Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking (Modified and Expanded)



M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004

1. Why do people mountain bike?
a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much
farther, in the same amount of time, than they can by
walking. They also maintain constant pressure on land
managers, to open more and more trails to bikes. Of
course, all of these trails are already open to them, if
they choose to walk. They also frequently claim that
closing trails to bikes "excludes" them from the parks.
This could only be true if they were unable to walk. Of
course, they are able to walk. There's nothing inherently
wrong with bicycling instead of walking; we all like to
save energy, when it's appropriate. Use of a bicycle to
replace automobile use is obviously beneficial. However,
by the same token, replacing hiking with mountain biking
is obviously not beneficial.
b. They are interested in the quantity of nature they can
see, rather than the quality of their experience. While
riding a bike, especially over terrain as rough as a
trail, one has to be constantly paying attention to not
crashing. That make it almost impossible to notice much
else. By contrast, a hiker feels the ground, hears all
the sounds and smells all the odors of nature and can
stop instantly, if he/she finds something interesting.
The brain thrives on stimulation. A biker has to travel
several times as far as a hiker, to get the same
stimulation as a hiker. (And, by the same token,
motorcyclists have to travel several times as far as a
bicyclist, and an auto user several times as far as a
motorcyclist, since they are enclosed in a metal box.)
c. They are interested in thrills. Riding a bike on a trail,
especially a trail containing many obstacles, or a trail
one is not familiar with, is very challenging. (But if
mountain biking is the high point of your week, as it
seems to be for many mountain bikers, you must be leading
a pretty dull life, off of the bike!)
d. They are interested in building mountain biking skills
and competing with other mountain bikers. The thrill of
racing drives people to spend more money on their bike,
and ride it harder and more often. Racing, up to and
including the Olympics, drives a lot of mountain biking.
Of course, it is also extremely harmful to the parks and
natural areas that are used for practice! It is hard to
think of any other (legal) use of public lands, other
than hunting, that is as harmful as mountain biking.

2. What is driving the sport of mountain biking? Besides
the attraction for participants, manufacturers and
retailers of mountain bikes and mountain biking
accessories, as well as "adventure" travel guides, make
a lot of money from promoting mountain biking. Even some
auto manufacturers (e.g. Subaru) promote and sponsor
mountain biking, and try to use its popularity to sell
more cars. The tourism industry also promotes mountain
biking, among other attractions.

3. What harm does mountain biking do?
a. Most obvious is the acceleration of erosion. Knobby tires
rip into the soil, loosening it and allowing rain to wash
it away. They also create V-shaped grooves that make
walking difficult or even dangerous. The mechanical
advantage given by the gears and ball bearings allow a
mountain biker to travel several times as fast as a
hiker. Given their increased weight (rider plus bike),
this results in vastly increased momentum, and hence much
greater horizontal (shearing) forces on the soil.
(Witness the skid marks from stops, starts, and turns.)
According to Newton, every action has an equal and
opposite reaction. Mountain bikes were built much
stronger than other bikes, so that they could withstand
the greater forces they were subject to on rough trails.
These same forces, therefore, are being applied to the
trails! To give a definite number, the winner of a 20-
mile race here in Briones Regional Park averaged 13 MPH
(the speed limit is 15 MPH -- where were the park
rangers?).
b. A hiker must be very careful not to accidentally step on
small animals and plants on the trail. For a mountain
biker, it is almost impossible to avoid killing countless
animals and plants on and under the trail. They have to
pay attention to controlling the bike, and can't afford
to look carefully at what is on the trail, especially
when travelling fast. And even if they happen to see, for
example, a snake, it is hard for them to stop in time to
avoid killing it. A hiker, when crossing a creek, will
try to avoid getting wet, by crossing on stepping stones
or logs. Mountain bikers, on the other hand, simply ride
right through the creek bed, crushing any animals or
plants that happen to be there. Mountain biking magazines
are full of photos of mountain bikers throwing up spray,
as they barrel through creeks. Not only do bikes destroy
animals and plants as they ride across streams, they ride
through streams stirring up sediment. The sediment in the
water interferes with the oxygen uptake by aquatic life,
for example, killing fish- and frog eggs. Young fish,
insects, amphibians, and aquatic microorganisms are
extremely sensitive to sediment in water.
c. Bikes also allow people to travel several times as far as
a hiker. This translates into several times the impacts,
both on the trail and on the wildlife (to say nothing of
the other trail users). Existing parklands are already
inadequate to protect the wildlife that live there. When
they are crisscrossed by mountain bikers and legal or
illegal trails, their habitat becomes even more
inadequate. Mountain bikers frequently advertise rides of
20-50 miles or more. Have you ever tried to walk that far
in a day? In other words, allowing bikes in a park
greatly increases human presence in that park and drives
wildlife further from the resources that they need to
survive, including water, food, and mates.
d. Due to their width and speed, bikes can't safely pass
each other on narrow trails. Therefore, policies that
permit mountain biking also result in more habitat
destruction, as trails are widened by bikers (or by
hikers and equestrians jumping out of their way).
e. Knobby mountain bike tires are ideal for carrying mud,
and consequently exotic plants and fungi, from place to
place, resulting in the spread of exotic invasive
species, such as weeds and Sudden Oak Death.
f. Mountain biking is driving the very young and old off of
the trails and hence out of the parks. Even able-bodied
hikers and equestrians fear for their safety, and don't
enjoy sharing the trails with bikes. (The mountain bikers
claim that they are simply being selfish and "unwilling
to share", but actually they have no problem sharing
trails with mountain bikers; it is only their bikes that
are a problem!)
g. Mountain bikes, which are obviously built to go anywhere,
teach children and anyone else who sees them that the
rough treatment of nature is acceptable. This undoubtedly
has a negative effect on people's treatment of nature.
h. In order to mitigate bike-caused erosion, park managers
have been resorting to extreme measures -- even in some
cases putting a plastic matrix or other exotic material
under the trail (e.g. in Pleasanton Ridge Regional
Preserve, near Pleasanton, California)! It's hard to
imagine that this will have a beneficial effect on the
park and its wildlife….

4. Mountain bikers claim that their sport has no greater
environmental impact than hiking. Is that true? If you
read the "studies" that make that claim, you find that
they don't really compare the impacts of hiking and
mountain biking, but only the impacts per foot. If, for
a moment, we assume that the studies are correct in
their having equivalent impacts per foot, it would still
follow that mountain biking has far greater impact per
person, since mountain bikers typically travel so much
farther than hikers. Besides overlooking distances
travelled, those "studies" almost all ignore impacts on
wildlife. And they don't study mountain biking under
normal conditions -- only at a very slow speed.
Actually, the comparison with hiking is irrelevant. It
would only be relevant if we planned to allow only one
of the two, and were considering which of the two is
more harmful. In fact, no one is considering banning
hiking. We are only considering adding mountain biking.
Therefore, the only relevant question is, "Is mountain
biking harmful"? (Of course, it is!)

5. Where should mountain biking allowed? A couple of role
models for wildlife protection are Yosemite National
Park and East Bay Municipal Utility District (in
Alameda and Contra Costa counties, California). They
both restrict bicycles to paved roads, where they
can't do much harm. Somehow bicyclists have managed to
enjoy their sport for over a hundred years, without
riding off-road.

6. What should the policy be on trails? Closed to bikes,
unless marked open. Signs that say "No Bikes" are
quickly and repeatedly ripped out of the ground by
mountain bikers.

7. Isn't it discriminatory to allow hikers and equestrians
on trails, but not mountain bikers? Mountain bikers love
to tell this lie, apparently because they think it will
gain them some sympathy. The truth is that mountain
bikers have exactly the same access to trails that
everyone else has! It is only their bikes that are
banned. If mountain bikers were really being
discriminated against, they could easily go to court to
gain access. However … they already have access to every
trail in the world!

8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public
lands? I am a taxpayer! The public has the right,
through its elected representatives, to restrict how
land is used. A federal court has already ruled that
there is no right to mountain bike. It is a privilege,
and any land manager who gives a good reason (such as
safety or protecting the environment) can keep bikes off
of trails (see
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10.htm).

9. Don't mountain bikers do some good things, like trail
construction and trail maintenance? Trail construction
destroys wildlife habitat both directly (by killing
plants and animals) and indirectly (by reducing the size
of the intervening "islands" of habitat). Moreover,
mountain bikers favor trails that are "twisty"
(sinuous), bumpy, and full of obstacles that provide
thrills for mountain bikers. Such designs increase
habitat destruction (by lengthening the trail) and make
the trails less useful for hikers and equestrians. Trail
maintenance sounds good, until you realize that it would
hardly be necessary, if bikes weren't allowed there. The
mountain bikers are the main reason why trail
maintenance is necessary! Trails used only by hikers
require hardly any maintenance. Therefore, admitting
bicycles to a park greatly increases its cost of
maintenance. Nothing is really "free", including trail
construction and maintenance. (How does the saying go?
"Beware of Trojans bearing gifts"?)

10. But don't mountain bikers provide added safety, by being
able to quickly summon help in the event of an
emergency? I would rather trust in a cell phone, than a
speeding mountain biker. Besides, natural areas are
already one of the safest places you can be. In over 50
years of hiking and backpacking, I have never witnessed
any situation requiring emergency aid. Most people go to
natural areas partly for solitude. If we wanted to be
around large, fast-moving pieces of machinery, we would
stay in the city!

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
J

John Morgan

Guest
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
> Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004
>
[...]

I am in awe. It makes so much sense now! I am converted...
no more mountain biking for me. Thanks for the FAQ Michael.

-John Morgan
 
A

Andy Chequer

Guest
> I am in awe. It makes so much sense now! I am converted...
> no more mountain biking for me. Thanks for the FAQ
> Michael.
>
> -John Morgan

The old one just wasn't long winded and incoherent enough.
Nice to see it fixed.

Andy Chequer
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:03:51 -0700, "John Morgan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.news:[email protected]... .>
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking .> Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. .> March 5, 2004 .> .[...] . .I am in awe.
It makes so much sense now! I am converted... no more
.mountain biking for me. Thanks for the FAQ Michael.

You're welcome. Thanks for being so honest.

.-John Morgan .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
R

R.White

Guest
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
> Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004
>
> 1. Why do people mountain bike?
> a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much
> farther, in the same amount of time, than they can by
> walking.

I have never said that, so right away you are lying.
 

Greg-O

New Member
Aug 24, 2003
163
0
0
owned-dogass.JPG
 
J

Jim Roberts

Guest
R.White wrote:

> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
>>Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004
>>
>>1. Why do people mountain bike?
>>a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much
>> farther, in the same amount of time, than they can by
>> walking.
>
>
> I have never said that, so right away you are lying.

Again, a moron has shown his colors.

jimbat
 
D

Djarvinen

Guest
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:

I don't know why I am even bothering. Maybe it's because
it's like hitting your head against the wall. It feel so
good when you stop!

Anyway, I'll let others respond to your many ridiculous
statements. I'll only go after this one:

>
> 8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public
> lands? I am a taxpayer! The public has the right,
> through its elected representatives, to restrict how
> land is used.

Thank you. I will continue to mountain bike on those trails
and lands where my elected representatives have legally
allowed me to do so.

(Apologies for feeding the troll. But honestly, I haven't
been to the zoo in a really long time, and it is hard to
resist the urge!)

DJ
------------------------------------------------------
preface email addie with 'd' to defeat anti-spaminator
 
T

Typical Mountai

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
> Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004
>
> 1. Why do people mountain bike?
> a. Becuase I am an insane freak and my psoriasis is really
> mentally getting to me I am working on creating
> wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure
> habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years
> fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On 7 Mar 2004 14:41:35 -0800, [email protected] (R.White) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .>
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking .> Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. .> March 5, 2004 .> .> 1. Why do people
mountain bike? .> a. They say that using a bike allows them
to get much farther, in the same .> amount of time, than
they can by walking. . .I have never said that, so right
away you are lying.

Where do you see the word "everyone"? Idiot.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 

ManitouSHX

New Member
Mar 1, 2004
31
0
0
37
God I can't believe I'm even going to allow myself to get sucked into this ridiculous situation. I'm not going to entertain you with responses to even half of your absolutely ludicrous claims. But this is what I will say. You want to know something Vandeman? Read my lips, we-don't-all-want-to-be-Hikers. You said that people who's high point is riding theire bike must be leading to a pretty dull life; I think your life must be pretty dull if all you can do is sit around and make up these stupid assertions about a group of people who love to be in the forest as much as you do and have every right to bring their bike w/ them as much as you have take your boots, and a horseback rider to take is horse (that I might add weighs ten times that of bike and rider). And on a personal experience note, I've seen some trails pretty ravaged from Horse hooves that have done severe damage, but I don't hear you complaining about them, and neither am I. They have a right to be there as much as you, and I do. Oh, and on the issue of Mt. Biking teaching children bad wilderness etiquette....I'll have you know that my parents (both being Mt. Bikers) and everyone I have ever riden with in has always stressed the values of treading lightly to preserve our trails and forest. Thus, I have stressed it as well. I think you're making hasty generalizations about Mt. Bikers as a whole, based on the standards of a few negative representations of etiquette lacking riders. There are bad eggs in every group, be it cycling, hiking, or equestrian.
That's about all I'm going to say to you and your Hateful Old Hiker Assocation. At length, I could right several pages to answer all of your aforemetioned assertions, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who is as stubborn as you and has no wish to see otherwise, then that of his own view. Nor am I going to try and tell you hikers have any more or less right to be there. As I said, everybody has a fair right and privalege to our beautiful forests. If you ask me, cyclists, hikers and equestrians alike should be pooling their time, energy, and intelect together as wilderness lovers alike to solve more pressing issues destroying the forest, and work out our differences for the better of all. I mean c'mon, most of us are all there for our common love of the great outdoors.
 
R

R.White

Guest
Jim Roberts <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> R.White wrote:
>
> > Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
> >>Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004
> >>
> >>1. Why do people mountain bike?
> >>a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much
> >> farther, in the same amount of time, than they can by
> >> walking.
> >
> >
> > I have never said that, so right away you are lying.
>
> Again, a moron has shown his colors.

I can hear your ex-wife telling you that for sure.
 
P

Patzerseescheck

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:37:03 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
crawled out from under his rock in his "pure habitat" to spew out:

>On 7 Mar 2004 14:41:35 -0800, [email protected]
>(R.White) wrote:
>
>.Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>... .>
>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking .> Michael
>Vandeman, Ph.D. .> March 5, 2004 .> .> 1. Why do people
>mountain bike? .> a. They say that using a bike allows them
>to get much farther, in the same .> amount of time, than
>they can by walking. . .I have never said that, so right
>away you are lying.
>
>Where do you see the word "everyone"? Idiot.

I see it in your apparent ignorance of the proper use of the
english language. From Merriam-Webster (see entry 2):

Main Entry: they Pronunciation: '[th]A Function: pronoun,
plural in construction Etymology: Middle English, from Old
Norse their, masculine plural demonstrative & personal
pronoun; akin to Old English thæt that 1 a : those ones --
used as third person pronoun serving as the plural of he,
she, or it or referring to a group of two or more
individuals

an indefinite third person singular antecedent <everyone
knew where they stood -- E. L. Doctorow> <nobody has to go
to school if they don't want to -- N. Y. Times>
2 : PEOPLE 2 -- used in a generic sense <as lazy as they
come> usage They used as an indefinite subject (sense 2)
is sometimes objected to on the grounds that it does not
have an antecedent. Not every pronoun requires an
antecedent, however. The indefinite they is used in all
varieties of contexts and is standard. usage They,
their, them, themselves: English lacks a common-gender
third person singular pronoun that can be used to refer
to indefinite pronouns (as everyone, anyone, someone).
Writers and speakers have supplied this lack by using
the plural pronouns <and every one to rest themselves
betake -- Shakespeare> <I would have everybody marry if
they can do it properly -- Jane Austen> <it is too
hideous for anyone in their senses to buy -- W. H.
Auden>. The plural pronouns have also been put to use as
pronouns of indefinite number to refer to singular nouns
that stand for many persons <'tis meet that some more
audience than a mother, since nature makes them partial,
should o'erhear the speech -- Shakespeare> <a person
can't help their birth -- W. M.
Thackeray> <no man goes to battle to be killed. -- But they
Thackeray> do get
killed -- G. B. Shaw>. The use of they, their, them, and
themselves as pronouns of indefinite gender and indefinite
number is well established in speech and writing, even in
literary and formal contexts. This gives you the option of
using the plural pronouns where you think they sound best,
and of using the singular pronouns (as he, she, he or she,
and their inflected forms) where you think they sound best.

Therefore, it is safe to assume you are the idiot Mike. It
used to be fun, but now you are just a bore. Plonk.

Patzerseescheck

"What is hateful to you, do not to your freind. This is the
entire Torah. The rest is commentary. Go forth and learn."
Hillel the Elder, First Cent. B.C.E.
 
J

Jim Roberts

Guest
R.White wrote:

> Jim Roberts <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>R.White wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:<[email protected]>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
>>>>Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004
>>>>
>>>>1. Why do people mountain bike?
>>>>a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much
>>>> farther, in the same amount of time, than they can by
>>>> walking.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have never said that, so right away you are lying.

>>
>>Again, a moron has shown his colors.
>
>
> I can hear your ex-wife telling you that for sure.

Well, said, though I only know he's about 61, and so must be
a real champion mtn biker, and nothing about his "married"
life. His PhD thesis might have been suitable for a civics
essay in 8th grade, back before we respected different
races. He hasn't gotten back to me on my challenge to go to
a university library and read a couple of my papers. If he
ever dares to take a look at them, any sane person would
shut his yap, but then Mike isn't really sane.

Concerning 8th grade civics essays: some of you may have
heard this story before. We were told to write an essay on
how great it was to live in America (or the USSR or China,
take your pick). I wrote one from the POV of a young black
man, since most of my friends were black. It included quite
a number of hazards of such a life, including one my
classmates bragged about, getting an older teenager to drive
them through the black part of town (called ****ertown back
then) and whacking walkers with brooms. My mother and father
vetoed my essay, which I only gave them for a grammar
review. "We have a *position* in this town!!" My step-father
actually tore it into pieces.

*My* life in America had not been particularly happy, so I
took a page of the civics text with the same stupid theme
and just translated it using Roget's Thesaurus. I got an
award from the principal for this bit of phony nonsense.
Yes, Mike, I'm not above lying when I have no other choice.

jimbat
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 06:45:27 GMT, ManitouSHX <[email protected]>
wrote:

.God I can't believe I'm even going to allow myself to
get sucked into .this ridiculous situation. I'm not going
to entertain you with .responses to even half of your
absolutely ludicrous claims. But this is .what I will
say. You want to know something Vandeman? Read my lips,
we-don't-all-want-to-be- .Hikers.

Then be HONEST, and say that you want to mountain bike only
because you WANT to, NOT because you are being "excluded"
from the trails.

You said that people who's high point is riding theire
bike .must be leading to a pretty dull life; I think your
life must be pretty .dull if all you can do is sit around
and make up these stupid .assertions about a group of
people who love to be in the forest as much .as you do and
have every right to bring their bike w/ them as much as
.you have take your boots, and a horseback rider to take
is horse (that .I might add weighs ten times that of bike
and rider).

That is patently false, as decided in federal court years
ago: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10.htm. Bring a bike
is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.

And on a personal .experience note, I've seen some trails
pretty ravaged from Horse hooves .that have done severe
damage, but I don't hear you complaining about .them, and
neither am I. They have a right to be there as much as you,
.and I do.

NOBODY has a "right" to be there. It is a privilege, just
like driving a car on public roads. Only wildlife have a
RIGHT to be there, in their habitat.

Oh, and on the issue of Mt. Biking teaching children bad
.wilderness etiquette....I'll have you know that my parents
(both being .Mt. Bikers) and everyone I have ever riden
with in has always stressed .the values of treading lightly
to preserve our trails and forest.

What they DO is far more influential than what they SAY.
Even children can see through such hypocricy.

Thus, .I have stressed it as well. I think you're making
hasty generalizations .about Mt. Bikers as a whole, based
on the standards of a few negative .representations of
etiquette lacking riders.

I am not even talking about mountain BIKERS, but
mountain BIKING.

There are bad eggs in .every group, be it cycling, hiking,
or equestrian.

Where did you see me say ANYTHING about "bad eggs"? You are
fantasizing.

That's about all I'm .going to say to you and your Hateful
Old Hiker Assocation.

Your hate-mongering is duly noted.

At length, I .could right several pages to answer all of
your aforemetioned .assertions, but I'm not going to waste
my time arguing with someone who .is as stubborn as you and
has no wish to see otherwise, then that of .his own view.

I DO listen. That's why know so much about mountain biking.

Nor am I going to try and tell you hikers have any more .or
less right to be there. As I said, everybody has a fair
right and .privalege to our beautiful forests.

We have equal rights, but bringing a bike isn't one of them.

If you ask me, cyclists, hikers and .equestrians alike
should be pooling their time, energy, and intelect
.together as wilderness lovers alike to solve more pressing
issues .destroying the forest, and work out our differences
for the better of .all. I mean c'mon, most of us are all
there for our common love of the .great outdoors.

Love is as love DOES, hypocrite.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 

ManitouSHX

New Member
Mar 1, 2004
31
0
0
37
Originally posted by Mike Vandeman
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 06:45:27 GMT, ManitouSHX <[email protected]>
wrote:

..

I DO listen. That's why know so much about mountain biking.


You know absolutely nothing about Mt. Biking Vandeman. I've seen the picture on your site depicting Mt. Biking. What a poor representation. You dig for the worst things that you can find. That's not what even half of the riders look like when they're riding. You're washed up in all your pursuits. So this is the high point of your career is it? You insult me. You're an insult to every other rider here, and even to many hikers and other outdoor enthusiasts that I know. You have no respect for me (or people like me) and what I love to do. Thus, I have absolutely no respect for you. You can continue to post your mislead grievences here for everyone to read, but you'll never sway anyone. We don't care about you or your complaints. Just read the other comments from other readers. We love what we do, and we'll never quit. You've not influenced any of my thinking. Your assertsions and backup evidence are so outrageous that it is comical. What a joke. I'm done wasting my time with you. You bore me with you monotonous droning about the doom of the earth that is Mt. Biking. Good luck to you Dr. Vandeman. Go and do with your life as you please. I will continue with mine; riding, riding, riding, riding......
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:38:40 GMT, Patzerseescheck <[email protected]> wrote:

.On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:37:03 GMT, Mike Vandeman
<[email protected]> .crawled out from under his rock in
his "pure habitat" to spew out: . .>On 7 Mar 2004 14:41:35
-0800, [email protected] (R.White) wrote: .> .>.Mike
Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .>.>
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking .>.>
Michael Vandeman, Ph.D. .>.> March 5, 2004 .>.> .>.> 1. Why
do people mountain bike? .>.> a. They say that using a bike
allows them to get much farther, in the same .>.> amount of
time, than they can by walking. .>. .>.I have never said
that, so right away you are lying. .> .>Where do you see the
word "everyone"? Idiot. . . .I see it in your apparent
ignorance of the proper use of the english .language. From
Merriam-Webster (see entry 2): . .Main Entry: they
.Pronunciation: '[th]A .Function: pronoun, plural in
construction .Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse
their, masculine plural .demonstrative & personal pronoun;
akin to Old English thæt that .1 a : those ones -- used as
third person pronoun serving as the plural .of he, she, or
it or referring to a group of two or more individuals

.an indefinite third person singular antecedent <everyone
knew where .they stood -- E. L. Doctorow> <nobody has to go
to school if they .don't want to -- N. Y. Times> .2 : PEOPLE
2 -- used in a generic sense <as lazy as they come> .usage
They used as an indefinite subject (sense 2) is sometimes
.objected to on the grounds that it does not have an
antecedent. Not .every pronoun requires an antecedent,
however. The indefinite they is .used in all varieties of
contexts and is standard. .usage They, their, them,
themselves: English lacks a common-gender .third person
singular pronoun that can be used to refer to indefinite
.pronouns (as everyone, anyone, someone). Writers and
speakers have .supplied this lack by using the plural
pronouns <and every one to rest .themselves betake --
Shakespeare> <I would have everybody marry if .they can do
it properly -- Jane Austen> <it is too hideous for anyone
.in their senses to buy -- W. H. Auden>. The plural pronouns
have also .been put to use as pronouns of indefinite number
to refer to singular .nouns that stand for many persons
<'tis meet that some more audience .than a mother, since
nature makes them partial, should o'erhear the .speech --
Shakespeare> <a person can't help their birth -- W. M.
.Thackeray> <no man goes to battle to be killed. -- But they
do get .killed -- G. B. Shaw>. The use of they, their, them,
and themselves as .pronouns of indefinite gender and
indefinite number is well .established in speech and
writing, even in literary and formal .contexts. This gives
you the option of using the plural pronouns where .you think
they sound best, and of using the singular pronouns (as he,
.she, he or she, and their inflected forms) where you think
they sound .best. . . .Therefore, it is safe to assume you
are the idiot Mike. .It used to be fun, but now you are just
a bore. .Plonk. . .Patzerseescheck . ."What is hateful to
you, do not to your freind. This is the entire Torah. The
rest is commentary. Go forth and learn." .Hillel the Elder,
First Cent. B.C.E.

Actually, I have always gotten straight A's in English. I
use it correctly.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:14:06 GMT, Jim Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:

. . .R.White wrote: . .> Jim Roberts
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .>
.>>R.White wrote: .>> .>> .>>>Mike Vandeman
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .>>>
.>>> .>>>>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
.>>>>Michael Vandeman, Ph.D. .>>>>March 5, 2004 .>>>>
.>>>>1. Why do people mountain bike? .>>>>a. They say that
using a bike allows them to get much farther, in the same
.>>>>amount of time, than they can by walking. .>>> .>>>
.>>>I have never said that, so right away you are lying. .
.>> .>>Again, a moron has shown his colors. .> .> .> I can
hear your ex-wife telling you that for sure. . .Well, said,
though I only know he's about 61, and so must be a real
.champion mtn biker, and nothing about his "married" life.
His PhD .thesis might have been suitable for a civics essay
in 8th grade, back .before we respected different races. He
hasn't gotten back to me on my .challenge to go to a
university library and read a couple of my papers.
. If he ever dares to take a look at them, any sane person
would shut .his yap, but then Mike isn't really sane. .
.Concerning 8th grade civics essays: some of you may have
heard this .story before. We were told to write an essay
on how great it was to .live in America (or the USSR or
China, take your pick). I wrote one from .the POV of a
young black man, since most of my friends were black. It
.included quite a number of hazards of such a life,
including one my .classmates bragged about, getting an
older teenager to drive them .through the black part of
town (called ****ertown back then) and .whacking walkers
with brooms. My mother and father vetoed my essay, .which
I only gave them for a grammar review. "We have a
*position* in .this town!!" My step-father actually tore
it into pieces. . .*My* life in America had not been
particularly happy, so I took a page .of the civics text
with the same stupid theme and just translated it .using
Roget's Thesaurus. I got an award from the principal for
this bit .of phony nonsense. Yes, Mike, I'm not above
lying when I have no other .choice.

Learn to read news posts. That was R.White who made the
comment about lying.

.jimbat

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
R

R.White

Guest
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:14:06 GMT, Jim Roberts
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> . . .R.White wrote: . .> Jim Roberts
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>... .>
> .>>R.White wrote: .>> .>> .>>>Mike Vandeman
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>... .>>>
> .>>> .>>>>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
> .>>>>Michael Vandeman, Ph.D. .>>>>March 5, 2004 .>>>>
> .>>>>1. Why do people mountain bike? .>>>>a. They say that
> using a bike allows them to get much farther, in the same
> .>>>>amount of time, than they can by walking. .>>> .>>>
> .>>>I have never said that, so right away you are lying. .
> .>> .>>Again, a moron has shown his colors. .> .> .> I can
> hear your ex-wife telling you that for sure. . .Well,
> said, though I only know he's about 61, and so must be a
> real .champion mtn biker, and nothing about his "married"
> life. His PhD .thesis might have been suitable for a
> civics essay in 8th grade, back .before we respected
> different races. He hasn't gotten back to me on my
> .challenge to go to a university library and read a couple
> of my papers.
> . If he ever dares to take a look at them, any sane
> person would shut .his yap, but then Mike isn't really
> sane. . .Concerning 8th grade civics essays: some of
> you may have heard this .story before. We were told to
> write an essay on how great it was to .live in America
> (or the USSR or China, take your pick). I wrote one
> from .the POV of a young black man, since most of my
> friends were black. It .included quite a number of
> hazards of such a life, including one my .classmates
> bragged about, getting an older teenager to drive them
> .through the black part of town (called ****ertown back
> then) and .whacking walkers with brooms. My mother and
> father vetoed my essay, .which I only gave them for a
> grammar review. "We have a *position* in .this town!!"
> My step-father actually tore it into pieces. . .*My*
> life in America had not been particularly happy, so I
> took a page .of the civics text with the same stupid
> theme and just translated it .using Roget's Thesaurus.
> I got an award from the principal for this bit .of
> phony nonsense. Yes, Mike, I'm not above lying when I
> have no other .choice.
>
> Learn to read news posts. That was R.White who made the
> comment about lying.
>
But he knew you were the moron. DUH!
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On 13 Mar 2004 05:07:50 -0800, [email protected] (R.White) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .> On
Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:14:06 GMT, Jim Roberts
<[email protected]> wrote: .> .> . .> . .> .R.White
wrote: .> . .> .> Jim Roberts <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .> .>
.> .>>R.White wrote: .> .>> .> .>> .> .>>>Mike Vandeman
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... .> .>>>
.> .>>> .> .>>>>Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain
Biking .> .>>>>Michael Vandeman, Ph.D. .> .>>>>March 5, 2004
.> .>>>> .> .>>>>1. Why do people mountain bike? .> .>>>>a.
They say that using a bike allows them to get much farther,
in the same .> .>>>>amount of time, than they can by
walking. .> .>>> .> .>>> .> .>>>I have never said that, so
right away you are lying. .> . .> .>> .> .>>Again, a moron
has shown his colors. .> .> .> .> .> .> I can hear your ex-
wife telling you that for sure. .> . .> .Well, said, though
I only know he's about 61, and so must be a real .>
.champion mtn biker, and nothing about his "married" life.
His PhD .> .thesis might have been suitable for a civics
essay in 8th grade, back .> .before we respected different
races. He hasn't gotten back to me on my .> .challenge to go
to a university library and read a couple of my papers. .> .
If he ever dares to take a look at them, any sane person
would shut .> .his yap, but then Mike isn't really sane. .>
. .> .Concerning 8th grade civics essays: some of you may
have heard this .> .story before. We were told to write an
essay on how great it was to .> .live in America (or the
USSR or China, take your pick). I wrote one from .> .the POV
of a young black man, since most of my friends were black.
It .> .included quite a number of hazards of such a life,
including one my .> .classmates bragged about, getting an
older teenager to drive them .> .through the black part of
town (called ****ertown back then) and .> .whacking walkers
with brooms. My mother and father vetoed my essay, .> .which
I only gave them for a grammar review. "We have a *position*
in .> .this town!!" My step-father actually tore it into
pieces. .> . .> .*My* life in America had not been
particularly happy, so I took a page .> .of the civics text
with the same stupid theme and just translated it .> .using
Roget's Thesaurus. I got an award from the principal for
this bit .> .of phony nonsense. Yes, Mike, I'm not above
lying when I have no other .> .choice. .> .> Learn to read
news posts. That was R.White who made the comment about
lying. .> .But he knew you were the moron. DUH!

The fact that mountain bikers don't like me is one of my
best credentials. It proves I am on the right track.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 

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