freewheel hubs=bent axle? help!

[garage sale GT]

So... I like old steel bikes but unless you get Campagnolo, the freewheel style hub leaves the rear axle unsupported. They bend and the bearings wear out.

What did heavier road riders do back in the days of, say, the 1970's bike boom? Ride only on smooth, new roads?

I weigh 195lb (88kg) and try to be kind to the rear wheel but ride sidewalks sometimes. I ride 27X1-1/4's, which are 32mm wide.

The axle bends and/or the cone shows an uneven wear pattern showing the axle was flexing under load.

I buy chrome moly steel axles. I always use new cones and install nine new loose 1/4 bearing balls. I add slight preload. However, I can't seem to get more than 500 miles out of a rear axle.

Can it be that these bikes just are not capable of taking an occasional small bump without damage? Am I doing something wrong? Is there any alternative to upgrading to a freehub wheelset? And last of all:

How in the heck did people cyclocross on these rigs?????????

 

[alfeng]

I buy chrome moly steel axles. I always use new cones and install nine new loose 1/4 bearing balls. I add slight preload. However, I can't seem to get more than 500 miles out of a rear axle.

I think you have stated the cause of your problem ... you are putting too much preload on the bearings ... and, not backing off enough.

 

[garage sale GT]

Bending, though, is the mode of failure. I have ruined some wheels on my new mountain bike by running the QR's too tight. That was different, they pitted up.

On the freewheel 10 speeds, the cone shows a wear pattern that proves it had twisted in its cup, or the axle is simply bent.

It would seem that if you used more preload, you risked premature wear, but you would bolster the axle against bending by transmitting some of the bending moment through the balls to the hub shell. I have never tested my theory by running bearings too tight to freely twirl the axle between my fingers.

 

[geoffs]

So... I like old steel bikes but unless you get Campagnolo, the freewheel style hub leaves the rear axle unsupported. They bend and the bearings wear out.

What did heavier road riders do back in the days of, say, the 1970's bike boom? Ride only on smooth, new roads?

I weigh 195lb (88kg) and try to be kind to the rear wheel but ride sidewalks sometimes. I ride 27X1-1/4's, which are 32mm wide.

The axle bends and/or the cone shows an uneven wear pattern showing the axle was flexing under load.

I buy chrome moly steel axles. I always use new cones and install nine new loose 1/4 bearing balls. I add slight preload. However, I can't seem to get more than 500 miles out of a rear axle.

Can it be that these bikes just are not capable of taking an occasional small bump without damage? Am I doing something wrong? Is there any alternative to upgrading to a freehub wheelset? And last of all:

How in the heck did people cyclocross on these rigs?????????

There is a reason hub design changed so that the cassette body helps support the axle.
I have lost count of the number of freewheel axles I have bent and broken. I used to keep a few Dura-ace ones at home.
On tandems this problem is even worse.
You only weigh 88kgs. Partner and I have weighed up to 160kg. We even bent axles on our custom made Swallow rear hub. We would also tear the pawls on the freewheels to peices as well as rip the cogs off the freewheel. Not good when you are trying to sprint!
Since we have been using cassette hubs, no problems.
We have Chris King, Hope, Hugi, Campag, Dura-ace and a few XT hubs on various bikes.
Do yourself a favour and use a cassette hub.
Even better one with sealed bearings.

Cheers

Geoff

 

[lyotard]

the hot set-up was to get a stainless axle to replace the cro-mo or carbon steel,
these typically came in mtb 135 size so they needed to be cut to length,
much more durable for real world road use.

So... I like old steel bikes but unless you get Campagnolo, the freewheel style hub leaves the rear axle unsupported. They bend and the bearings wear out.

 

[531Aussie]

There is a reason hub design changed so that the cassette body helps support the axle

yeah, exactamundo.

Freewheels were ok with 5 or 6 speed, but when we went to 7sp, axles really started bending and breaking. I busted HEAPS of 7sp axles; even Campags. Then, when they went to 8sp....FORGEDABOUDIT!! They pretty much had to change the design

What did heavier road riders do back in the days of, say, the 1970's bike boom? Ride only on smooth, new roads

I'm pretty sure in the,70s they only had 5 or 6 speed (I'll have to check my time line), so the narrower load presented much less of a problem.

This 1973 Shimano catalogue shows only 5 and 6 speed clusters
http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1973/pages/da6.html
http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1973/

And this 1982 catalogue shows 7 speed only available in Duar-Ace, but it's a cassette!!
http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/

 

[geoffs]

the hot set-up was to get a stainless axle to replace the cro-mo or carbon steel,
these typically came in mtb 135 size so they needed to be cut to length,
much more durable for real world road use.

Depends what load you are putting on it.
I was using custom made axles from high carbon tool steel.

It helped.........a bit but they still bent

Cheers

Geoff

 

[Retro Grouch]

What did heavier road riders do back in the days of, say, the 1970's bike boom? Ride only on smooth, new roads?

I think that riders back then were a more careful about backing off and unweighting when they did things like crossing railroad tracks than what I typically see today.

 

[garage sale GT]

Thanks for all the help.

Couldn't help but wonder if I was doing something wrong, because it would have been so simple for the makers to redesign their hubs to take a thicker axle.

BTW, I think campy had an extra bearing in there and the hub was supported closer to the dropout. I am sure they're the best axles but they're not magic.

So, unless someone thinks road freehubs are weak, that's what I'm gonna get.

P. S. I am referring to 5 & 6 speed road machines, 20-30 years old.

 

[John M]

Thanks for all the help.

Couldn't help but wonder if I was doing something wrong, because it would have been so simple for the makers to redesign their hubs to take a thicker axle.

BTW, I think campy had an extra bearing in there and the hub was supported closer to the dropout. I am sure they're the best axles but they're not magic.

So, unless someone thinks road freehubs are weak, that's what I'm gonna get.

P. S. I am referring to 5 & 6 speed road machines, 20-30 years old.

I only weigh about 150 but broke several rear axles on freewheel hubs (Campy included) when I used to race and train on the potholed roads of Chicago back in the 80s. I agree with the idea of going with a cassette hub.

If weight and the need for quick release are not an issue, you could go with solid steel axles, but of course you would have to carry the appropriate wrenches to remove them en route.