French newspaper L'Equipe.



Don Quijote

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Sep 22, 2004
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What's up with this newspaper claims that EPO was detected in a urine sample of Lance Armstrong back in 1999?
Why the srutiny after so long?
Can they prove this claim in a correct and scientific manner, erasing any doubts or speculations pro or con?!
I wish that the press and anyone with such potentially harmful claims would get their facts straight first, before publishing an article like that, since it definitely compromises their credibility and professional integrity.
Lance Armstrong denies such claims, and I believe him. He has a "super-human" cardio-respiratory physiology that most lay people confound for "steroids" enhanced cycling performance. Chris Carmichael vouches for this medical fact, and also has the diagnostics facts in writting. DQ:cool:
 

huhenio

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Jul 19, 2005
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If I would be the premier of France I would bitchslap the said tabloid for nitpicking and making the french look bad :mad:

For sure the majority of the french enthusiast are scratching their heads without knowing what to think right now ... who to believe?
 

shannons dad

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Jul 10, 2005
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Isn't there a forum for doping here somewhere? Anyone who writes a story without some kind of explanation is a dope themselves. I'm refering to the newspaper article of course.
 

anthonyjf

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Aug 16, 2004
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The French are just mad because they can't even win their own race.

Lance has been nothing but good to the French people. He revived the Tour, and this is how they thank him? First Normandy, then the Tour; Americans are getting tired of bailing out these ungrateful, lazy cowards.

I heard that you can get a good deal on authentic French military riffles on Ebay. They are in excellent condition: never been fired, and only dropped once.
 

huhenio

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Also you can buy the country for cheap: Just like the Luisiana purchase!!
 

anthonyjf

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huhenio said:
Also you can buy the country for cheap: Just like the Luisiana purchase!!
2 million sq km for $15 million - the French practically gave that land away. The beginning of manifest destiny!
 

jaguar75

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anthonyjf said:
2 million sq km for $15 million - the French practically gave that land away. The beginning of manifest destiny!
Like the story, the first and second WW, and the Louisiana Purchase; the French don't have a great history of greatness... :rolleyes:
 

blobloblo

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Aug 24, 2005
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Oh come on you clearly don't know anything about this story:(

fact1: l'equipe is not a tabloid, it's the main french newspaper on sports. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/DOPAGE_ARMSTRONG_2.html that's their site if someone can read french

fact2: the accusations aren't just invented by the journalists, they come from a laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. Armstrong was tested positive for epo on 6 different samples that date from 1999. The lab wanted to ameliorate their testing methods, and tested some samples for that. The results were'nt originally meant to be revealed, the newspaper had to make an enquiry. The results seem to be irrefutable, although there can't be a legal sanction.
 

huhenio

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blobloblo


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


great post .... thank you for curing my insomnia.

No one will ever know who is a liar and who is not.

All I know is for I care they can all smoke crack or have a rabbit suppositorioum for all I care.

Talent will always prevail over chemistry .... on the big picture. Small and big advantages can be taken by chem aid. But without talent is money wasted.

I personally dont care.
 

kbone

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Jul 20, 2005
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blobloblo said:
Oh come on you clearly don't know anything about this story:(

fact1: l'equipe is not a tabloid, it's the main french newspaper on sports. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/DOPAGE_ARMSTRONG_2.html that's their site if someone can read french

fact2: the accusations aren't just invented by the journalists, they come from a laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. Armstrong was tested positive for epo on 6 different samples that date from 1999. The lab wanted to ameliorate their testing methods, and tested some samples for that. The results were'nt originally meant to be revealed, the newspaper had to make an enquiry. The results seem to be irrefutable, although there can't be a legal sanction.
The accusations were not made by the lab... the lab released documented test results and L'equipe has supposedly tied these results to other medical reports of LAs with the same identifier. The lab had no idea who the samples belonged to and to infer that the lab is making the accusation is incorrect and misleading.



Additionally, to infer the results are irrefutable is also misleading as there are several scientific experts who do not agree that tests on 5 year old samples are valid.



For the record I am not saying he did or didn’t do it. I am merely pointing out that stating “facts” without accurate or complete information is tantamount to tabloid journalism – much like the journalism L’equipe practices.
 

Upstroke

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Jul 30, 2005
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huhenio said:
blobloblo


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


great post .... thank you for curing my insomnia.

No one will ever know who is a liar and who is not.

All I know is for I care they can all smoke crack or have a rabbit suppositorioum for all I care.

Talent will always prevail over chemistry .... on the big picture. Small and big advantages can be taken by chem aid. But without talent is money wasted.

I personally dont care.
Its 7 years later, how much credibility can be given to these clowns. How can anyone be sure if these samples have been tampered with.
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5818/france8.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5565/france5.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1157/france6.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7990/france2.jpg

Screw the French. They are a bunch Of Back Stabbing Chicken Sh#ts.
Saved their ass twice and the only thing we asked of them was a place to bury our dead.
 

Chance3290

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Oct 1, 2004
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blobloblo said:
Oh come on you clearly don't know anything about this story:(

fact1: l'equipe is not a tabloid, it's the main french newspaper on sports. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/DOPAGE_ARMSTRONG_2.html that's their site if someone can read french

fact2: the accusations aren't just invented by the journalists, they come from a laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. Armstrong was tested positive for epo on 6 different samples that date from 1999. The lab wanted to ameliorate their testing methods, and tested some samples for that. The results were'nt originally meant to be revealed, the newspaper had to make an enquiry. The results seem to be irrefutable, although there can't be a legal sanction.
fact3: Chatenay-Malabry could not, and in fact, by law should not have known whose sample was whose. L'equipe obtained records they shouldn't of had and did GOD only knows what to them.

fact4: JM LeBlanc is paid by the people who own L'equipe. Hmmm.

fact5: The A samples didn't seem to test positive.

Irrefutable my ass.

By the way, I'm not an Armstrong fan. I just know that this is really stupid.

Dear France, L'equipe, and JM
How many old urine samples of Bernard Hinault's did you check.
 

wineandkeyz

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Sep 30, 2003
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Your very first post on this forum, and you spout this drivel? :rolleyes:

Fact 1: L'Equipe is indeed a tabloid. Whatever its supposed status was before, it lowered itself to that level when it ran a front-page hit job spouting accusations it admits cannot be proven nor refuted.

Fact 2: The lab DID NOT make these accusations. They supposedly tested anonymous samples, and have gone on record as saying they have no way of knowing whose samples tested positive. The supposed "link" was created by the tabloid.

Here are my questions:
- Where have these supposed samples been for 7 years?
- Who has had control of them?
- Has anyone ever heard of Photoshop? Do you know how easy it is to "create" legitimate-looking documents?
- When I search the internet, why can I find many images of the front page of L'Equipe and its "editor", but none of the supposed documents that "prove" their case?

By the way, does anyone else think it's merely a coincidence that this story came out within days of Armstrong riding with President Bush? Two of France's favorite Americans?


blobloblo said:
Oh come on you clearly don't know anything about this story:(

fact1: l'equipe is not a tabloid, it's the main french newspaper on sports. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/DOPAGE_ARMSTRONG_2.html that's their site if someone can read french

fact2: the accusations aren't just invented by the journalists, they come from a laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. Armstrong was tested positive for epo on 6 different samples that date from 1999. The lab wanted to ameliorate their testing methods, and tested some samples for that. The results were'nt originally meant to be revealed, the newspaper had to make an enquiry. The results seem to be irrefutable, although there can't be a legal sanction.
 

nugsfan

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Jul 26, 2005
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There are several wholes in their story, also why did all the "B" samples need to be used up therefore ensuring no other testing could be conducted? If their where 6 samples why use all 6? Also the documents in question havent been explained. Doesnt mean he or anyone else did or did not use EPO, but considering the story they ran after he won the 7th tour "good riddance" and their negative opinions of LA certainly give reason to question their motives.
 

Chance3290

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Oct 1, 2004
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wineandkeyz said:
Your very first post on this forum, and you spout this drivel? :rolleyes:

Fact 1: L'Equipe is indeed a tabloid. Whatever its supposed status was before, it lowered itself to that level when it ran a front-page hit job spouting accusations it admits cannot be proven nor refuted.

Fact 2: The lab DID NOT make these accusations. They supposedly tested anonymous samples, and have gone on record as saying they have no way of knowing whose samples tested positive. The supposed "link" was created by the tabloid.

Here are my questions:
- Where have these supposed samples been for 7 years?
- Who has had control of them?
- Has anyone ever heard of Photoshop? Do you know how easy it is to "create" legitimate-looking documents?
- When I search the internet, why can I find many images of the front page of L'Equipe and its "editor", but none of the supposed documents that "prove" their case?

By the way, does anyone else think it's merely a coincidence that this story came out within days of Armstrong riding with President Bush? Two of France's favorite Americans?

YEAH! What he said.

ps I know they didn't have EPO test capabilities in 99, but they did in 01. It took them four years to get around to testing these samples?
They should have sent it to Las Vegas, Miami, or New York. Those CSI folks could have had the results within the hour.
 

anthonyjf

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Aug 16, 2004
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Upstroke said:
Its 7 years later, how much credibility can be given to these clowns. How can anyone be sure if these samples have been tampered with.
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5818/france8.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5565/france5.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1157/france6.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7990/france2.jpg

Screw the French. They are a bunch Of Back Stabbing Chicken Sh#ts.
Saved their ass twice and the only thing we asked of them was a place to bury our dead.
Right on brother!
 

wineandkeyz

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Sep 30, 2003
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Interesting article in Velonews:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8746.0.html

An interview with Doctor Christiane Ayotte, director of the Doping Control Laboratory at Montreal's Institut National de la Recherché Scientifique. Here are a couple of interesting paragraphs:

"We are extremely surprised that urine samples could have been tested in 2004 and have revealed the presence of EPO," Ayotte said in an interview with VeloNews on Tuesday. "EPO - in its natural state or the synthesized version - is not stable in urine, even if stored at minus 20 degrees."

"It isn't the lab that has the critical bit of information - the link between the code on the sample and the name of the athlete," she noted. "We only get a code at these WADA labs. Someone else must have supplied the paper with the names and their respective codes. So, to me, this whole thing raises a number of questions. I'm worried, because I have a great deal of respect for my colleagues in Paris. I am concerned that they did not cover their backs before being dragged into a very public issue of this kind."
 

blobloblo

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Aug 24, 2005
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wineandkeyz said:
Interesting article in Velonews:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8746.0.html

An interview with Doctor Christiane Ayotte, director of the Doping Control Laboratory at Montreal's Institut National de la Recherché Scientifique. Here are a couple of interesting paragraphs:

"We are extremely surprised that urine samples could have been tested in 2004 and have revealed the presence of EPO," Ayotte said in an interview with VeloNews on Tuesday. "EPO - in its natural state or the synthesized version - is not stable in urine, even if stored at minus 20 degrees."
The article also says:
[size=-1]"I don't dispute their findings," Ayotte said. "If there's residual EPO after five years, it was properly identified. We are not that lucky here."[/size]

[size=-1]De Ceaurriz and Ayotte agree that if enough Erythropoietin - synthetic or natural - remains in a sample, distinguishing the two is not an issue. Such degradation, both said, does not lead to false positives.[/size]

[size=-1]"One of two things happens," De Ceaurriz said. "Either EPO, which is a protein, degrades as time passes and becomes undetectable. In that case we have a negative test result or, as in this case, the EPO persists as it is. We have therefore no doubt about the validity of our results."[/size]

btw I'm sorry i said the lab made the accusation, i should have said that the lab made the tests.
 

Chance3290

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Oct 1, 2004
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No one has yet come up with the answer to the most obvious question; Why did it take so long to come to light? Were the lab boys busy testing the results from a local one-day charity race? Wouldn't you think that TdF results would be at the top of the list?
It seems that L'Equipe couldn't find anything recent, so they started digging for any anomaly, and when they found an 'i' not dotted or a 't' not crossed, their imaginations started taking over.
This is whiney spilt-milk stuff to make headlines and sell newspapers.
 

blobloblo

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Aug 24, 2005
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I don't pretend the accusations are foolproof, or that i know everything, but i can answer some of your questions

l'equipe is a very big newspaper, and this is a very big story which neede four months of enquiries. I find it very hard to believe they faked some documents just to prove what the majority of frenchmen already believe. If you can't find them on the internet then try to buy the newspaper, coz i asssure you they're in it for everyone to see. That said it is too early to know anything for sure.

nugsfan the tests were conducted by the lab for research, not to make accusations. That's probably why they made many tests and didn't keep samples. There seems to me to be no reason to question the credibility of the laboratory, they had no intention of making results public.
On the other hand the fact that no counter-expertise can be made and other things means that armstrong can't be officially sanctionned, and could even attack the newspaper.

I think judgements in this affair depend on what you thought before it happened and how much you trust those involved (lance, newspaper, lab,...), and in both france and the us a there's alot of anti-french or anti-american feelings.
 

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