so become
emboldened vigilantes to let you know. Big deal. The other day a pickup
truck driver pulled up next to me and said, "Get the hell off the road."
I said "Thanks for the tip. Pull over so we can talk about it." He kept
going. Also the other day a bicyclist pointed at her helmet in an
attempt to educate me to put mine on. I told her to mind her own
business. See how easy it is to educate others?

If there is to be government sanctioned education and laws regarding
bicycling, they ought to be optimal in order to counteract pervasive
ignorance. A 3' passing clearance law is miseducation.

Wayne
Same Roads. Same Rules. Same Rights.
 
"Wayne Pein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Wayne Pein wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Folks, motorists already know their responsibilities when passing
>>>bicyclists. It's to be courteous.

>>
>>
>> I'm not sure about that. While I don't get hassled much, I
>> occasionally hear "GET ON THE SIDEWALK!!"
>>
>> I think some of those lamebrains actually _don't_ know the rules or
>> responsibilities.
>>
>> What was that quote? Something like "Never ascribe to malice what can
>> be explained by stupidity."
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>

>
> Frank,
>
> Most of them are pulling your chain, simply being assholes. Perhaps a few
> genuinely believe you should be on the sidewalk and so become emboldened
> vigilantes to let you know. Big deal. The other day a pickup truck driver
> pulled up next to me and said, "Get the hell off the road."


If you are riding like you present yourself in here then you should get the
hell off the road. There are rules for a purpose. When two "Rights" try to
occupy the same space then both "Rights" become privileges.


> I said "Thanks for the tip. Pull over so we can talk about it." He kept
> going.


Yah, right. I am about 240 lbs. Should I try to get a motorist to pull
over to discuss their bad behavior I don' t expect them to do so. While I
have a pretty good idea what their frame of mind is, they have no idea what
mine is. Do I wish to talk or get into a brawl. Better to keep right on a
truckin.


Also the other day a bicyclist pointed at her helmet in an
> attempt to educate me to put mine on. I told her to mind her own business.
> See how easy it is to educate others?


See how easy it is to not ignore something extremely trivial and **** of
everyone around you?



>
> If there is to be government sanctioned education and laws regarding
> bicycling, they ought to be optimal in order to counteract pervasive
> ignorance. A 3' passing clearance law is miseducation.


When they pass any laws that you don't agree with you think that you
shouldn't adhere to them? The 3 foot law is responsable. And that is the
minimum, not the maximum distance allowed. I imagine that even more is
warrented if need be. But I like the 3 foot limit. Usually, if you know
there is a 3 foot limit, you error to the outside of that number. I am
usually given 4 feet or more clearance and I can live with 3 feet. I can't
live with one foot or less, and I mean that literally.


>
> Wayne
> Same Roads. Same Rules. Same Rights.


Are you saying that you should have the same rights as a farm tractor? Or
how about a tobaggon. Or maybe skate boards? Or even a heavy hauler 18
wheeler? All of these have different rules than either cars or bikes. The
roads may be the same but the rules and rights are different due to the
vehicle itself.
 
On 11 Oct 2006 09:13:16 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>I'm not sure about that. While I don't get hassled much, I
>occasionally hear "GET ON THE SIDEWALK!!"


Particularly amusing when there's no sidewalk!

>I think some of those lamebrains actually _don't_ know the rules or
>responsibilities.


I'd agree completely if you changed "some" to "most."

Pat

Email address works as is.
 
Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:

>How are minimum passing clearance laws working in other states that have
>had them?
>
>A. Fabulously well. Most motorists now love bicyclists, waving as they
>pass. Many offenders are behind bars.
>B. Well. Many hit from behind collisions have been avoided, and
>motorists have an Adopt a Cyclist program.
>C. Huh?
>D. A single motorist got a slap on the wrist for passing 2.5 feet
>E. Motorists are sick of whiny bicyclists and see how close they can
>pass and get away with it, kinda like a rolling stop at signs.


They seem to work just fine here in Arizona. I get buzzed MUCH less
than I have in any other location I've ever ridden in. Don't know if
has squat to do with bike lanes, passing restrictions or the fact that
few people from the northeast live here... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
 
Daryl Hunt wrote:

Nothing of substance, but plenty of idioic blather.

Wayne
 
Daryl Hunt wrote:


>
>>Wayne
>>Same Roads. Same Rules. Same Rights.

>
>
> Are you saying that you should have the same rights as a farm tractor?


Why not?

By the way. Farm tractors don't have rights. Drivers of farm tractors
have rights.

Or
> how about a tobaggon. Or maybe skate boards?


These are not classified as vehicles as are bicycles.

Or even a heavy hauler 18
> wheeler? All of these have different rules than either cars or bikes. The
> roads may be the same but the rules and rights are different due to the
> vehicle itself.


Prove it.

Wayne
 
Mark Hickey wrote:

> Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>How are minimum passing clearance laws working in other states that have
>>had them?
>>
>>A. Fabulously well. Most motorists now love bicyclists, waving as they
>>pass. Many offenders are behind bars.
>>B. Well. Many hit from behind collisions have been avoided, and
>>motorists have an Adopt a Cyclist program.
>>C. Huh?
>>D. A single motorist got a slap on the wrist for passing 2.5 feet
>>E. Motorists are sick of whiny bicyclists and see how close they can
>>pass and get away with it, kinda like a rolling stop at signs.

>
>
> They seem to work just fine here in Arizona. I get buzzed MUCH less
> than I have in any other location I've ever ridden in. Don't know if
> has squat to do with bike lanes, passing restrictions or the fact that
> few people from the northeast live here... ;-)
>


It's due to all the kindly Mexicans. In spite of their poor driving
record with regard to DUI, I've never been buzzed by a hispanic.

Wayne
 
John Thompson wrote:


>
> Maybe a 3' long fiberglass pole with bright orange flag and a carbide
> tip might be in order? :)
>

How about a 5' long one with a plastic explosives tip? ;-)

Wayne
 
Wayne Pein wrote:
> GDS,
>
> My allegedly extreme positions are due your complicit acceptance of bad
> laws.
>
> Wayne
> I can say black, you'd say white.


No, it just seems that we have very different riding experiences. I
ride a fair bit- 4-6 days a week and ~5000 miles a year. I've lived and
ridden in the midwest, northeast, and now the southwest. I just don't
seem to experience all the problems that you do.

I find the behavior of the vast majority of motorists just fine. I
don't experience all the bad and hostile drivers that you do.

That said I also spend very little time challenging them. I do make an
effort to find riding routes that I feel are most conducive to bikes
and cars co existing. That does little to hamper me in where I want to
go nor does it seriously lengthen (or shorten) my rides.

Do you ever think that by constantly being confrontational you are
actually encouraging the behavior you are wishing to change? I don't
say that is the way things should be but in fact it is often the case
that folks become more beligerant and hostile from confrontation. Sure
in egregious cases confrontation may be the only viable path; but you
seem to relish and over use the technique.
My 2 cents
 
"Wayne Pein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How are minimum passing clearance laws working in other states that have
>>>had them?
>>>
>>>A. Fabulously well. Most motorists now love bicyclists, waving as they
>>>pass. Many offenders are behind bars.
>>>B. Well. Many hit from behind collisions have been avoided, and motorists
>>>have an Adopt a Cyclist program.
>>>C. Huh?
>>>D. A single motorist got a slap on the wrist for passing 2.5 feet
>>>E. Motorists are sick of whiny bicyclists and see how close they can pass
>>>and get away with it, kinda like a rolling stop at signs.

>>
>>
>> They seem to work just fine here in Arizona. I get buzzed MUCH less
>> than I have in any other location I've ever ridden in. Don't know if
>> has squat to do with bike lanes, passing restrictions or the fact that
>> few people from the northeast live here... ;-)
>>

>
> It's due to all the kindly Mexicans. In spite of their poor driving record
> with regard to DUI, I've never been buzzed by a hispanic.
>
> Wayne


Ah, the bigot speaks.
 

> On 2006-10-10, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I would caution Florida riders to increase their vigilance and perhaps
>> add a rear-view mirror to their gear at this point. In my opinion, if
>> the reaction to the new law can be predicted in any manner, it is that
>> there will be assholes around who will *intentionally* see just how
>> close they can come to cyclists when they perceive that there is no
>> enforcement possible.


John Thompson wrote:
> Maybe a 3' long fiberglass pole with bright orange flag and a carbide
> tip might be in order? :)


How about a spring loaded paint roller to give cars a good, hot pink
stripe when they pass to close? It'll be a scarlet letter of sorts ;)
\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
..:change the f to ph to reply:.
 
gds wrote:

> Wayne Pein wrote:
>
>>GDS,
>>
>>My allegedly extreme positions are due your complicit acceptance of bad
>>laws.
>>
>>Wayne
>>I can say black, you'd say white.

>
>
> No, it just seems that we have very different riding experiences. I
> ride a fair bit- 4-6 days a week and ~5000 miles a year. I've lived and
> ridden in the midwest, northeast, and now the southwest. I just don't
> seem to experience all the problems that you do.


Where have I ever said I experience many problems? That is your fabrication!

> I find the behavior of the vast majority of motorists just fine. I
> don't experience all the bad and hostile drivers that you do.
>


So do I.

Wayne
 
Daryl Hunt wrote:


>>
>>It's due to all the kindly Mexicans. In spite of their poor driving record
>>with regard to DUI, I've never been buzzed by a hispanic.
>>
>>Wayne

>
>
> Ah, the bigot speaks.
>


Hey Ignoramus, I'm not a bigot because hispanics are overrepresented in
DUI. It's a fact.

Wayne
 
Wayne Pein wrote:

> Where have I ever said I experience many problems? That is your fabrication!
>
> > I find the behavior of the vast majority of motorists just fine. I
> > don't experience all the bad and hostile drivers that you do.
> >

>
> So do I.
>
> Wayne


OK, so then why do you get so worked up? I simply don't see the great
infringement on cyclist's rights that you do. However, as I've noted
the way you describe how you actually behave while riding is much less
agressive than what you often describe as necessary to protect one's
rights.

I guess I'm just turned off by the absolutism that you espouse; but not
nearly so with your actual (self described) riding behavior and wonder
why the disconnect.
 
gds wrote:

> Wayne Pein wrote:
>
>
>>Where have I ever said I experience many problems? That is your fabrication!
>>
>>
>>>I find the behavior of the vast majority of motorists just fine. I
>>>don't experience all the bad and hostile drivers that you do.
>>>

>>
>>So do I.
>>
>>Wayne

>
>
> OK, so then why do you get so worked up? I simply don't see the great
> infringement on cyclist's rights that you do.


I state my case emphatically (you call it getting worked up) because
there is a lot of misinformation put out by government and ngo's about
bicycling, and this misinformation is a source of problems that need not
exist. That you don't see bad facilities and bad law as infringement on
cyclist's rights is your perogative. I see it differently and work to
change it.

Wayne
 
Wayne Pein wrote:

> I state my case emphatically (you call it getting worked up) because
> there is a lot of misinformation put out by government and ngo's about
> bicycling, and this misinformation is a source of problems that need not
> exist. That you don't see bad facilities and bad law as infringement on
> cyclist's rights is your perogative. I see it differently and work to
> change it.
>
> Wayne


I guess the difference is that I don't see all these bad laws and and
bad facilites. I imagine it varies by jurisdiction but I've lived and
cycled int he midwest, northeast, and now the southwest and just
haven't run into the problems that you are attacking.

And at least here in southern Arizona the governmental folks are
actually pretty sensitive to cyclists and are cooperative. In fact a
number of them are active cyclists.There are a number of planning
bodies and they include cyclists and actually listen to them. So, at
least here, from a a facility point of view the newer roads are all
great for cyclists. I can imagine tht in a less enlightened atmosphere
there can be a building of frustration.

But even so having worked on the staff of congress people and one
governor I can tell you that when the voices get too shrill they get
very discounted.
 

Similar threads