Floyd Landis - The Latest News

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by greatlakeshsa, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. greatlakeshsa

    greatlakeshsa New Member

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    Tests performed on the cyclist Floyd Landis’s initial urine sample showed that some of the testosterone in his body had come from an external source and was not produced by his system, according to a person at the International Cycling Union with knowledge of the results.
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    I just wonder if the NYT lifted the same article that was written in L'Equipe three days earier and had the same "source" from the ICU. Would the NYT ever copy another article......As for the carbon test, the lap initially said they didn't do that test on Floyd's urine - they did the T/E Test. then it comes out in the press that the TE test is a joke and hasn't been used by the IOC in 8 years because it produced too many false positives. All of a sudden it is "leaked" Oh yeah, ""we also did that carbon test"" - same result. Hmmmmm.

    Newspapers all over Europe were reporting the exact same story that the Times had - and mentioned the same source. I wonder if this source called every newspaper and gave the same story....or maybe the Times writers also read French newspapers like I do.

    I am not saying Floyd is guilty or innocent - but until someone comes out and says "on the record" that the Carbon test was done, and there was synthetic testo in his system, he is still innocent.
     


  2. capwater

    capwater New Member

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    I go back the the simple fact that if Floyd naturally carries a high testosterone level, why didn't this come out in earlier tests (both in the Tour and other races like TdeGA and TdeCA)? Whether the test was bodged or not, I don't buy that defense since it has no prior history. Also, while alcohol may increase T, you don't go from 4:1 to 11:1 with a couple of shots of Jack Black, the increase is only going to be very slight. One thing is for sure though, this thing is far from over and it will be in the courts for some time. "Floyd Landis has hired Southern California based attorney Howard L. Jacobs, who has extensive experience defending athletes accused of doping such as Tyler Hamilton." Maybe hiring Tyler's attorney isn't the best of choices! G'day.....
     
  3. tfstrum

    tfstrum New Member

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  4. geardad

    geardad New Member

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    If you think my comments are naive, you can flame me to kingdom comes, but here goes:

    Not only do I think any/all doping should be stopped, but I think the sponsors should take a hike and there ought to be limits on the bike gear used.

    What IS bicycle racing? is it about taking advantage of high-tech gizmos and big pharma products, or is it about the passion, the struggle, the drama of a bunch of human beings on bikes riding a great race?

    I'm going with the latter. Think of the great riders and what they rode on! like sticks and stones compared to modern whizzy bikes. Let cycling be pure! Let it be about people riding their bikes the best they can by working out, concentrating, eating normal food and riding normal bikes, and with NO dope of any kind.

    Now, if Landis doped, kick him out of the sport. But if he didn't and it seems that the testing authorities are up to monkey business, then I don't even want to hear about the "sport" of cycling any more.

    Maybe cyclists should take the sport back, have our own race, where the winner gets a free beer, and everyone riding is there for the love of RIDING.

    Anyone here who "gets" cycling knows that The Tour isn't about winning, anyway. It's only the high-dollar sponsors who foist that on the sport.


    gd
     
  5. Imback

    Imback New Member

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    I really like your point of view, and I really hope some day the sports gets cleaned, however as long as there is money involved in doping, that is not going to happen anytime soon.:mad:
     
  6. FrankBattle

    FrankBattle New Member

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    Hard to find fault with your points. Unfortunately, money rules.
     
  7. geardad

    geardad New Member

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    yeah, but I suggest we take a good, HARD look at that and decide whether, ironically, we can afford it, or not.

    what do I mean by this? Money, whether greenbacks, financial notes, or even gold bars is only symbolic in value. Gold has some scientific applications as a material, but as a money, it only represents value.

    somebody going out and growing a crop of tomatoes, or making a bunch of tables and chairs..that's REAL value.

    Now, a bike race? That's food for the soul. That's where your mind gets to play, to dream, to get excited about what some people are doing, the outcome of which is not a life or death struggle.

    Plug money into the watching of and the having of that experience in a way that one illusion chases another, and you get cheated out of the first, and get stuck with the second.

    Then, what do you have? You have not the experience you wanted to have, but the one that t-mobile and phonak or whoever, want you to have.

    We need to decide whether our lives are going to be "brought to you by our sponsor," or are they going to be real things that we enjoy they way we want to. And if not, then......

    gd
     
  8. MartinInMass

    MartinInMass New Member

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    They could take an approach like the American NFL, and have companies bid for exclusive equipment rights - and they bid a LOT. For example, all the helmets in the NFL are from one company, save for about a handful used by a few athletes. Those helmets have to have the manufacturers logo/tag stripped off as leaving it on violates the contract.

    I'm not saying this is the best system, but it would keep the money required to operate this and fund teams in play.
     
  9. BillBB

    BillBB New Member

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    Anyway, I agree that they should let them use whatever they want and quit the hipocresy. I really don't give a fuck if Mr. Landis, Gonchar, etc. is time trialing 62kph with an 75 hematocrit and a heart the size of a watermelon. But I am really sick of "guilty" riders being expelled from the races without even testing positive only to find out a few years later that the "clean" one are not really clean. In my opinion, they are all walking pharmacies.[/QUOTE]

    I understand your point of view here. I have at times had the same thoughts. But we have to look at the bigger picture here. We know that doping can have very harmful effects to your health.
    If doping was to be allowed, think of this:

    1) What would you tell your 16 year old son/daughter who wishes to exel in sports and asks you for money so he/she can dope?

    2) We will end up subsidizing these athlete's medical bills once they start having medical problems as a result of years of doping. And we all know how high these can be!

    3) Those who choose the high road should be given the opportunity of a level playing field.

    Bottom line, I think the effort to clean the sport (all sports for that matter) should continue no matter what.
     
  10. geardad

    geardad New Member

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    well, if ya say "everyone shud be able to dope" then that's sort of a wash, and you might as well say everyone should be clean, because in either scenario, riders are on the same footing.

    they ought to NOT dope, because not doping is the more natural and smarter way to run and maintain a human body.

    if I watch a bunch of doped up athletes competing, I can't really envision myself getting better at cycling the way that they do, bcs I'm not interested in trashing my body for a few seconds or a few years of "glory."

    some kids get to look up to guys like merckx, who worked hard and were talented, other kids are stuck with "idols" who won there races with dope.

    gd
     
  11. BillBB

    BillBB New Member

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    Repost to avoid confusion,...

    I understand your point of view here. I have at times had the same thoughts. But we have to look at the bigger picture here. We know that doping can have very harmful effects to your health.
    If doping was to be allowed, think of this:

    1) What would you tell your 16 year old son/daughter who wishes to exel in sports and asks you for money so he/she can dope?

    2) We will end up subsidizing these athlete's medical bills once they start having medical problems as a result of years of doping. And we all know how high these can be!

    3) Those who choose the high road should be given the opportunity of a level playing field.

    Bottom line, I think the effort to clean the sport (all sports for that matter) should continue no matter what.
     
  12. bergzy

    bergzy New Member

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    remember the skit on saturday night live where they had 'the all drug olympics'? take whatever you want! it was a hilarious yet sadly rang a certain amount of real life.

    drugs and doping are always going to be a part of any competition...even beta blockers to 'calm' one down in a shaprshooter's competition.

    i stopped competing in cycling after i found out some of my cat riders were on the 'juice'. for me, it just wasnt worth it to juice up as well to compete to become a pro. though i love/loved competing...there is no real income unless you are at the very very top of the sport...and a lot of us already know what it takes for some to get up there.

    is it all about money? for me, for the most part, i will say 'yes, to a certain degree. one has to be able to support themsleves'. please, i am not talking about serious recreational cycling, sport, club etc. i am talking about trying to scrape out a living by becoming a professional cyclist. very, very hard work...short career...very very little pay.

    want another example? i am also a trained classical violinist. my nick is even a shortened version of carlo bergonzi...my favorite 18th century violin maker. how hard is it to make a 'good' living as a classical musician? probably about the same as being an elite world class cyclist. only a handful of violinists (most likely less than pro cyclsts) ever make it to where they can afford to purchase thir own instrument outright. most violinits have there multi-million dollar instruments on loan to them from wealthy patrons.

    thus...

    my very happily chosen profession is a practicing doctor. yes, a lot of very hard work but i love what i do and wouldnt trade anything for it. for me, it was much more effortless to become a doctor than a successful professional cyclist or musician.

    as a parent myself...we as parents always want our children to be the 'best' and that they are, 'gifted' or 'unique', 'special', 'genius' and the list goes on.

    in reality...most of us are and will be of the norm, the median and average. yeah, i sound like a wet towel but, sorry to burst any bubbles, that is the reality i see on a daily basis.

    not all of us are destined to be average joes. one of my friends son's is a world series winning pitcher. yep, the mlb not little league. i asked him when he knew that his kid had the potential to be a pro pitcher? he said the scouts had their eyes on him since he was nine...but he still worked his butt off to get into the pros.

    so, to make a long story short...greatness is evident at an early age. most of us parents dream that our kid is going to write the next great american novel, cure cancer or break multiple world records. it never ever hurts to try but true greatness is effortless to a certain degree.

    i will use my kids as an example. dont get me wrong, i love them both dearly and would do anything for them!

    both of them did not study for their SAT's...the older scored 1500 and the younger scored a 1580. 1600 is perfect. the older one went to UCLA (rated no 6 in the nation by us news) and graduated with a double major. the younger got into stanford (ties ucla for no 6 by us news) and gets a bachleors and masters from there.

    both are gifted performing artists as well. playing piano at near performance level and voice. the younger also enjoys ballet. and to not want to sound like a proud parent...they are both very beautiful physically. i did not force them to do anything they did not want to do...nor will i take credit for their choice of attending the university they attended. i encouraged, supported and guided them as best i could. i also did the best i could to not foster conceit, narcism or egocentricity. it is/was a very tough balance.

    all this natural high intelligence, gifting of the arts and so on...what do they end up doing in life? nothing. they do absolutely nothing in life.

    am i disappointed? i would be lying if i said no. i have observed for the most part, that a successful individual is slef driven. encouragement helps a little but is usually not required. winners tend to 'do it on their own'.

    so, to answer the question of what to say to your child if they want money to buy steroids or whatever to win at all costs? if they are old enough to understand about using steroids etc to increase the possibility of winning...they are old enough to hear my altered speech from 'pulp fiction'...'you have talent...but if you were going to make it...you would have made it by now...you came close...but youre not going to get there...enjoy what you are doing, try your hardest and know that i love you always'.

    i know a lot of self declared genius'...they turn out to be annoying. and i know a lot of real genuis'...they are really weird and social outcasts. being 'normal' is not a crime...it is just a crime to those who are normal.

    that was a long rant...but hopefully, it will make sense to some who read it.
     
  13. lonympics

    lonympics New Member

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  14. tfstrum

    tfstrum New Member

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    I thought you'd open the link and see pictures of open medicine cabinets, or pretty pictures of multi colored pills...
     
  15. Cod

    Cod New Member

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    Bergzy: Your comments contain a lot of truth, most of us by definition fit into the middle of the bell curve in terms of intellect and physical prowess. While it doesn't hurt to try, it probably does harm to encourage someone who clearly has no chance of attaining greatness in their chosen field. In most cases however its a bit murkier than that; there is no clear border between mediocre and great. I learned very early on that I would never make the grade as a racing cyclist no matter how hard I tried, and only recently (25 years later) discovered that there was a cardiac limitation that explained why. Similarly with music; in my case it was pop/rock, but I knew after a few years that if "I was going to make it it would have happened by now".
    I'm a bit puzzled when you say your kids do nothing in life; do you mean that they don't work at all, or that they work at menial jobs? In any case you clearly did your best to give them the best start in life. This is what I hope to do for my son; we don't have access to the same quality of education but within economic limits I'll encourage him to use his full potential and find his strengths.
     
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