Forget about Eddie Merckx. He only won five Tour de France.



[email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Ronde Champ) wrote:
>
> >Hey,
> >
> > Eddy Merckx was only able to win five Tour de France. Lance Armstrong
> >has won six.

>
> Tour de France is just one race, not even the top one.
>
> Milano-San Remo, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix, Liège-Bastogne-Liège
> and Giro di Lombardia are the real deal, the only immortal races. In a few
> years, when France will be a muslim republic, there won't any TdF anymore.
> The monuments are immortal, the only cycling races that are doomed to last
> forever.
>
> Not just Merckx, but DeVlaeminck, Museeuw, Van Steenbergen, Van Looy etc...
> were all superior to Armstrong by far.


I really like this statement! Especially when i comes from an italian.
 
[email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> >I see you're at least one European that's paying attention Davide.
> >What's Italy going to do with its Muslim problem? Probably go belly up
> >as well?

>
> No. Thanks to presence of the great Bossi and his Lega Nord (Northern
> League) in the government, we adopted a strong anti-immigration law, with
> immediate expulsion of the ones that do not adapt to our laws. It is
> working and in fact we are managing to have more immigrants from East
> Europe (those people are essentially like us, so they integrate well) or
> China than from the muslim countries. A few imams had already been sent
> back to where they come from. The ones that are still here had their
> communities widely infiltrated by Secret Services. The local populations,
> authorities and judges are also well resisting most requests to have the
> muslim traditions introduced in public situations (like ramadan been
> recognized as a school holiday or no pork in canteens).


That's the kinda country i want to grow old in.
 
[email protected] (Andre) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> You must be on heavy drugs Ronde..or delusional..or both
> Why does anyone mention Merckx in the same paragraph with Armstrong?
> Merckx won:
> Championnat du Monde- 3 times
> Championnat de Belgique - i time
> Milan-S.R. - 7 times
> Tour de Flandres- 2 times
> Paris-Roubaix- 3 times
> Liege-Bastogne-Liege- 5 times
> Gold Race - 2 times
> Tour de Lombardie - 2 times
> Circuit Het Volk - 2 times
> Gand-Wevelgem - 3 times
> Fleche Wallone - 3 times
> Paris-Bruxelles- 1 time
> G.P. de L'Escaut- 1 time
> Henninget Turm - 1 time
> Tour de France - 5 times
> Tour d'Italie - 5 times
> Tour de Suisse- 1 time
> Tour d'Espagne- 1 time
> Tour de Belgique - 2 times
> Criterium du Dauphine - 1 time
> G.P. du Fourmies - 1 time
> G.P. du Midi Libre - 1 time
> Paris-Nice - 3 times
> Tour de Morbihan - 1 time
> Tour Mediterraneen - 1 time
> Semaine Catalane - 2 times
> Tour de Catalogne - 1 time
> Tour du Levant - 1 time
> Tour de Sardaigne - 4 times
> Tour de Romandie - 1 time
> Paris-Luxembourg - 1 time
> Championnat de Flandres - 1 time
> Circuit de la vallee de la Lys- 1 time
> Fleche Brabanconne - 1 time
> G.P. Cerami- Wasmuel- 1 time
> Prix de Cloture-Putte Kapellen- 1 time
> G.P. Union Dortmund - 2 times
> Copa Agostini - 1 time
> Trofeo Laigueglia - 2 times
> G.P. des Nations - 1 time
> G.P. Lugano - 1 time
> Trophee Baracchi - 3 times
> Montjuich - 6 times
> A travers Lausanne - 4 times
> Criterium des As - 3 times
> Chateaulin - 3 times
>
> And those are only the principal victories; he won over 300 races.
>
> Andre


over 500 that is.
 
[email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Ronde Champ) wrote:


> Tour de France is just one race, not even the top one.


tdf not the top one? i guess you're the type to call the Super Bowl
just another game not the tope one? or you think game 7 of the World
Series just another regular game?

i'm not about to tell you what most if not all pro racers view the
tdf, but i think its about as "top" as you can get.
 
"Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > >I see you're at least one European that's paying attention Davide.
> > >What's Italy going to do with its Muslim problem? Probably go belly up
> > >as well?

> >
> > No. Thanks to presence of the great Bossi and his Lega Nord (Northern
> > League) in the government, we adopted a strong anti-immigration law,

with
> > immediate expulsion of the ones that do not adapt to our laws. It is
> > working and in fact we are managing to have more immigrants from East
> > Europe (those people are essentially like us, so they integrate well) or
> > China than from the muslim countries. A few imams had already been sent
> > back to where they come from. The ones that are still here had their
> > communities widely infiltrated by Secret Services. The local

populations,
> > authorities and judges are also well resisting most requests to have the
> > muslim traditions introduced in public situations (like ramadan been
> > recognized as a school holiday or no pork in canteens).

>
> That's the kinda country i want to grow old in.


So the Italians shouldn't be allowed to maintain their own culture in your
view?
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message

> news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > >I see you're at least one European that's paying attention Davide.
> > > >What's Italy going to do with its Muslim problem? Probably go belly up
> > > >as well?
> > >
> > > No. Thanks to presence of the great Bossi and his Lega Nord (Northern
> > > League) in the government, we adopted a strong anti-immigration law,

> with
> > > immediate expulsion of the ones that do not adapt to our laws. It is
> > > working and in fact we are managing to have more immigrants from East
> > > Europe (those people are essentially like us, so they integrate well) or
> > > China than from the muslim countries. A few imams had already been sent
> > > back to where they come from. The ones that are still here had their
> > > communities widely infiltrated by Secret Services. The local

> populations,
> > > authorities and judges are also well resisting most requests to have the
> > > muslim traditions introduced in public situations (like ramadan been
> > > recognized as a school holiday or no pork in canteens).

> >
> > That's the kinda country i want to grow old in.

>
> So the Italians shouldn't be allowed to maintain their own culture in your
> view?


?? I think that's what Tosi is saying. They're protecting their
culture and social life by this anti-immigration law. That's what i
like about it. Besides their antique culture, great food,
extraordinary landscapes, beautiful women, cycling & football, the
language, sun and sea, ice creams, ....

Kenny
 
[email protected] (DrewDog) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Ronde Champ) wrote:

>
> > Tour de France is just one race, not even the top one.

>
> tdf not the top one? i guess you're the type to call the Super Bowl
> just another game not the tope one? or you think game 7 of the World
> Series just another regular game?
>
> i'm not about to tell you what most if not all pro racers view the
> tdf, but i think its about as "top" as you can get.


Don't take it literally. It's more the expression of the fact that
cycling is more than just 3 weeks in july.

Btw, besides the fact that i have to watch the superbowl at 2 AM, it
is the most boring sport i've ever seen. I have no idea what you guys
find so interesting about it. The game is always interupted after
like 3 seconds. Then it's always waiting and seeing guys with giant
headsets getting nervous... I rather like english rugby which is much
more vivid to see. And why the hell is it called FOOTball if the game
mainly consists of throwing the ball and running with the ball. I
don't mean this denigrating, i just don't get it (same thing about
baseball).

Kenny
 
[email protected] (Andre) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Ronde Champ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Hey,
> >
> > Eddy Merckx was only able to win five Tour de France. Lance Armstrong
> > has won six. Total stage wins, days in yellow, or even wins in other
> > bicycle competitions is not the discussion.
> >
> > If The Cannibal wants to compare to Lance, he will have to dust of
> > his bicycle, lose the fat ass, and enter the 2005 edition of the
> > World's Most Grueling Sporting Event.
> >
> > That smelly Belgian might have been good in his simplistic era, but
> > would be among the roadside trash (Beloki, Vino, Simoni, Heras,
> > Botero, Mayo, Hamilton, etc..) that finds themselves talking the big
> > talk in June, only to look like quitters, weaklings, and other various
> > sacks of **** by mid July every year.
> >
> > Lance Armstrong is the most winning Tour de France champion in the
> > history of the world. Fixed carnival kermesse's that pad a career
> > total don't enter the picture here.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ronde Champ

> You must be on heavy drugs Ronde..or delusional..or both
> Why does anyone mention Merckx in the same paragraph with Armstrong?
> Merckx won:
> Championnat du Monde- 3 times
> Championnat de Belgique - i time
> Milan-S.R. - 7 times
> Tour de Flandres- 2 times
> Paris-Roubaix- 3 times
> Liege-Bastogne-Liege- 5 times
> Gold Race - 2 times
> Tour de Lombardie - 2 times
> Circuit Het Volk - 2 times
> Gand-Wevelgem - 3 times
> Fleche Wallone - 3 times
> Paris-Bruxelles- 1 time
> G.P. de L'Escaut- 1 time
> Henninget Turm - 1 time
> Tour de France - 5 times
> Tour d'Italie - 5 times
> Tour de Suisse- 1 time
> Tour d'Espagne- 1 time
> Tour de Belgique - 2 times
> Criterium du Dauphine - 1 time
> G.P. du Fourmies - 1 time
> G.P. du Midi Libre - 1 time
> Paris-Nice - 3 times
> Tour de Morbihan - 1 time
> Tour Mediterraneen - 1 time
> Semaine Catalane - 2 times
> Tour de Catalogne - 1 time
> Tour du Levant - 1 time
> Tour de Sardaigne - 4 times
> Tour de Romandie - 1 time
> Paris-Luxembourg - 1 time
> Championnat de Flandres - 1 time
> Circuit de la vallee de la Lys- 1 time
> Fleche Brabanconne - 1 time
> G.P. Cerami- Wasmuel- 1 time
> Prix de Cloture-Putte Kapellen- 1 time
> G.P. Union Dortmund - 2 times
> Copa Agostini - 1 time
> Trofeo Laigueglia - 2 times
> G.P. des Nations - 1 time
> G.P. Lugano - 1 time
> Trophee Baracchi - 3 times
> Montjuich - 6 times
> A travers Lausanne - 4 times
> Criterium des As - 3 times
> Chateaulin - 3 times
>
> And those are only the principal victories; he won over 300 races.
>
> Andre



OK................NO ONE is saying that Merckx was not the Best rider
ever. There are a few idiots who are saying that Armstrong was a
better rider. But wether you like him or not....Armstong is still the
BEST rider EVER in the TDF.

And there is only one way to tell which of them really is the
best....Make them both 30years old and compete against each other.

Merckx lived in a different time when more importance was place on the
individual races. Today, the TDF is THE race. To millions of people it
is the only race.
 
sheila wrote:
>
> OK................NO ONE is saying that Merckx was not the Best rider
> ever. There are a few idiots who are saying that Armstrong was a
> better rider. But wether you like him or not....Armstong is still the
> BEST rider EVER in the TDF.
>
> And there is only one way to tell which of them really is the
> best....Make them both 30years old and compete against each other.
>

Great! If we start now we'll know by 2035!
 
"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<2ml2gfFo4hh4U1@



berlin.de>...
> sheila wrote:
> >
> > OK................NO ONE is saying that Merckx was not the Best rider
> > ever. There are a few idiots who are saying that Armstrong was a
> > better rider. But wether you like him or not....Armstong is still the
> > BEST rider EVER in the TDF.
> >
> > And there is only one way to tell which of them really is the
> > best....Make them both 30years old and compete against each other.
> >

> Great! If we start now we'll know by 2035!



Did anyone notice that the tour no longer is the longest bike rice in
the world as it used to be when Merckx and the other oldtimers were
racing? Merckx had to compete in 3000 mile tours while this years
tour was only 2060 miles and most of Lances tours were around 2200
miles. If I am not mistaken the tour is now shorter than the giro. I
wonder if this has something to do with the difficulty, after all, 175
mile stages take a lot more out of you than 115 mile stages. Also
Lance has always enjoyed a clear advantage in the tour as he can skip
all other races and ride and study the stages thoroughly while all the
other racers are denied this advantage because their sponsors require
them to compete in many races and they have no time to devote the
months of planning and riding all the stages before the race begins.
As Lance says,"my job is to win the Tour de France" others might say
my job is to compete in bicycle races for my sponsor.

Al
 
"Alan Lowich" <alan.lowich@@posting.google.com...
> "Kyle Legate" <legatek@:<2ml2gfFo4hh4U1@
>
> > > And there is only one way to tell which of them really is the
> > > best....Make them both 30years old and compete against each other.
> > >

> > Great! If we start now we'll know by 2035!

>
> Did anyone notice that the tour no longer is the longest bike rice in
> the world as it used to be when Merckx and the other oldtimers were
> racing? Merckx had to compete in 3000 mile tours while this years
> tour was only 2060 miles and most of Lances tours were around 2200
> miles. If I am not mistaken the tour is now shorter than the giro. I


Check this out:
GIRO 2004 -- Cunego in 88.7 hours
TOUR 2004 -- Armstrong in 83.4 hours
VUELTA 2003 -- Heras in 69.5 hours

But -- was the Giro much slower than the Tour?
Only experts have that answer.

> wonder if this has something to do with the difficulty, after all, 175
> mile stages take a lot more out of you than 115 mile stages. Also


And some people wonder why riders used to do so many drugs?

> Lance has always enjoyed a clear advantage in the tour as he can skip
> all other races and ride and study the stages thoroughly while all the
> other racers are denied this advantage because their sponsors require
> them to compete in many races and they have no time to devote the
> months of planning and riding all the stages before the race begins.
> As Lance says,"my job is to win the Tour de France" others might say
> my job is to compete in bicycle races for my sponsor.
 
Kenny <[email protected]> wrote:

> Don't take it literally. It's more the expression of the fact that
> cycling is more than just 3 weeks in july.


> Btw, besides the fact that i have to watch the superbowl at 2 AM, it
> is the most boring sport i've ever seen. I have no idea what you guys
> find so interesting about it. The game is always interupted after
> like 3 seconds. Then it's always waiting and seeing guys with giant
> headsets getting nervous... I rather like english rugby which is much
> more vivid to see. And why the hell is it called FOOTball if the game
> mainly consists of throwing the ball and running with the ball. I
> don't mean this denigrating, i just don't get it (same thing about
> baseball).


You're asking a bunch of skinny little bike racers what's
so great about football? Wrong audience.

The Super Bowl is a country-wide cultural event. Some people
get together and watch it even if they don't really care about
football - often there will be a few people who care and the
rest are there for the conversation, beer and snacks. It used
to be you could watch it for the special commercials, but those
have gotten almost as lame as the game (Actually there have been
a couple of Super Bowls that were tense games lately). As the
cultural dominance has grown, the number of TV commercial
stoppages and timeouts seems to have as well, so the game is
now unbearably long.

But, though on logical grounds I think televised football is boring,
slow and violent, I grew up in a football-mad part of the country
(Western PA) so I watch it anyway. Maybe that sheds some light on it.
Somewhere, there's probably a Belgian that has some logical rationale
for not liking bike racing, but gets excited about the Ronde anyway.
Does that analogy help?
 
Alan Lowich wrote:
>
> Did anyone notice that the tour no longer is the longest bike rice in
> the world as it used to be when Merckx and the other oldtimers were
> racing? Merckx had to compete in 3000 mile tours while this years
> tour was only 2060 miles and most of Lances tours were around 2200
> miles.


Races were shortened in an agreement between the organizers, the UCI, and
the cyclists. If you look in the UCI rulebook, you'll see the length
limitations. It appears that one side effect may be higher average speeds.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf.png
 
[email protected] (sheila) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> OK................NO ONE is saying that Merckx was not the Best rider
> ever. There are a few idiots who are saying that Armstrong was a
> better rider. But wether you like him or not....Armstong is still the
> BEST rider EVER in the TDF.
>
> And there is only one way to tell which of them really is the
> best....Make them both 30years old and compete against each other.
>
> Merckx lived in a different time when more importance was place on the
> individual races. Today, the TDF is THE race. To millions of people it
> is the only race.


How can Lance ever be the best TDF rider???!!

Merckx won 34 stages, wore the yellow jersey for 96 days, did solos of
> 100km, won KoM jersey twice, won the green jersey 3 times, won bunch

sprints, TT's, mountainstages, won the TDF 5 times and ended 2nd 1
time, raced against other greats like Gimondi & Zoetemelk, won 5 times
out of 7 participations, did not have the same medical and technical
support as LA, was already competitive since january...

Maybe the TDF is THE race for you and millions of other people across
the ocean. I didn't expect somthing else, it's not your fault your
isolated from the real world. The TDF has much more exposure than
30years ago, true, but that doesn't mean the race itself is harder.
30 years ago, the Tour was also above other races, but people then
knew cycling was just more than that.

And if you even can't tell me 5 past Giro and 5 past Vuelta winners
without looking it up, please don't tell me how the perception of
cycling and the Tour should be. You don't know a thing about it. How
can you ever give the Tour a right place within cycling if you haven't
even watched other Eurpean races?? You just jump on the same train as
a lot of (non-european) media who are overexposing the whole event and
shout: "this is the biggest race!" without knowing what happens before
and after the tour. Your cycling knowledge is limited by three weeks
in july and that . I feel sorry for you cause if you really like
cycling, you're missing so many other great things about it.

Kenny
 
"Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (sheila) wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > OK................NO ONE is saying that Merckx was not the Best rider
> > ever. There are a few idiots who are saying that Armstrong was a
> > better rider. But wether you like him or not....Armstong is still the
> > BEST rider EVER in the TDF.
> >
> > And there is only one way to tell which of them really is the
> > best....Make them both 30years old and compete against each other.
> >
> > Merckx lived in a different time when more importance was place on the
> > individual races. Today, the TDF is THE race. To millions of people it
> > is the only race.

>
> How can Lance ever be the best TDF rider???!!


Yes, exactly, what's fair is fair. You can't just all of a sudden throw away
all the fine details within the TDF where other greats have won in heroic
fashion just because Lance has won 6. 6 does not erase the facts you have
stated here and elsewhere. Lance won 5 stages this year which is great but
compared to Merckx and others who won 34 stages as you say, you have to look
at how they won them. All that stuff add up and much be taken into
consideration as you say, concerning how many stages won, KOM, etc. I think
a 4th grader should be able to see this, but several here, newbies I think
need some history lessons. It's amazing how quick newbies are to judge
without doing any research and not having any respect for the tour greats.
>
> Merckx won 34 stages, wore the yellow jersey for 96 days, did solos of
> > 100km, won KoM jersey twice, won the green jersey 3 times, won bunch

> sprints, TT's, mountainstages, won the TDF 5 times and ended 2nd 1
> time, raced against other greats like Gimondi & Zoetemelk, won 5 times
> out of 7 participations, did not have the same medical and technical
> support as LA, was already competitive since january...
>
> Maybe the TDF is THE race for you and millions of other people across
> the ocean. I didn't expect somthing else, it's not your fault your
> isolated from the real world. The TDF has much more exposure than
> 30years ago, true, but that doesn't mean the race itself is harder.
> 30 years ago, the Tour was also above other races, but people then
> knew cycling was just more than that.
>
> And if you even can't tell me 5 past Giro and 5 past Vuelta winners
> without looking it up, please don't tell me how the perception of
> cycling and the Tour should be. You don't know a thing about it. How
> can you ever give the Tour a right place within cycling if you haven't
> even watched other Eurpean races?? You just jump on the same train as
> a lot of (non-european) media who are overexposing the whole event and
> shout: "this is the biggest race!" without knowing what happens before
> and after the tour. Your cycling knowledge is limited by three weeks
> in july and that . I feel sorry for you cause if you really like
> cycling, you're missing so many other great things about it.
>
> Kenny