French Court Throws out Simeoni v. Lance

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by bobke, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. bobke

    bobke New Member

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    Hardy har har.
    Not only is Simeoni a dumass, but apparently his lawyers were too.

    Velonews:

    This report filed January 16, 2006
    A criminal court in Paris has refused to hear a defamation actions brought by Italian cyclist Filippo Simeoni against Lance Armstrong.

    Judicial officials said Monday the statute of limitations had expired in the case against the seven-time Tour de France winner. The court said Simeoni's lawyers misinterpreted French law.

    Armstrong, quoted in an April 2003 report in the online edition of French daily Le Monde, contended that Simeoni had agreed to testify against doctor Michele Ferrari in exchange for a lesser penalty if the Italian rider were accused of doping by the sport's governing body.

    Ferrari received a suspended jail sentence for a year in October 2004 for sports fraud and malpractice. Ferrari once advised Armstrong but the star cyclist cut his ties with him after the doctor was convicted.

    Armstrong faces a March 7 trial in Italy on civil charges of defaming Simeoni. Armstrong is being investigated for pursuing the Italian during a stage of the 2004 Tour de France and reportedly threatening him for testifying about doping in a trial of Ferrari.
     
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  2. lwedge

    lwedge New Member

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    This would make a great novel if it weren't a true story. :D

    Seriously, 2 or 3 down and how many to go ? What else does he (LA) have in litigation ?

    Lw
     
  3. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    Well not so fast; The French court ruled the trial invalid due to the fact that Simeoni had not lodged his appeal within one year of the event occurring. In the US you have four years in Italy you have 2 years. In France you have one year.

    However the French court did not rule in favour of Armstrong they simply said that that cannot juristic on the case and they will leave it up to the
    Italian Court to hear the civil case. So Armstrong is still stuck in it and could lose a lot of money. If the Italian court finds in favour of Simeoni then the Italian police may re-open the criminal investigation against Armstrong with the new evidence and ruling. It will be a long road.


    The case centres on Armstrong stating in a French newspaper that Simeoni lied about Ferrari prescribing PED's to him in return for a lighter criminal sentencing for use of the drug. This of course is not true and Armstrong has already confirmed that Ferrari is a cheat by cutting him lose when Ferrari was prosecuted. (Although it was said he only publicly cut him lose)


     
  4. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    bobke, using your argument (re Tyler Hamilton), I am sure that Simeoni could beat you in any bike race so you are not allowed to criticise him. By doing so, you are just a whinger. Hypocricy is a bummer, hey?
     
  5. musette

    musette New Member

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    Simeoni is dumb because (1) with or without LA, Discovery Channel is still a force in the European peloton/ProTour/whatever arrangements there are, (2) everybody in the peloton knows that LA still has a lot of influence over DC and can hold grudges for a long time, and (3) everybody knows that Bruyneel is in frequent contact with LA. So, Simeoni, if he were not at the terrible team he will be at because of his own stupidity, would be shunned by any other ProTour team because they know Discovery Channel will work to prevent Simeoni from winning stages or doing anything of merit. Not only is Simeoni a bad cyclist to begin with, but anybody crazy enough to hire Simeoni would know that Simeoni would be ridden against by the entire Discovery Channel team at all races where DC is present. They also know that recruiting Simeoni would incur negative brownie points from Discovery Channel's perspective, and they don't know when they may need DC's collaboration on something.

    Simeoni has made himself unmarketable in the ProTour teams. That's why he was on a worse team in 2005, and probably will not improve his situation in 2006.

    Now Simeoni has spent money on French legal fees too :p
     
  6. bobke

    bobke New Member

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    No hypocrisy anywhere, I am merely pointing out what dirtbag Simeoni is, and stupid all around.
    Does anyone else recall his ridiculous lifting his bike over his head as he crossed the line winning a stage in the Vuelta? He did it for , what, a protest against doping AND in honor of the vicitms of 9/11. What a humanitarian.

    Lets just set the record straight. Simeoni is a confessed doper. I think we all know that prsecutors give light sentences in cooperation for testimony for a bigger fish. Which would be Ferarri.
    Does anyone here KNOW that a deal was not struck between prosecutors and Simeoni, ie that Lance was "lying."

    As for Tyler I get tired of people ridiculing him and to quote Steve Martin "talking about things they dont know about" and to remind them that he is a tremendous cyclist (Simeoni isnt wasnt and never will be) might cause them to reflect a little.
    Tyler had fantastic and consistent results over many years, many teams.
    Anyone recall Tyler's ITT in the 1998 TdF?
    Anyone care to guess where he came in?
    He beat a number of riders and doped teams.
    He beat Bobby Julich.
    He came in only behind Jan Ullrich:

    1. Jan Ullrich Germany Telekom 1:15:25
    2. Tyler Hamilton United States US Postal 1:10 behind
    3. Bobby Julich United States Cofidis 1:18 behind
    4. Laurent Jalabert France ONCE 1:24 behind
    5. Vyatcheslav Ekimov Russia US Postal 1:40 behind
    6. Abraham Olano Spain Banesto 2:13 behind

    Talent not hypocrisy.
     
  7. micron

    micron New Member

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    Musette, Bobke, please explain Simeoni's 'stupidity' to me? If by this you mean the fact that he favours speaking out publicly against the scourge of doping in the peloton as opposed to Armstrong's 'sweep it under the carpet and preserve the status quo' approach then I'll take stupidity and a cleaner peloton any day.

    Sometimes I think your blinkered hero worship of Armstrong blinds you to a proper appraisal of the facts. WBT is quite correct - the real trial will take place in Italy giving Simeoni home ground advantage and the incontrovertible fact that Armstrong defamed him. Now calling someone a liar and making a very public prat of yourself over trying to shut up someone who may have helped to expose you for a cheat - now that's what I call stupid...
     
  8. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    It's the holding of that grudge that caused Armstrong to try to intimidate Simeoni - and which has got Armstrong in to trouble.


    Irrelevant.

    Simeoni sued Armstrong - not Bruyneel.


    Anyone who is a professional cyclist cannot be a bad cyclist.

    Try to divorce youself from your emotions, musette.

    It might help you to post something worthwhile instead of making ridiculous statements.

    You very much overestimate what the peloton may think.

    Simeoni's team stuck by him during the controversy as did the likes of Bettini,
    Zabel (is that why you hate Zabel too?) during the time when Armstrong attempted to intimidate him.

    If he was unmarketable - how come his existing team renewed his contract when the controversy blew up with Armstrong?

    Fact is that time has moved on - Simeoni's now older - it's natural that his ability as a cyclist might wane since that incident happened some time back.

    Don't forget, Armstrong is being sued for libel by Simeoni in Italy too.
    Armstrong is also being investigated for trying to intimidate a witness (Simeoni).
    Both cases are still in the Italian courts.
    One is civil (libel) and the other is one, if charges are brought, will be criminal.
     
  9. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Neither Hamilton or Simeoni come to the table with clean hands.
    The fact is they're both dopers.
     
  10. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    Although one difference; One was strong enough to admit to his sins the other not. I know who I see as the stronger more honest man.

    I might also add that one knowingly took dope of his own accord the other was forced to take dope from Doctors orders.
     
  11. meandmybike

    meandmybike New Member

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    ...one was asked to carry the Olympic torch while the other...erm...kept his Olympic medal because his B sample was frozen.

    As Limerickman said, anyone who is a professional cyclist cannot be a bad cyclist. Look at the pictures of Armstrong chasing down Simeoni at the Tour: Armstrong is suffering to hold the wheel.
     
  12. bobke

    bobke New Member

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    Well, for starters if you sueing the most famous cyclist in the world, you might start by having your case in order, and going to court within the time limit. Its probably his lawyers' fault actually, and in the US it might be grounds for malpractice against the lawyers.

    Anyhoo, the whole thing boils down to this.
    Simeoni is a doper.
    As a part of his trying to rehab his public image he does big grandstanding gestures:

    lifting his bike over his hear to protest doping when he crosses the line in the Vuelta

    attacking the peloton on the neutral ride into Paris on the last day of the TdF to get revenge on Lance, endearing himself to all the riders and team managers

    sueing Lance Armstrong because Lance called him a liar

    All within his rights, but I think Lance's essential point is something like the recent Bode Miller drinking flap. If CYCLISTS continue to talk about doping, I'm against it, I hate it, its bad for the sport, Im for a clean sport etc etc then the press will cover it because it sells papers, then the press and the public gets so used to hearing about doping they associate it with doping.

    You could argue that that is where we are now in cycling where the image is so tarnished, and the sport is likely much cleaner than baseball or football. So Lance is trying to sublty point that out to Simeoni and he does not get it. That is why he is stupid.
     
  13. meandmybike

    meandmybike New Member

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  14. micron

    micron New Member

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    So, bobke, you're essentially telling me that Simeoni is stupid because he's not accepting Armstrong's desire for keeping doping stories quiet? Not toeing the Armstrong party line? After all, if the peloton and media bowed down to that diktat then Armstrong would not be embroiled in such a doping mess, and sooooo many lawsuits, would he?

    How do you expect their to be transparency - and a concomitant culture of transparency - in the peloton and the sport as a whole if nobody talks about the problem? I bet the company you work for has a whistle blowing policy - most do. Because most people accept that talking about a problem, approaching it honestly, is a way to deal with that problem.

    I'd rather the sport was seen to be cleaning up its act but presumably you, and Armstrong, would prefer it to follow the model of professional American sports - which seems to be 'anything goes so long as you keep quiet about it'.

    Oh, one last point, Simeoni walked over the line in the Vuelta to show sympathy for the victims of 9/11 - or would you rather that people shut up about that as well?
     
  15. bobke

    bobke New Member

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    Wow, such attitude. I'm just saying that I think Simeoni is the hypocrite.
    He is the confessed doper.
    Then he goes around with all the passion of a new religious convert telling everyone how doping is bad.
    I mean picture it.
    If you were a clean pro rider in the peloton, wouldnt it just make you sick that he's going around blabbing about doping etc.
    Yawn.
     
  16. micron

    micron New Member

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    Little history lesson for you:

    In the 99 Tour, Christophe Bassons wrote a series of articles from inside the peloton using the byline 'M. Propre' (Mr Clean) - and Bassons never doped, has no conviction as a doper. The articles decried 'racing at 2 speeds' and were quite explicit about the problem in the peloton. Again, to emphasise, Bassons was not a convicted doper, simply an idealistic young rider who wanted a clean sport.

    Bassons got into a breakaway. Armstrong caught him and told him to get off the race - sound familiar, bobke?

    Apparently, Armstrong wants to silence any debate about the problem of doping in the peloton. What would be his motive for doing that do you think? Interesting that Simeoni testified against his doctor and Bassons was speaking out in 99 when, as we all know, Armstrong was forced to produce a highly dodgy backdated medical certificate to cover up an embarassing test result (not the only one from 99 as we have subsequently seen). I find it very difficult to see Armstrong's motives in wanting to silence debate on this issue as being anything but self serving.
     
  17. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    Correction Simeoni is not a confessed doper like Miller. He's confession came about when detailing that team doctors (Ferrari) provided injections under the guise that they are natural and performance enhancing.

    There is a law in Italy as well as the US and the rest of the world that a Doctor is a ‘justice of the peace’ and that they have a responsibility to inform a patient (a cyclist in this case) of the drugs they are giving them and for the patient to understand what is being prescribed. That did not happen in this case and that is Simeoni complaint. He was unknowingly given EPO and when he did ask the questions he found out that he was using EPO for a very long time under a prescribed system of managed team doping.

    That is the difference.

    Lance’s beef is not with whether Simeoni used EPO or not it is with the fact that Simeoni went on the record that Ferrari prescribed him the drugs. Lance was protecting himself not the peleton.
     
  18. bobke

    bobke New Member

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    Interesting but I dont need a history lesson. Bassons rants were self serving and stupid.

    As for the genius rider Simeoni: this from dailypeloton:
    wherein he admits to doping and described his confession as a doper:

    Pippo Simeoni first drew caught the headlines when, as he was about to win stage 18 of the Vuelta Espana 2001 he decided to offer his own tribute to the victims of 9/11 by walking across the line with his bike held aloft. But as well as wanting to show his respects to the attacks' victims, the Italian also had personal demons to exorcise.

    He had become known for his revelations to a judge in 1998 - which were then published in a European edition of GQ magazine - admitting taking dope as an amateur and then following a doping programme under the guidance of Dr. Michele Ferrari. Simeoni broke the relationship off when he felt he wasn't getting the results or the attention from Ferrari that he was expecting. "

    So he broke up with Ferrari, alleges he didnt know he was getting doping products, but then implicates Ferrari as providing them.
    Either he knew and he and Ferrari were guilty or not, which is it Fillippo?

    Anyway, the whole point is that the guy is not a rocket scientist, not a first tier cyclist, and not such a likeable person who tried to win from his days as a junior by cheating.
    If his record--self confessed-- is that of cheating, doping, and lying for years, why should anyone believe him now?

    except he was trying to get off by being a stool pigeon for the Italian witch hunt, which BTW, a little history lesson is a highly political embroiled conflict between teams, coaches, trainers and feuding camps much like Italy has always been from Capulets/Montagues, Lucrezia Borgia, back to Dante's political feuds in his day. Its the nature of the country and the people but it is not a simple story from Simeoni.
    Check out a little history:
    http://www.playthegame.org/Home/Knowledge bank/Articles/Anti-doping the Fraud Behind the Stage.aspx
     
  19. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Seems that your version of history is skewed.

    Simeoni did confess to cheating as part of a plea bargain.
    The fact of the matter is that Simeoni's evidence helped in part to convict Ferrari.
    Ferrari was convicted in open court.


    The legal system - as opposed to "highly political embroiled conflict between teams, coaches, trainers and feuding camps" - deemed that Ferrari is guilty.

    If Simeoni perjured himself - which is what you're implying by saying that his words cannot be trusted - then that is a serious charge that you're making BOBKE.
    if there was any hint of perjury - he'd have been charged, non?

    Your apologies and excuses for the behaviour of Armstrong suggest that your opinion on this matter is clouded to say the least.
    Given the trail of legal actions which Armstrong has to face, I would suggest that perhaps Simeoni might well be telling the truth in this case.

    It is indeed puzzling why Armstrong would act in the way that he did with Simeoni - given that Simeoni's dispute was initially with Ferrari, not Armstrong.
     
  20. lwedge

    lwedge New Member

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    Probably not.

    One picture and a dozen interpretations..... Interesting .

    He just looks pissed-off to me.

    Lw
     
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