frame painting question

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Joshua Goldberg, Sep 18, 2003.

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  1. I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I have to remove the rust, the
    Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained steel.

    I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it powder coated in 4 months anyway.

    Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer coat needed?

    I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the frame with a brass brush and
    add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.

    I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
     
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  2. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I have to remove the rust, the
    > Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained steel.
    >
    > I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it powder coated in 4
    > months anyway.
    >
    > Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer coat needed?
    >
    > I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the frame with a brass brush
    > and add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.
    >
    > I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
    >
    >
    >

    There are some cool colors of spray paint that look similar to anodized metal. These allegedly don't
    require primer if applied on clean metal. (Duplicolor~ MetalCast)Its also not expensive. When you
    are finished with the wire brush, get some latex gloves and wear them while you handle the frame.
    Next get some lacquer thinner and a rag and wipe the entire frame with the stuff. Then you can hang
    the frame up by a couple of metal coathangers and spray it. With paint. Josh, please don't breathe
    or drink any of the stuff. We don' want your condition to worsen.(^;

    Rorschandt

    --

    May all beings be happy. May they be joyous and live in safety. All living beings, whether weak or
    strong, in high or middle or low realms of existence, small or great, visible or invisible, near or
    far, born or to be born, Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state; Let none by
    anger or hatred wish harm to another. Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches over and
    protects her only child, so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,
     
  3. I was going to ask you 1st, but I cleared my address book to prevent any virus attacks leaking out
    and I forgot to record your email on paper....and thanks for replying.

    Gotta get the trikes ready for winter driving really soon and the paint will help....I tried a thing
    called Krylon Spray Enamel on a delta and it peels off using your finger nail. Was thinking Tremclad
    1st for the rust protector and then sumethin purdy on top.
    ********************

    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I have to remove the rust,
    > > the Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained steel.
    > >
    > > I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it powder coated in 4 months
    > > anyway.
    > >
    > > Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer coat needed?
    > >
    > > I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the frame with a brass brush
    > > and add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.
    > >
    > > I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > There are some cool colors of spray paint that look similar to anodized metal. These allegedly
    > don't require primer if applied on clean metal. (Duplicolor~ MetalCast)Its also not expensive.
    > When you are finished with the wire brush, get some latex gloves and wear them while you handle
    > the frame. Next get some lacquer thinner and a rag and wipe the entire frame with the stuff. Then
    > you can hang the frame up by a couple of metal coathangers and spray it. With paint. Josh, please
    > don't breathe or drink any of the stuff. We don' want your condition to worsen.(^;
    >
    > Rorschandt
    >
    > --
    >
    > May all beings be happy. May they be joyous and live in safety. All living beings, whether weak or
    > strong, in high or middle or low realms of existence, small or great, visible or invisible, near
    > or far, born or to be born, Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state; Let
    > none by anger or hatred wish harm to another. Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches
    > over and protects her only child, so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,
     
  4. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I have
    to
    > remove the rust, the Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained steel.
    >
    > I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it powder coated in 4
    > months anyway.
    >
    > Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer coat needed?
    >
    > I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the
    frame
    > with a brass brush and add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.
    >
    > I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
    >

    Who was it that said Rust Never Dies? Classic car buffs tell me the best way to keep rust from
    returning is either sandblasting or immersion into a vat of some kind of rust hating acid.
    Specifically they tell me sanding doesn't cut it.

    Frankly the thought of having a frame with rust and a determined Joshua Goldberg with an angle
    grinder in the same room gives me a wee bit of concern.

    Here's my suggestion. Since you must wait four months to powder coat you should sand the frame,
    prime & paint with your spray cans, ride it until you are ready to powder coat, and then have the
    frame sandblasted or dipped immediately before powder coating. And don't forget to spray rust
    preventative inside the frame after powder coating. This, I believe, would give you a satisfactory
    long term result.

    skip
     
  5. yeah the place I will use dips the bike frame into a vat of something nasy, blow dries the frame and
    does the sandblasting. Frames get 5 powder coats and a clear coat. In USD about $120.00 total, which
    I have been told is a really good price..
    *************************
    "skip" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I
    have
    > to
    > > remove the rust, the Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained
    steel.
    > >
    > > I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it powder coated in 4 months
    > > anyway.
    > >
    > > Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer
    coat
    > > needed?
    > >
    > > I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the
    > frame
    > > with a brass brush and add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.
    > >
    > > I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
    > >
    >
    > Who was it that said Rust Never Dies? Classic car buffs tell me the best way to keep rust from
    > returning is either sandblasting or immersion into a vat of some kind of rust hating acid.
    > Specifically they tell me sanding doesn't cut it.
    >
    > Frankly the thought of having a frame with rust and a determined Joshua Goldberg with an angle
    > grinder in the same room gives me a wee bit of concern.
    >
    > Here's my suggestion. Since you must wait four months to powder coat you should sand the frame,
    > prime & paint with your spray cans, ride it until
    you
    > are ready to powder coat, and then have the frame sandblasted or dipped immediately before powder
    > coating. And don't forget to spray rust preventative inside the frame after powder coating. This,
    > I believe,
    would
    > give you a satisfactory long term result.
    >
    > skip
     
  6. Drjoel

    Drjoel Guest

    A while back a friend took his frame to a local body shop, and picked a color they had left over in
    stock. They sprayed and baked the frame, looks real great in metallic red. Total cost $75.00.

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > yeah the place I will use dips the bike frame into a vat of something
    nasy,
    > blow dries the frame and does the sandblasting. Frames get 5 powder coats and a clear coat. In USD
    > about $120.00 total, which I have been told is a really good price..
    > *************************
    > "skip" <[email protected]m> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I
    > have
    > > to
    > > > remove the rust, the Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained
    > steel.
    > > >
    > > > I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it
    powder
    > > > coated in 4 months anyway.
    > > >
    > > > Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer
    > coat
    > > > needed?
    > > >
    > > > I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the
    > > frame
    > > > with a brass brush and add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.
    > > >
    > > > I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
    > > >
    > >
    > > Who was it that said Rust Never Dies? Classic car buffs tell me the
    best
    > > way to keep rust from returning is either sandblasting or immersion into
    a
    > > vat of some kind of rust hating acid. Specifically they tell me sanding doesn't cut it.
    > >
    > > Frankly the thought of having a frame with rust and a determined Joshua Goldberg with an angle
    > > grinder in the same room gives me a wee bit of concern.
    > >
    > > Here's my suggestion. Since you must wait four months to powder coat
    you
    > > should sand the frame, prime & paint with your spray cans, ride it until
    > you
    > > are ready to powder coat, and then have the frame sandblasted or dipped immediately before
    > > powder coating. And don't forget to spray rust preventative inside the frame after powder
    > > coating. This, I believe,
    > would
    > > give you a satisfactory long term result.
    > >
    > > skip
    > >
    >
     
  7. Don

    Don Guest

    Joshua, That is an unbelievable price. 5 coats plus clear? In Sacramento, CA that would be a great
    price for blasting and a single coat of a stock booring industrial color (no clear coat). Where do
    you live to get such great prices and have so much rust to worry about?

    Skip, It was Neil Young and the phrase was "Rust Never Sleeps".

    Don, (aging rocker).

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > yeah the place I will use dips the bike frame into a vat of something nasy, blow dries the frame
    > and does the sandblasting. Frames get 5 powder coats and a clear coat. In USD about $120.00 total,
    > which I have been told is a really good price..
     
  8. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    rorschandt wrote:
    > ... May all beings be happy. May they be joyous and live in safety. All living beings, whether
    > weak or strong, in high or middle or low realms of existence, small or great, visible or
    > invisible, near or far, born or to be born, Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in
    > any state; Let none by anger or hatred wish harm to another. Even as a mother at the risk of her
    > life watches over and protects her only child, so with a boundless mind should one cherish all
    > living things,

    Even Fabrizio? ;)

    Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers
     
  9. Sticker Jim

    Sticker Jim Guest

    I paint aircraft for a living, and I would do the following, if you can:

    1. Wipe the whole frame down FIRST with Naphtha. I use this because it has enough solvent power to
    wipe off just about all contaminants and it is weak enough that it can't cause
    contamination/fish-eye problems later. For things like bug guts or tar, use a more powerful
    solvent, but then go back and re-wipe with naphtha.
    2. Use as fine of a steel wire wheel instead of the brass one. The steel will lightly scuff the
    frame tubes and greatly improve paint adhesion and still not be so hard on the steel that the
    scuff marks will show through the paint. I use a small wire wheel with a ΒΌ" shaft and put it in
    my electric drill. If you are planning to powder coat later, you DEFINITELY won't see the
    scratch marks later.
    3. As for primer, if I'm going to use primer on steel, I use an epoxy (a base component and a
    catalyst/hardner component). Reason being, the epoxy primer is tougher and far more durable than
    any enamel or lacquer primer, especially red oxide (which I never use). The only problem with 2
    part coatings, is you can't use a store-bought spray can. I have some small glass bottles that
    are screwed into a small aerosol container so you can custom make your own "spray cans" - but
    not sure of the name. Will get it tomorrow and post the name.

    If simple corrosion protection is the primary concern, don't even worry about primer. I am not a big
    fan of Krylon products, and for a straight store-bought spray paint, I have found the Tremclad brand
    to be every bit as durable and cheaper than some of the "dedicated" brands like Krylon. A light tack
    coat, then a couple good thick wet coats and you will have more than enough protection til you
    powder coat them.

    After shooting the paint job on my first two trikes, I took the last two I built to powder coat
    places and let them coat my frames in plastic. Very happy with the jobs and the powder coat is
    multitudes tougher than even the multiple coats of epoxy I put on them myself. The Mk I and
    Battleship were painted by me. The Mk III and IV were powder coated.

    Pics are here: http://jkcc.com/speednviolence/bikes/

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am going to paint a frame in order to cut down on the # of times I have
    to
    > remove the rust, the Acid Rain in my area is really bad on unpained steel.
    >
    > I don't really care about a hi-quality paint job now, I'll get it powder coated in 4
    > months anyway.
    >
    > Question = Should I use Spray or Brush on enamel and IS a base primer coat needed?
    >
    > I will be removing the rust and then running an Angle Grinder over the
    frame
    > with a brass brush and add paint asap so I am not painting over rust.
    >
    > I am leaning more to cans of spray enamel...yes?
     
  10. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Sticker Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > After shooting the paint job on my first two trikes, I took the last two I built to powder coat
    > places and let them coat my frames in plastic. Very happy with the jobs and the powder coat is
    > multitudes tougher than even the multiple coats of epoxy I put on them myself. The Mk I and
    > Battleship were painted by me. The Mk III and IV were powder coated.
    >
    > Pics are here: http://jkcc.com/speednviolence/bikes/

    What great craftsmanship! Really. I've built a few trikes and know how it sometimes seems that all
    the planning breaks down to sticking things on because "Oops, I mis-measured" or "Hmmm, forgot about
    THAT thing!" I wish I had a locl powder coater that did frames that cheap. Here it is about U$130 -
    200, with a very limited color choice.

    Happy trails, rorschandt http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/174801833
     
  11. Sticker Jim

    Sticker Jim Guest

    > > After shooting the paint job on my first two trikes, I took the last two I built to powder coat
    > > places and let them coat my frames in plastic. Very happy with the jobs and the powder coat is
    > > multitudes tougher than even the multiple coats of epoxy I put on them myself. The Mk I and
    > > Battleship were painted by me. The Mk III and IV were powder coated.
    > >
    > > Pics are here: http://jkcc.com/speednviolence/bikes/
    >
    > What great craftsmanship! Really. I've built a few trikes and know how it sometimes seems that all
    > the planning breaks down to sticking things on because "Oops, I mis-measured" or "Hmmm, forgot
    > about THAT thing!" I wish I had a locl powder coater that did frames that cheap. Here it is about
    > U$130 - 200, with a very limited color choice.
    >
    > Happy trails, rorschandt http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/174801833

    Did you build the Tulpa? It looks pretty cool. I was toying with the idea of A arm full suspension
    on a trike too, but it seemed a little over my head at the present. I like the front end, and I like
    the seat too. Looks pretty swanky.

    There are 2 powder coat shops I know of. Both do a basic single coat job on a trike for $60 Cdn. The
    dual coat candy apple purple was $80 Cdn. The one powder coat place does big production runs but
    they will hang you bike parts up with the rest of the production run, and only charge $60 for it.
    Maybe down where you are, there might be a shop that does production runs too and they might consent
    to hanging your work up in the runs like the guys up here too. The only drawback, is you have to
    take the colour they are shooting at the time. No big deal for me - especially for only $60. :)
     
  12. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Sticker Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:p[email protected]:

    >> > After shooting the paint job on my first two trikes, I took the last two I built to powder coat
    >> > places and let them coat my frames in plastic. Very happy with the jobs and the powder coat is
    >> > multitudes tougher than even the multiple coats of epoxy I put on them myself. The Mk I and
    >> > Battleship were painted by me. The Mk III and IV were powder coated.
    >> >
    >> > Pics are here: http://jkcc.com/speednviolence/bikes/
    >>
    >> What great craftsmanship! Really. I've built a few trikes and know how it sometimes seems that
    >> all the planning breaks down to sticking things on because "Oops, I mis-measured" or "Hmmm,
    >> forgot about THAT thing!" I wish I had a locl powder coater that did frames that cheap. Here it
    >> is about U$130 - 200, with a very limited color choice.
    >>
    >> Happy trails, rorschandt http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/174801833
    >
    > Did you build the Tulpa? It looks pretty cool. I was toying with the idea of A arm full suspension
    > on a trike too, but it seemed a little over my head at the present. I like the front end, and I
    > like the seat too. Looks pretty swanky.

    Thanks. Yes, I did build it. That was before I discovered just how thin of tubing was strong enough.
    I've a tendency to overbuild things. The original rod/lever steering worked well with the
    suspension, the newer more conventional handlebar style causes problems with suspension and
    alignment. I am considering a re-design and rebuild over the winter. It will also help prevent me
    from going insane during "The Season of Death and Gloom".

    As for the powder coat "color of the day" technique, it does save money. I really prefer brighter
    colors for asthetic and safety reasons. Most of the powder coaters here are using dingy colors, gray
    and black; don't want the bike to blend in with the pavement. Haven't checked around in a while,
    I'll do that.

    happy trails, rorschandt

    --

    May all beings be happy. May they be joyous and live in safety. All living beings, whether weak or
    strong, in high or middle or low realms of existence, small or great, visible or invisible, near or
    far, born or to be born, Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state; Let none by
    anger or hatred wish harm to another. Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches over and
    protects her only child, so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,
     
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