Freehub notches

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Andrew Martin, May 2, 2003.

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  1. I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels just
    don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more circular
    when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?

    Thanks - a
     
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  2. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Andrew Martin writes:

    > I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    > just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    > circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?

    What do you mean by "notching"? Do you mean the tooth faces become hooks? In that case, check your
    chain wear. A worn chain bears mainly on the last tooth before disengagement and causes wear pockets
    higher on the tooth, pockets that a new chain cannot engage because they are at the larger pitch of
    the worn chain.

    Your choice of pedaling, standing, sitting, only on the downstroke or otherwise, has no effect on
    sprocket wear although climbing hills does because the chain force is greater.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Andrew Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    > just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    > circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?

    If you mean cog wear that's not a function of riding style. It's a function of chain cleanliness and
    miles. No "user error" is involved here and riding one way or another would have no effect.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  4. "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Andrew Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    > > just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    > > circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?
    >
    > If you mean cog wear that's not a function of riding style. It's a function of chain cleanliness
    > and miles. No "user error" is involved here and riding one way or another would have no effect.

    Ok - I'm describing this wrong. I'm not talking about wear on the cogs. What I'm talking about is
    the cassette freehub (I thought that was the term) body on the rear hub. The cassette cluster mounts
    onto the freehub just fine, but at some of the cogs, it seems that I am notching the freehub body on
    the freehub/cog interface.

    Thanks - a
     
  5. In article <[email protected]>, Andrew Martin
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> "Andrew Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    >> > just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    >> > circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?
    >>
    >> If you mean cog wear that's not a function of riding style. It's a function of chain cleanliness
    >> and miles. No "user error" is involved here and riding one way or another would have no effect.
    >
    >Ok - I'm describing this wrong. I'm not talking about wear on the cogs. What I'm talking about is
    >the cassette freehub (I thought that was the term) body on the rear hub. The cassette cluster
    >mounts onto the freehub just fine, but at some of the cogs, it seems that I am notching the freehub
    >body on the freehub/cog interface.

    Yes, this happens with aluminum freehub bodies. It helps if the cassette has as many cogs bolted
    together on carriers as possible, so they don't individually cut into the splines when under drive.

    Other freehub bodies are made of steel and don't do that. They are also heavier.
     
  6. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Andrew Martin writes:

    > Ok - I'm describing this wrong. I'm not talking about wear on the cogs. What I'm talking about is
    > the cassette freehub (I thought that was the term) body on the rear hub. The cassette cluster
    > mounts onto the freehub just fine, but at some of the cogs, it seems that I am notching the
    > freehub body on the freehub/cog interface.

    Ah yes, of course. In the pursuit of saving a gram or two at great expense, we have gotten
    components that don't work. This reminds me of the aluminum sprockets Campagnolo offered, also at
    great expense. Hey! If you gotta have it, it's worth the trouble and expense.

    A steel bodied cassette hub solves that problem... or you could stop riding hills and soft pedal.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  7. [email protected] wrote:
    > Ah yes, of course. In the pursuit of saving a gram or two at great expense, we have gotten
    > components that don't work. This reminds me of the aluminum sprockets Campagnolo offered, also at

    There are some one-piece machined 9x cassettes that look really nice and impressive. Make good
    paperweights, somewhat expensive though...

    --
    MfG/Best regards helmut springer
     
  8. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Andrew Martin wrote:
    > I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    > just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    > circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?
    >

    I had a similar problem with my Chris Kings. I started making really sure that I torqued the
    retaining ring to the spec and it hasn't done it since.

    David
     
  9. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    David Kunz writes:

    >> I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    >> just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    >> circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?

    > I had a similar problem with my Chris Kings. I started making really sure that I torqued the
    > retaining ring to the spec and it hasn't done it since.

    Tightening a retaining ring does not reduce stress between the inside splines of sprockets and the
    sprocket carrier. I think there is no cause and effect link in this case. Unless the sprockets were
    wobbling previously, the lock ring does not alter contact pressure.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  10. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > David Kunz writes:
    >
    >
    >>>I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    >>>just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    >>>circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?
    >
    >
    >>I had a similar problem with my Chris Kings. I started making really sure that I torqued the
    >>retaining ring to the spec and it hasn't done it since.
    >
    >
    > Tightening a retaining ring does not reduce stress between the inside splines of sprockets and the
    > sprocket carrier. I think there is no cause and effect link in this case. Unless the sprockets
    > were wobbling previously, the lock ring does not alter contact pressure.

    The lock ring compresses the gears together making them share the shearing load. In my case, the 3
    small gears were cutting into the free hub splines -- they are individual. With the lock ring
    tighter, all of the gears are compressed harder against each other and the spider that carries the
    larger gears. This makes for a setup that is more of a single carrier this spreads the load over a
    wide area vs. individual narrow elements that focus the pedal pressure on a small area if just the
    one gear with the chain on it alone carries all of the force.

    David
     
  11. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    David Kunz writes:

    >>> I had a similar problem with my Chris Kings. I started making really sure that I torqued the
    >>> retaining ring to the spec and it hasn't done it since.

    >> Tightening a retaining ring does not reduce stress between the inside splines of sprockets and
    >> the sprocket carrier. I think there is no cause and effect link in this case. Unless the
    >> sprockets were wobbling previously, the lock ring does not alter contact pressure.

    > The lock ring compresses the gears together making them share the shearing load. In my case, the 3
    > small gears were cutting into the free hub splines -- they are individual. With the lock ring
    > tighter, all of the gears are compressed harder against each other and the spider that carries the
    > larger gears. This makes for a setup that is more of a single carrier this spreads the load over a
    > wide area vs. individual narrow elements that focus the pedal pressure on a small area if just the
    > one gear with the chain on it alone carries all of the force.

    This has no effect on spline contact pressure. Imagine removing the spline teeth from the inside of
    one sprocket and relying on friction to keep it from rotating. It may be able to drive the bicycle
    under light load on level ground but ultimately, under higher torque the sprocket will rotate
    independent of its neighbors. The same is true with an in tact sprocket only that through clearance
    the sprocket will also displace radially on the sprocket carrier from chain pull so that basically
    one spline flank is loaded. That is what causes the indentations.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  12. Andy M-S

    Andy M-S Guest

    [email protected] (Andrew Martin) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Andrew Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I've pretty much always had problems with notching on my 13, 14, 15 cogs. Some people's wheels
    > > > just don't seem to do this. Is there anything I can do to reduce this (other than pedal more
    > > > circular when I'm sprinting out of the saddle)?
    > >
    > > If you mean cog wear that's not a function of riding style. It's a function of chain cleanliness
    > > and miles. No "user error" is involved here and riding one way or another would have no effect.
    >
    > Ok - I'm describing this wrong. I'm not talking about wear on the cogs. What I'm talking about is
    > the cassette freehub (I thought that was the term) body on the rear hub. The cassette cluster
    > mounts onto the freehub just fine, but at some of the cogs, it seems that I am notching the
    > freehub body on the freehub/cog interface.
    >
    > Thanks - a

    It's aluminum bodies, all right. I have a set of wheels built wuth "Real" brand hubs, and the
    freehub body is aluminum, and seriously cut up. My 105 and Ultegra hubs, OTOH, never suffer from
    this problem.
     
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