French newspaper L'Equipe.

[blobloblo]

No one has yet come up with the answer to the most obvious question; Why did it take so long to come to light? Were the lab boys busy testing the results from a local one-day charity race? Wouldn't you think that TdF results would be at the top of the list?
It seems that L'Equipe couldn't find anything recent, so they started digging for any anomaly, and when they found an 'i' not dotted or a 't' not crossed, their imaginations started taking over.
This is whiney spilt-milk stuff to make headlines and sell newspapers.

The tests weren't originally meant to detect cheaters, they were meant to further testing methods. In 1999 one couldn't detect epo, so at the time all tests were negative. The lab worken in 2004 onwards, and analysed 1998 and 1999 samples

 

[wineandkeyz]

The article also says:
[size=-1]"I don't dispute their findings," Ayotte said. "If there's residual EPO after five years, it was properly identified. We are not that lucky here."[/size]

So the French lab is just so much more adept at testing than their Canadian counterparts?

 

[wineandkeyz]

bloboy,
What is your interest in all this? You seem pretty determined to stand up for the newspaper, and to accept their accusations at face value. And why do you say that you can answer these questions? Do you work for L'Equipe?

For one moment, let's assume that the lab did indeed detect the presence of EPO in a supposedly "anonymous" sample, that only L'Equipe can tie back to Lance Armstrong.

We have the head of Canada's testing lab saying that EPO is unstable in urine and would break down even when frozen. Yet the French lab detects it in a 5 year-old sample. My questions still stand:

- Who provided the samples to the lab for testing?
- Who has had possession of those sample for the past five years?
- Who has handled them over that time period and, more importantly, just before they were provided to the lab?
- Who provided the newspaper with the documents that allegedly tie Lance to those samples?

Now, since you say you can answer the questions, here's another one. LA has pointed out that doctors gave him EPO during his treatment for cancer. Obviously, this would have been the synthetic type of EPO. If the samples tested by the lab indeed belonged to LA, and if they had not been doctored by someone trying to frame him, and if they indeed tested positive for the presence of EPO, isn't it possible that the amounts detected were remnants administered during his cancer regiment?

 

[Don Quijote]

Well put, huhe, I agree with you. Vive Le Lance! Don Q

blobloblo


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


great post .... thank you for curing my insomnia.

No one will ever know who is a liar and who is not.

All I know is for I care they can all smoke crack or have a rabbit suppositorioum for all I care.

Talent will always prevail over chemistry .... on the big picture. Small and big advantages can be taken by chem aid. But without talent is money wasted.

I personally dont care.

 

[Don Quijote]

Do you not agree with this: why publish such a controversial article if it would rely on uncertain speculation, with no options regarding legal consequences?DQ

I don't pretend the accusations are foolproof, or that i know everything, but i can answer some of your questions

l'equipe is a very big newspaper, and this is a very big story which neede four months of enquiries. I find it very hard to believe they faked some documents just to prove what the majority of frenchmen already believe. If you can't find them on the internet then try to buy the newspaper, coz i asssure you they're in it for everyone to see. That said it is too early to know anything for sure.

nugsfan the tests were conducted by the lab for research, not to make accusations. That's probably why they made many tests and didn't keep samples. There seems to me to be no reason to question the credibility of the laboratory, they had no intention of making results public.
On the other hand the fact that no counter-expertise can be made and other things means that armstrong can't be officially sanctionned, and could even attack the newspaper.

I think judgements in this affair depend on what you thought before it happened and how much you trust those involved (lance, newspaper, lab,...), and in both france and the us a there's alot of anti-french or anti-american feelings.

 

[blobloblo]

So the French lab is just so much more adept at testing than their Canadian counterparts?

You're right, i have misinterpreted the article Still, i've seen on another post that the head of the uci doping agency (or smthing like that) agrees with the french lab. The scientists sem to be divided. Without more info, it's hard to tell between the two, we aren't experts in that sort of thing, but this makes l'equipe's case less solid.

 

[blobloblo]

bloboy,
What is your interest in all this? You seem pretty determined to stand up for the newspaper, and to accept their accusations at face value. And why do you say that you can answer these questions? Do you work for L'Equipe?

For one moment, let's assume that the lab did indeed detect the presence of EPO in a supposedly "anonymous" sample, that only L'Equipe can tie back to Lance Armstrong.

We have the head of Canada's testing lab saying that EPO is unstable in urine and would break down even when frozen. Yet the French lab detects it in a 5 year-old sample. My questions still stand:

- Who provided the samples to the lab for testing?
- Who has had possession of those sample for the past five years?
- Who has handled them over that time period and, more importantly, just before they were provided to the lab?
- Who provided the newspaper with the documents that allegedly tie Lance to those samples?

Now, since you say you can answer the questions, here's another one. LA has pointed out that doctors gave him EPO during his treatment for cancer. Obviously, this would have been the synthetic type of EPO. If the samples tested by the lab indeed belonged to LA, and if they had not been doctored by someone trying to frame him, and if they indeed tested positive for the presence of EPO, isn't it possible that the amounts detected were remnants administered during his cancer regiment?

lol just because i tend (and only tend) to believe those accusations and disagree with you you say i work for L'Equipe or have a hidden "interest" Btw my opinion is the same as that of a probable majority of europeans and some americans, l'equipe's not that big I never said i could answer all questions, only some, and that only by reading l'equipe's web site (which is by the way much more detailed on this affair than american media)

Youre questions are valid, and they have to be answered. I don't have any answers to them. For lack of more detailed info, this is a matter of trust, you immediately think that this whole affair is a french conspiracy or you don't.

EPO stays visible only for a few days in the body, so there can't be residues of lance's cancer treatment. It stays for a few months or years when it is at -20°C

 

[blobloblo]

Do you not agree with this: why publish such a controversial article if it would rely on uncertain speculation, with no options regarding legal consequences?DQ

Well having the proof that an icon of sport and 7 times tour winner is doped sounds like reason enough to publish, especially in a sports newspaper. Or, if that's what you'd prefere to hear, they hate arsmtrong so they thought let's invent something and publish it

 

[Don Quijote]

TOUCHE! TOUCHE! DQ

Your very first post on this forum, and you spout this drivel?

Fact 1: L'Equipe is indeed a tabloid. Whatever its supposed status was before, it lowered itself to that level when it ran a front-page hit job spouting accusations it admits cannot be proven nor refuted.

Fact 2: The lab DID NOT make these accusations. They supposedly tested anonymous samples, and have gone on record as saying they have no way of knowing whose samples tested positive. The supposed "link" was created by the tabloid.

Here are my questions:
- Where have these supposed samples been for 7 years?
- Who has had control of them?
- Has anyone ever heard of Photoshop? Do you know how easy it is to "create" legitimate-looking documents?
- When I search the internet, why can I find many images of the front page of L'Equipe and its "editor", but none of the supposed documents that "prove" their case?

By the way, does anyone else think it's merely a coincidence that this story came out within days of Armstrong riding with President Bush? Two of France's favorite Americans?

 

[Don Quijote]

Ethically the newspaper L'Equipe lower its professional integrity by compromising its jounalistic image in reporting such a speculative story, that can only be perceived as "tabloid like" in style and malicious with the intent to hurt Lance's professional integrity and reputation. DQ

Well having the proof that an icon of sport and 7 times tour winner is doped sounds like reason enough to publish, especially in a sports newspaper. Or, if that's what you'd prefere to hear, they hate arsmtrong so they thought let's invent something and publish it

 

[blobloblo]

TOUCHE! TOUCHE! DQ

Great, you learned to quote

 

[wineandkeyz]

EPO stays visible only for a few days in the body, so there can't be residues of lance's cancer treatment. It stays for a few months or years when it is at -20°C

Hm... So according to science, it only stays in the body for a few days. It stays for a few months or years at -20 degrees C...

Yet they tested for it FIVE years later? In my country FIVE is more than a FEW.

Here's a hypothesis... One I can't prove anymore than L'Equipe can "prove" their "Armstrong Lie" headline...

This thing wreaks of a setup. So who would gain the most from this story? L'Equipe would sell a few more papers, but that's pretty short-lived. But LA is involved in a lawsuit with his insurance company, who refuses to pay money they owe him for his Tour wins based on allegations made in a recent book.

So this week's "story", which L'Equipe has supposedly been working on for 4 months, helps the insurance company's cause.

 

[wineandkeyz]

Well having the proof that an icon of sport and 7 times tour winner is doped sounds like reason enough to publish, especially in a sports newspaper. Or, if that's what you'd prefere to hear, they hate arsmtrong so they thought let's invent something and publish it

I'm not convinced they have "proof"... And they wouldn't be the first news outlet -- or even the largest -- to run with a sensational story based on faulty documents... Just ask CBS...

 

[wheelist]

I've got several bottles of 10 year old **** in the cupboard. They can be yours for only $20 each.

Just send me a check with the code number you want printed on the bottle and I'll send you one by return of post. You'll have to add your own EPO though - I don't do drugs.

 

[huhenio]

You can have my cholesterol free **** for 15$ ..... find my caffeine please

 

[wineandkeyz]

This thing wreaks of a setup. So who would gain the most from this story? L'Equipe would sell a few more papers, but that's pretty short-lived. But LA is involved in a lawsuit with his insurance company, who refuses to pay money they owe him for his Tour wins based on allegations made in a recent book.

So this week's "story", which L'Equipe has supposedly been working on for 4 months, helps the insurance company's cause.

Found this link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/more/09/23/bc.armstrong.bonusdisput.ap/

I think the following quote from the insurance company sounds a little fishy, considering the events of the past week:

"We've requested (drug) test results to disprove the allegations -- clean test results that should be easily attainable," Compton said Thursday. "We're not planning on releasing them to the media or doing anything other than verifying that they exist."

 

[huhenio]

Follow the money trail my friends .... 5 million reasons to sling mud.

How much a lab technician makes?

How much a journalist makes?

I want a picture of LA **** in a jar, held by a Lab Technician, an Insurance Company Officer, and a Journalist with a sing that reads "This Is Not A Scam" and I might believe it.

 

[anthonyjf]

I'm not convinced they have "proof"... And they wouldn't be the first news outlet -- or even the largest -- to run with a sensational story based on faulty documents... Just ask CBS...

News Flash! I just heard that the source that leaked the confidential records linking the coded samples to the individual rider was Dan Rathers!

 

[Don Quijote]

Now "Blo", you can do better than that...I am disappointed. For an imsomniac, here is a tip on sleep hygiene: avoid engaging in vigorous debates before going to sleep! "A narrow mind is a great thing to waste"- ME. DQ

Great, you learned to quote

 

[Don Quijote]

HE-HE-HE...HUHENIO!

Follow the money trail my friends .... 5 million reasons to sling mud.

How much a lab technician makes?

How much a journalist makes?

I want a picture of LA **** in a jar, held by a Lab Technician, an Insurance Company Officer, and a Journalist with a sing that reads "This Is Not A Scam" and I might believe it.