Frozen aluminum nipples



R

RS

Guest
I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.
 
On Jan 8, 12:23 am, RS <[email protected]> wrote:
> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith14/17/14 spokes and
> aluminum nipples.  Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them butseveral nipples are frozen
> solid.  You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good.   Itried spraying in tri-flow and
> similiar materials but nothing.   Do I have to cut the frozen spokes outand replace or is there
> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them?  thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
> repair person.


Dear RS,

If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.

Even if there's a way to get your corroded aluminum nipples off
cleanly, your time is worth something, and you still have to get brass
nipples to replace them.

Sapim 14-17 double butted spokes in various lengths, $12.95 for a bag
of 20:
http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?i...l-and-Rim&tc=Spokes/14/17/Double-Butted&q=&s=
or http://tinyurl.com/2n6a4m

Brass nipples, $1.60 for a bag of 20:
http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=24393435553&c=Components&sc=Wheel-and-Rim&tc=Nipples/Brass
or http://tinyurl.com/2w2u3u

You can probably get a couple of spokes more quickly and maybe even
cheaper, given shipping charges, at a local bike shop.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
M

M-gineering

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 8, 12:23 am, RS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
>> aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
>> solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
>> similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
>> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
>> repair person.

>
> Dear RS,
>
> If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
> layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
> getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.



Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
your favor

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
 
J

jim beam

Guest
RS wrote:
> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
> aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
> solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
> similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
> repair person.
>


try gentle heat. if they've been thread-locked, it may work. using a
3-sided key rather than 2-sided like park helps too.
 
J

jim beam

Guest
M-gineering wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Jan 8, 12:23 am, RS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub,
>>> wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
>>> aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them
>>> but several nipples are frozen
>>> solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good.
>>> I tried spraying in tri-flow and
>>> similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes
>>> out and replace or is there
>>> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and
>>> I'm not an ace wheel builder or
>>> repair person.

>>
>> Dear RS,
>>
>> If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
>> layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
>> getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.

>
>
> Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
> your favor
>


that too.
 
L

landotter

Guest
On Jan 8, 2:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 8, 12:23 am, RS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
> > aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
> > solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
> > similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
> > something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
> > repair person.

>
> Dear RS,
>
> If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
> layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
> getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.
>
> Even if there's a way to get your corroded aluminum nipples off
> cleanly, your time is worth something, and you still have to get brass
> nipples to replace them.
>


Agreed. If the nips are chemically welded, trying to remove them is an
exercise in futility. Cut 'em out and start fresh.

> Sapim 14-17 double butted spokes in various lengths, $12.95 for a bag
> of 20:


Good spokes, great price.
 
S

still just me

Guest
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:19:21 -0800, jim beam
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
>> your favor
>>

>
>that too.


I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
of heat working. You could work from the rim side. Go light, heat is
probably not good for a rim.

The only penetrating oil that I've ever been able to document the
effect of is PB Blast. Not sure how well it works on aluminum.
 
K

Kenneth

Guest
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:49:24 GMT, still just me
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
>can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
>of heat working.


Howdy,

The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is about
40% greater than that of steel. Finding a way to heat just
the nipple would probably not matter much.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 
L

Leo Lichtman

Guest
"Kenneth" wrote: The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is about
> 40% greater than that of steel. Finding a way to heat just
> the nipple would probably not matter much.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The part of the nipple that is frozen to the spoke is in intimate contact
with it, and the contact area is large, due to the thread profile. So
trying to keep the spoke cooler than the nipple is probably futile. Besides
the 40% edge the aluminum has on expansion, is this: the corrosion that is
working against you is weakened by heat.

Spokes are not so expensive that you can justify a lot of effort to save
them. If you have a hard time bringing yourself to cut the spokes, do this:
Snap a pair of Vise-grips on the spoke, and then REALLY turn the nipple.
The
spoke will slip in the jaws and be damaged. It's a lot easier to snip a
damaged spoke. Or it will break off where it enters the nipple, and you
won't have to snip it. <G>
 
R

RS

Guest
Heat worked on virtually all of them, thank you. I also used a SpokeKey which
grabs on three sides.

Rick


In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
>RS wrote:
>> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub,

wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
>> aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but

several nipples are frozen
>> solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried

spraying in tri-flow and
>> similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and

replace or is there
>> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm

not an ace wheel builder or
>> repair person.
>>

>
>try gentle heat. if they've been thread-locked, it may work. using a
>3-sided key rather than 2-sided like park helps too.
 
J

jim beam

Guest
RS wrote:
> Heat worked on virtually all of them, thank you. I also used a SpokeKey which
> grabs on three sides.
>
> Rick


you're welcome.



>
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> RS wrote:
>>> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub,

> wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
>>> aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but

> several nipples are frozen
>>> solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried

> spraying in tri-flow and
>>> similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and

> replace or is there
>>> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm

> not an ace wheel builder or
>>> repair person.
>>>

>> try gentle heat. if they've been thread-locked, it may work. using a
>> 3-sided key rather than 2-sided like park helps too.

>
 
C

* * Chas

Guest
"still just me" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:19:21 -0800, jim beam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
> >> your favor
> >>

> >
> >that too.

>
> I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
> can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
> of heat working. You could work from the rim side. Go light, heat is
> probably not good for a rim.
>
> The only penetrating oil that I've ever been able to document the
> effect of is PB Blast. Not sure how well it works on aluminum.


The heat treating temperature for most aluminum alloys is around 400° F.
It's easy to exceed that temperature in a localized area of the rim with a
propane torch.

Cut them out, it's cheaper and easier.

Chas.
 
J

jim beam

Guest
* * Chas wrote:
> "still just me" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:19:21 -0800, jim beam
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
>>>> your favor
>>>>
>>> that too.

>> I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
>> can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
>> of heat working. You could work from the rim side. Go light, heat is
>> probably not good for a rim.
>>
>> The only penetrating oil that I've ever been able to document the
>> effect of is PB Blast. Not sure how well it works on aluminum.

>
> The heat treating temperature for most aluminum alloys is around 400� F.


yes, but for hours, not seconds. and the low temp stuff is for
precipitation, not solution. the minor local heating that will free a
spoke nipple will have no negative impact on a much larger, cold,
conductive rim. and if there were anything, it might even be positive.



> It's easy to exceed that temperature in a localized area of the rim with a
> propane torch.


one that burns 10lbs/hr?


>
> Cut them out, it's cheaper and easier.



it's certainly quicker, but for the pedants that /want/ to re-use, use a
small torch or cigarette lighter. or a soldering iron.
 
M

M-gineering

Guest
* * Chas wrote:

>
> The heat treating temperature for most aluminum alloys is around 400° F.
> It's easy to exceed that temperature in a localized area of the rim with a
> propane torch.



If you have difficulty when pointing the flame at distinguising between
nipple and rim, you should consider another hobby

--
/Marten (can't be @rsed to even take the tyre off) Gerritsen

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
 
J

John Smith

Guest
"RS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith
>14/17/14 spokes and
> aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but
> several nipples are frozen
> solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I
> tried spraying in tri-flow and
> similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out
> and replace or is there
> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm
> not an ace wheel builder or
> repair person.
>


I had this problem once myself, I left her and found a hot blooded woman,
now all is right with the world.
 
On Jan 8, 1:23 am, RS <[email protected]> wrote:
> I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith14/17/14 spokes and
> aluminum nipples.  Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them butseveral nipples are frozen
> solid.  You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good.   Itried spraying in tri-flow and
> similiar materials but nothing.   Do I have to cut the frozen spokes outand replace or is there
> something I can put on the nipples to loosen them?  thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
> repair person.


have you tried T-9 ? this chain lubricant work like magic.