Fuentes history

[Crankyfeet]

Fair point :

The entire sport is in a cleft stick on this issue.
And ultimately it's the UCI's doing.

Whatever issues many of us would have about the ethical behaviour of the riders doping - it has to be acknowledged that the UCI allowed the situation to arise where they turned a blind eye to doping.

As the UCI became exposed - and in order for it to protect itself - the UCI started to offer up a few sacrificial lambs in the form of riders.
This expedient attitude of the UCI only causes more problems for itself and the sport in the longrun, in my opinion.

You now have a growing number of riders currently being squealed on by the UCI.
You have a growing number of another set of banned/suspended riders by UCI
- some of who claim that the UCI knew that they were doping all along.
And all the while you have a set of bemused sponsors or who may not know the extent of doping and who are actively considering their own investment in the sport.
And top all of this - you have a general public perception that professional cycling is a haven for dopers/junkies.

if the same situation had arisen in any other sport - the body governing the sport and the people in power would be swept away.
As it is cycling is dying by 1,000 cuts.

Good post Lim.

In an ideal world, this problem would be solved expediently behind closed doors, with the UCI, the event owners, the sponsors, and the cyclists all at the table shaking hands. But unfortunately, the only way it seems that any progress can be made in ridding the sport of drugs, is through the threat of public executions.

Therein lies the dilemna. The disease of doping, that will eventually kill the sport in the long term, requires curative measures that could kill it in the short term.

 

[limerickman]

Good post Lim.

In an ideal world, this problem would be solved expediently behind closed doors, with the UCI, the event owners, the sponsors, and the cyclists all at the table shaking hands. But unfortunately, the only way it seems that any progress can be made in ridding the sport of drugs, is through the threat of public executions.

Therein lies the dilemna. The disease of doping, that will eventually kill the sport in the long term, requires curative measures that could kill it in the short term.

Thanks :

It was mentioned here a couple of months ago - that perhaps the only viable solution might be to declare an amnesty.
I tend to agree.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Thanks :

It was mentioned here a couple of months ago - that perhaps the only viable solution might be to declare an amnesty.
I tend to agree.

An amnesty on past doping might be fairer on cyclists, however it only protects pros from retroactive revelations like OP or if they are outed by a Sinkewitz for example. It doesn't protect the ongoing busts that have gained the most spectacular attention (because they are during events) like Flandis, Vino, Rasmussen etc.

And the real goal is to stop drug-taking going forward. An amnesty does little to achieve that IMHO.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Speaking of Oscar, whatever became of those videotapes that were said to be made of him and a few others involved in OP meeting with Fuentes?

Jaksche told me that the video he was allegedly seen on doesn't excist as he never was in that Building where the video was made (according to the Guardia). Jaksche also said that the Guardia Civil mada mistakes with the codenames. He told me he was Bella but not Jorge (although the Guardia claimed he was both). The same with Jan's dna. Not all the bags that were supposed to be his blood, matched with his dna (most did, but not all).

The problem is that OP did not developed further. The situation at the moment is deadly for the sport, the solution can't be that riders are banned for life without a verdict.

We know some people are guilty, but we also know there are mistakes in the papers that were leaked. As long as there are no normal sports court procedures you can never be sure who played what role in the scandal.

There are rules that riders are not allowed to dope. There are also rules how proceedings are after a guy gets caught. You can't ban a guy because he broke the rules in a way where the federations are breaking the rules themselves. Unless you want chaos...

 

[Bro Deal]

Speaking of Oscar, whatever became of those videotapes that were said to be made of him and a few others involved in OP meeting with Fuentes?

The are still being edited. All the Spanish football players, tennis players, and Olympic athletes need to be removed before they can be released.

 

[Bro Deal]

An amnesty on past doping might be fairer on cyclists, however it only protects pros from retroactive revelations like OP or if they are outed by a Sinkewitz for example. It doesn't protect the ongoing busts that have gained the most spectacular attention (because they are during events) like Flandis, Vino, Rasmussen etc.

And the real goal is to stop drug-taking going forward. An amnesty does little to achieve that IMHO.

Any amnesty needs to have full confessions. Everyone involved in the doping infrastructure, the doctors, the team managers, the traffickers, need to be exposed and probably excised from the sport.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Any amnesty needs to have full confessions. Everyone involved in the doping infrastructure, the doctors, the team managers, the traffickers, need to be exposed and probably excised from the sport.

Aren't excisions and amnesties mutually exclusive?

 

[Bro Deal]

Aren't excisions and amnesties mutually exclusive?

Can anyone really trust someone like Bruyneel to not go back to the old ways after an amnesty? I'm all for giving riders a pass if they admit the problem, but I am skeptical of others. There are some people who have seen every attempt to clean up the sport as an opportunity to benefit even more from doping. Allowing them to stay would be like allowing the wolf to stay in the henhouse.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Can anyone really trust someone like Bruyneel to not go back to the old ways after an amnesty? I'm all for giving riders a pass if they admit the problem, but I am skeptical of others. There are some people who have seen every attempt to clean up the sport as an opportunity to benefit even more from doping. Allowing them to stay would be like allowing the wolf to stay in the henhouse.

Its the whole system that needs to change, not just the main players. Its like Al Qaida. Knock off Bin Laden and some power hungry Bin Laden mini-me will be only too happy to take over with the added motivation of avenging his martyred former mentor (albeit with a lot less personal cash probably).

Its the system that needs to change. But unfortunately that requires the current people in power to lose a lot of power, to do what's right. There are only few examples in history where this has occurred. The Founding Fathers of the USA, and Gorbachev spring to mind as magnanimous benefactors, who once in power, fixed the system properly which reduced their influence.

 

[acpinto]

Yesterday i read a thing that makes me believe this is just a farce.

UCI is worried that some of the analysis carried on portuguese and spanish riders has given the impression that they might be blood dopping.

The same report said that the portuguese federation will improve their quantity off doping tests.

Same report congratulated FIFA for the reduction to only 5 cases of doping, being 2 off cannabis and most of atheletes in futsal, it continued stating FIFA conducted 1698 doping tests.
WOW! that must be 1 in every 1 000 or 10 000 pro players.

I think this is just a farce.
Imagine how much money it will be lost if all came clear.

BY the way how about the news on the Baseball?