French newspaper L'Equipe.



anthonyjf said:
The French are just mad because they can't even win their own race.

Lance has been nothing but good to the French people. He revived the Tour, and this is how they thank him? First Normandy, then the Tour; Americans are getting tired of bailing out these ungrateful, lazy cowards.
Sorry, but whatever your view on this whole affair, claiming that Lance 'revived' the Tour is silly. He may have done quite a bit to develop cycling in the US, but the Tour did not need any reviving. Come on. The Tour made Lance, not the other way around. :rolleyes:

And I do not follow the whole war thing. I never hear you mention gratitude for the French bloclade that made the battle of Yorktown a success and helped your country become independent. If I remember my history more Frenchmen died there than Americans (I may be wrong, I am sure someone will correct me on that one)!

In any event, I doubt that the Equipe is out to get Armstrong because he is American. They may be out to get him as seven time TdF winner. And, for the record, I find it rather fishy that the Equipe was able to connect the test samples to Lance... so I am not an automatic Armstrong hater!

And please, I am not trying to offend anyone, so let us not let things degenerate into insults! :)
 
Hey, BBC Sports has an article with E. Merck, who tells us: (paraphrasing) that he believes Armstrong did not use "dope" and that if he had to choose between a journalist and Lance, he would choose Lance! Don Q:cool:
Powerful Pete said:
Sorry, but whatever your view on this whole affair, claiming that Lance 'revived' the Tour is silly. He may have done quite a bit to develop cycling in the US, but the Tour did not need any reviving. Come on. The Tour made Lance, not the other way around. :rolleyes:

And I do not follow the whole war thing. I never hear you mention gratitude for the French bloclade that made the battle of Yorktown a success and helped your country become independent. If I remember my history more Frenchmen died there than Americans (I may be wrong, I am sure someone will correct me on that one)!

In any event, I doubt that the Equipe is out to get Armstrong because he is American. They may be out to get him as seven time TdF winner. And, for the record, I find it rather fishy that the Equipe was able to connect the test samples to Lance... so I am not an automatic Armstrong hater!

And please, I am not trying to offend anyone, so let us not let things degenerate into insults! :)
 
wineandkeyz said:
Hm... So according to science, it only stays in the body for a few days. It stays for a few months or years at -20 degrees C...

Yet they tested for it FIVE years later? In my country FIVE is more than a FEW.

Here's a hypothesis... One I can't prove anymore than L'Equipe can "prove" their "Armstrong Lie" headline...

This thing wreaks of a setup. So who would gain the most from this story? L'Equipe would sell a few more papers, but that's pretty short-lived. But LA is involved in a lawsuit with his insurance company, who refuses to pay money they owe him for his Tour wins based on allegations made in a recent book.

So this week's "story", which L'Equipe has supposedly been working on for 4 months, helps the insurance company's cause.

and l'equipe's article was meant to be speculative and uninformed!!!!! Talk about unproven allegations here!!!
Btw the insurance company was already refusing to pay armstrong before the accusations (the money was for his 2004 victory).

A few things on this affair:
the lab tested the "b" samples because the "a" were already used, and samples from 2000 are unaccessible because of a doping enquiry. Samples of 2001 onwards weren't tested because by epo could be detected and riders knew how not to be caught.
Lance has many samples because he was the yellow jersey so was tested more often.
Tests are anonymous, the lab didn't know whe they were testing. Their intent was to refine a testing method, in partnership with the world antidoping agency, a method that they had already used in 2000 on 1998 samples.
L'Equipe used the official reports from 1999. There are numbers on them and on the samples so you can identify riders.

Another thing, this is not the first time that lance is accused. For many people, this affair only confirms their suspicions. His close friendship with the doctor Ferrari, The LA Confidential book, banned substances in the dustbins of the team in 2000, accusations by former lance teammates (like Stephen Swart), his former personnal assistant Mike Anderson and Greg Lemond.
 
wineandkeyz said:
Hm... So according to science, it only stays in the body for a few days. It stays for a few months or years at -20 degrees C...

Yet they tested for it FIVE years later? In my country FIVE is more than a FEW.

Here's a hypothesis... One I can't prove anymore than L'Equipe can "prove" their "Armstrong Lie" headline...

This thing wreaks of a setup. So who would gain the most from this story? L'Equipe would sell a few more papers, but that's pretty short-lived. But LA is involved in a lawsuit with his insurance company, who refuses to pay money they owe him for his Tour wins based on allegations made in a recent book.

So this week's "story", which L'Equipe has supposedly been working on for 4 months, helps the insurance company's cause.
By "few" i meant five or more. was it that hard to guess it? and i said "months or years" becoz it depends on the scientist interviewed
 
blobloblo said:
By "few" i meant five or more.

I wonder if blobuddy works for the UCI (and/or L'Equipe?), since they all seem to have problems dealing with numbers...

On August 28, the UCI says they'll publicize the results of their investigation "within 10 days" -- which is now officially past...

And bloboy thinks "a few years" means 5 or more... :rolleyes:

By the way, has anybody seen hide or hair of blobuddy since L'Equipe (France's version of the National Enquirer) published their hack job on LA?
 
They should leave the UCI testing to a NATION WITH A HISTORY OF HONESTY like Norway. Norway is the most awesome nation in the world and it should be the mediator and validator of all b.s. of the world of sports.

The rest of the Euro nations have too much involved in their national pride. Norway is cool ... They used to be vikings and now they chilled.
 
Well said! Now, how about Lance Armstrong's possible comeback on a straight #8 TDF win, to ******** the French again! Don Q:rolleyes:
wineandkeyz said:
I wonder if blobuddy works for the UCI (and/or L'Equipe?), since they all seem to have problems dealing with numbers...

On August 28, the UCI says they'll publicize the results of their investigation "within 10 days" -- which is now officially past...

And bloboy thinks "a few years" means 5 or more... :rolleyes:

By the way, has anybody seen hide or hair of blobuddy since L'Equipe (France's version of the National Enquirer) published their hack job on LA?
 
Hey, you all, the BBC just announced that the UCI will take NO ACTION against Lance!!! SHAME TO YOU_ L'Equipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DQ:cool:
Don Quijote said:
Well said! Now, how about Lance Armstrong's possible comeback on a straight #8 TDF win, to ******** the French again! Don Q:rolleyes:
 
Don Quijote said:
Hey, you all, the BBC just announced that the UCI will take NO ACTION against Lance!!! SHAME TO YOU_ L'Equipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DQ:cool:

L'Equipe told the truth - six times in fact.
 
Well...kindly refer to the BBC Sports article:"Armstrong not facing sanction", published today, it has all the juicy details! Verbruggen states: "It's not wise to condemn someone who hasn't tested positive in a legal sense". He also said: "The normal sanction- if you can prove that someone has tested positive- is a two year ban, but what we have here cannot be used as proof." Also, a UCI spokesman commented on its president Mr. ****, "for making public statements about the likely guilt of an athlete on the basis of a newspaper article and WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS." How can you PROVE anything without the facts, my friend, that is just MERE SPECULATION for those of us that honor sound common sense and justice, eh? I tell you all, if Lance returns to the TDF, NO ONE CAN OR WILL BEAT HIM, NO EUROPEAN or any cyclist IN THIS PLANET CAN BEAT LANCE!!! You all must accept the fact that Lance's superior cardio-pulmonary and neuro-muscular engine is EXTRAORDINARY, and easily misunderstood for steroids or EPO enhanced cycling performance.So all of you maliscious and jealous people: SHUT UP and WITNESS a GREAT CYCLING LEGEND: LANCE ARMSTRONG- LIVESTRONG!!!!
Don Quijote:D
limerickman said:
L'Equipe told the truth - six times in fact.
 
Don Quijote said:
Verbruggen states: "It's not wise to condemn someone who hasn't tested positive in a legal sense". He also said: "The normal sanction- if you can prove that someone has tested positive- is a two year ban, but what we have here cannot be used as proof."

EPO was found in the sample - 6 times.
What more proof is needed ?

Don Quijote said:
Also, a UCI spokesman commented on its president Mr. ****, "for making public statements about the likely guilt of an athlete on the basis of a newspaper article and WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS."

****....Verbruggen ?
There me thinking his name was Hein Verbruggen - non ?


Don Quijote said:
I tell you all, if Lance returns to the TDF, NO ONE CAN OR WILL BEAT HIM, NO EUROPEAN or any cyclist IN THIS PLANET CAN BEAT LANCE!!!

eeerrrrrr, TDF 1993-1996, he was beaten by Europeans, lots of Europeans.


Don Quijote said:
You all must accept the fact that Lance's superior cardio-pulmonary and neuro-muscular engine is EXTRAORDINARY,

.......so extradordinary that he packed the TDF three out of four starts.
Yep, it is extraordinary (not).

Don Quijote said:
So all of you maliscious and jealous people: SHUT UP and WITNESS a GREAT CYCLING LEGEND: LANCE ARMSTRONG- LIVESTRONG!!!!
Don Quijote:D

You mean Cheatstrong (6 times and counting) ?

Run along there Senor Quixote, I'm sure there are plenty of other windmills to tilt at.
 
limerickman said:
EPO was found in the sample - 6 times.
What more proof is needed ?


Proof that the samples were his, that the samples weren't tampered with or altered by storage, and that the test is valid on samples of this kind. That'll do it for me. I would think the first and last would be relatively easy to prove. That middle one though will be tougher. I doubt we'll ever find out for sure. Actually that last one is already on shaky ground too: RutgerBekeStory

The UCI has spoken and there will be no stripped titles or asterisks next to Armstrong's name in the record books. Question Lim - who would have the motivation and means to sabotage the samples? And what would that motivation be?
 
DiabloScott said:
Proof that the samples were his, that the samples weren't tampered with or altered by storage, and that the test is valid on samples of this kind. That'll do it for me. I would think the first and last would be relatively easy to prove. That middle one though will be tougher. I doubt we'll ever find out for sure. Actually that last one is already on shaky ground too: RutgerBekeStory

The UCI has spoken and there will be no stripped titles or asterisks next to Armstrong's name in the record books. Question Lim - who would have the motivation and means to sabotage the samples? And what would that motivation be?

Diablo : I don't think that anyone sabotaged the sample.
And to be absolutely frank with you, I think that there are a lot more cyclists
who are doping, as well as LA.

But it is LA who painted himself in to that corner - by his incessant claims to be clean and his supposed wish to have a clean sport.

If he went about his business and kept his mouth shut he probably could have got away with it.
But since 1999 he's been telling the world he's been clean and plenty of people have stated otherwise - and have said that in fact LA doped.
We know have the scientific evidence that EPO was in his sample as well.
 
limerickman said:
Diablo : I don't think that anyone sabotaged the sample.
And to be absolutely frank with you, I think that there are a lot more cyclists
who are doping, as well as LA.

But it is LA who painted himself in to that corner - by his incessant claims to be clean and his supposed wish to have a clean sport.

If he went about his business and kept his mouth shut he probably could have got away with it.
But since 1999 he's been telling the world he's been clean and plenty of people have stated otherwise - and have said that in fact LA doped.
We know have the scientific evidence that EPO was in his sample as well.

You didn't answer the question.
 
DiabloScott said:
You didn't answer the question.

I did - I said I thought that the sample wasn't tampered with.

Who would have the motivation to tamper with the sample ?
I don't know - would anyone be that motivated ? Would WADA ? Can EPO be added to a sample retrospectively ? I read that even if you wanted to, it can't be done.

I think that it is implausible to suggest that LA is the victim of a conspiracy devised by parties unknown.

I find it compelling that a disparate group of people (former trainers, former team mates, former team employees, several journalists, some cycling rivals and WADA) have all alleged, to differing levels of evidential proof, that LA doped.
 
limerickman said:
I did - I said I thought that the sample wasn't tampered with.

Who would have the motivation to tamper with the sample ?
I don't know - would anyone be that motivated ? Would WADA ? Can EPO be added to a sample retrospectively ? I read that even if you wanted to, it can't be done.

I think that it is implausible to suggest that LA is the victim of a conspiracy devised by parties unknown.

I find it compelling that a disparate group of people (former trainers, former team mates, former team employees, several journalists, some cycling rivals and WADA) have all alleged, to differing levels of evidential proof, that LA doped.


See the thing is, you're as incapable of believing there could be a conspiracy, as the Lanceatics are of believing there could be any doping in his history. I suggest that motivation sufficient to engage in a conspiracy exists.

WADA doesn't have much motivation. Think harder.
 
Well, if you are going to place your trust in a tabloid newspaper that exploits unfounded and maliscious journalism, then I have to believe that you are in the same clan, Irish man, for you have NO LEGAL PROOF to substantiate your claim in a just and fair manner. I believe it is grounds for a defamation of character lawsuit. I refuse to accept anyone's speculations as facts, I AM VERY SKEPTIC at people like you and the French newspaper L'Equipe. Oh well, it must reflect the journalistic culture of your kind...I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, and LANCE BLASTED ALL CONTENDERS TO HIS CROWN as if they were AMATEUR CYCLISTS...HUMILIATING, EH, for HE DID IT WITHOUT HIS TEAM. particularly in the legendary stage #14.If the UCI chastised L'Equipe's frivolous claims, then who do you think you are to disregard their authority?! Your snobbery is plain FOOLISHNESS, and the windmill keeps hitting your hard head to no avail, you are still BLINDED by your MALICE and unfounded argument...FOOLISH and VAIN! LIVESTRONG!!!!!! DQ:cool:
limerickman said:
EPO was found in the sample - 6 times.
What more proof is needed ?



****....Verbruggen ?
There me thinking his name was Hein Verbruggen - non ?




eeerrrrrr, TDF 1993-1996, he was beaten by Europeans, lots of Europeans.




.......so extradordinary that he packed the TDF three out of four starts.
Yep, it is extraordinary (not).



You mean Cheatstrong (6 times and counting) ?

Run along there Senor Quixote, I'm sure there are plenty of other windmills to tilt at.
 
Oh, and I do not know any Irish cyclist, or any European cyclist that have won the TDF SEVEN TIMES IN A ROW...OUCH, THAT MUST REALLY HURT YOUR BIG EGO,eh? Lance won the TDF in 1999, then AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN, and then AGAIN, and AGAIN...AND AGAIN!!!!!! And if he returns in 2006, IT WILL BE NUMBER EIGHT IN A ROW!!!! You skeptical Europeans MUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT A GIFTED AND TALENTED AMERICAN FROM THE USA HAS ACHIEVED WHAT NO ONE HAS EVER DREAM OF DOING, NOT EVEN MERCK, ah for he tried...BUT FAILED, that is the SWEET TRUTH, that neither you nor any other skeptic on this planet can change, wether you like it or not...oh, it must be such a bitter slap to your pride...Yes, Irish man, it is an AMERICAN that RULES the TDF, OUCH again...the stagnant cycling hiatus of Europeans in the TDF, and the French must be mad, for the Texan is returning to kick their butts one more time...FACT???!!! DQ:D
Don Quijote said:
Well, if you are going to place your trust in a tabloid newspaper that exploits unfounded and maliscious journalism, then I have to believe that you are in the same clan, Irish man, for you have NO LEGAL PROOF to substantiate your claim in a just and fair manner. I believe it is grounds for a defamation of character lawsuit. I refuse to accept anyone's speculations as facts, I AM VERY SKEPTIC at people like you and the French newspaper L'Equipe. Oh well, it must reflect the journalistic culture of your kind...I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, and LANCE BLASTED ALL CONTENDERS TO HIS CROWN as if they were AMATEUR CYCLISTS...HUMILIATING, EH, for HE DID IT WITHOUT HIS TEAM. particularly in the legendary stage #14.If the UCI chastised L'Equipe's frivolous claims, then who do you think you are to disregard their authority?! Your snobbery is plain FOOLISHNESS, and the windmill keeps hitting your hard head to no avail, you are still BLINDED by your MALICE and unfounded argument...FOOLISH and VAIN! LIVESTRONG!!!!!! DQ:cool:
 
Don Quijote said:
Well, if you are going to place your trust in a tabloid newspaper

L'Equipe is a broadsheet, not a tabloid.

Don Quijote said:
then I have to believe that you are in the same clan,

We don't have clans here in Europe - we have nations.
France is a country, Ireland is a separate country.


Don Quijote said:
Oh well, it must reflect the journalistic culture of your kind...:

L'Equipe is a fine publication - it is a well respected paper.
Even within the wider media industryL'Equipe is well regarded, in an industry (media) which is full of jealousy and rivalry


Don Quijote said:
I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN,

Nothing wrong with being proud of one nationality.
But the discussion here, ain't about nationality (although some like to think that it is about American/French nationality).

Don Quijote said:
I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, and LANCE BLASTED ALL CONTENDERS TO HIS CROWN

......and we now know how he managed to win the 1999 TDF, don't we ?


Don Quijote said:
If the UCI chastised L'Equipe's frivolous claims, then who do you think you are to disregard their authority?! :

I respect the UCI mandate that prohibits doping : Mr Armstrong doesn't.



Don Quijote said:
Your snobbery is plain FOOLISHNESS, and the windmill keeps hitting your hard head to no avail, you are still BLINDED by your MALICE and unfounded argument...FOOLISH and VAIN! LIVESTRONG!!!!!! DQ:cool:

I hold in contempt an athlete who has lied repeatedly about his claims to play fair and to cycle clean.

Is it malicious to confront cheating ? Maybe it is in your world DQ but it ain't in mine.
 
I want to say a couple of things, but I rather not...

Lim why are you discussing with such an........

MJ


Don Quijote said:
Oh, and I do not know any Irish cyclist, or any European cyclist that have won the TDF SEVEN TIMES IN A ROW...OUCH, THAT MUST REALLY HURT YOUR BIG EGO,eh? Lance won the TDF in 1999, then AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN, and then AGAIN, and AGAIN...AND AGAIN!!!!!! And if he returns in 2006, IT WILL BE NUMBER EIGHT IN A ROW!!!! You skeptical Europeans MUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT A GIFTED AND TALENTED AMERICAN FROM THE USA HAS ACHIEVED WHAT NO ONE HAS EVER DREAM OF DOING, NOT EVEN MERCK, ah for he tried...BUT FAILED, that is the SWEET TRUTH, that neither you nor any other skeptic on this planet can change, wether you like it or not...oh, it must be such a bitter slap to your pride...Yes, Irish man, it is an AMERICAN that RULES the TDF, OUCH again...the stagnant cycling hiatus of Europeans in the TDF, and the French must be mad, for the Texan is returning to kick their butts one more time...FACT???!!! DQ:D
 

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