Full-fat (natural) food

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by ray, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. ray

    ray Guest

    I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple of years ago
    recommending full fat (natural) food in place of reduced fat processed
    food as better for health and weight level. The change from the later
    to the former about five years ago resulted in weight loss with easy
    maintenance. Though weight is lower than optimum now, that can be
    attributed to structural weakness that doesn't allow much exercise.

    Fat preference is seasonal; virgin coconut oil in summer, butter and
    less frequently, EV olive oil, during the other seasons. 2-3 lbs.
    would be an average monthly consumption.

    Use often is generous. A half-liter of olive oil is planned to last
    three days. A few tablespoons are poured on every serving of grain
    bases meals. Three or four tablespoons of butter give a sauce-like fat
    texture to a sandwich that's a meal.

    About half the diet is whole, intact grain. Animal products are
    enjoyed for a small portion. Cholesterol was 139. There were problems
    with low blood sugar when younger but now 50; it was 79 after a 16
    hour fast.

    This is anecdotal evidence a macrobiotic-type grain-based diet is good
    for health and weight.

    Best,
    rjn
     
    Tags:


  2. Anecdotal evidence is not worth while.

    I notice you don't post anything about your
    serum cholesterol or triglycerides.

    "ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple of years ago
    > recommending full fat (natural) food in place of reduced fat processed
    > food as better for health and weight level. The change from the later
    > to the former about five years ago resulted in weight loss with easy
    > maintenance. Though weight is lower than optimum now, that can be
    > attributed to structural weakness that doesn't allow much exercise.
    >
    > Fat preference is seasonal; virgin coconut oil in summer, butter and
    > less frequently, EV olive oil, during the other seasons. 2-3 lbs.
    > would be an average monthly consumption.
    >
    > Use often is generous. A half-liter of olive oil is planned to last
    > three days. A few tablespoons are poured on every serving of grain
    > bases meals. Three or four tablespoons of butter give a sauce-like fat
    > texture to a sandwich that's a meal.
    >
    > About half the diet is whole, intact grain. Animal products are
    > enjoyed for a small portion. Cholesterol was 139. There were problems
    > with low blood sugar when younger but now 50; it was 79 after a 16
    > hour fast.
    >
    > This is anecdotal evidence a macrobiotic-type grain-based diet is good
    > for health and weight.
    >
    > Best,
    > rjn
     
  3. Hawki63

    Hawki63 Guest

    >> with low blood sugar when younger but now 50; it was 79 after a 16
    >> hour fast.


    your blood sugar is too low...which can be dangerous..ie fainting (at least the
    50 is way too low)...

    with blood sugar...too low is dangerous
    hawki.....
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, ray
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple of years ago
    > recommending full fat (natural) food in place of reduced fat processed
    > food as better for health and weight level.


    I use lots of eggs, about 2 pats of butter a day and some sunflower and
    olive oil. i make yogurt with whole goat's milk and use some cheese on
    a regular basis.

    Those are the recommended fats on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet for
    gastric diseases. I also control my weight fairly well and do not low
    carb strictly. it is self limiting because of the type of carbs I must
    select.

    --
    Diva
    *****
    The Best Man for the Job May Be A Woman
     
  5. Lictor

    Lictor Guest

    Sure, processed fats are bad, the typical US diet contains an amazing amount
    of trans fats (above 40g a day for some social categories!). The fact that
    it is becoming close to impossible to find real full fat butter with no
    additives in many places in the US is a clear sign that something is getting
    crazy about their diet. It seems everyone is on margarine (yuck) or "spread"
    (double-yuck) there - or cream cheese for those on the opposite direction.
    Same with milk, finding semi-milked milk with no additives (vitamins,
    calcium) instead of 1% or 1.5% was a core in NYC.
    However, I'm not sure going full force in the opposite direction is the
    right answer. Wisdom usually lies in moderation. I mean, my typical
    country's diet provides usually around 2.5g of trans fat a day, mainly from
    milk products (which come packaged with CLA) instead of hydrogenated oils
    (which come packaged with the worst kinds of trans fats). It also provide a
    reasonnable mix between saturated (butter, animal fat), mono-unsaturated
    (olive oil, duck fat) and poly-unsaturated fats (walnut oil). If I look at
    the statistics for heart disease, this seems to be a much better diet than
    the typical US one. I don't think you really need to drown your food in
    olive oil to achieve an healthy diet. I like the taste of olive oil
    (especially very fruity ones, like the ones from Spain), but I still like to
    get the tastes of the rest of the food along with it ;)
    I mean, half a liter of olive oil every three days! :-o You must be ruining
    yourself! That's pretty expensive oil... Besides, you should also mix oils.
    Typical Cretan diet is actually a mix between olive and walnut oil.

    "ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I posted a number of messages to Google Groups a couple of years ago
    > recommending full fat (natural) food in place of reduced fat processed
    > food as better for health and weight level. The change from the later
    > to the former about five years ago resulted in weight loss with easy
    > maintenance. Though weight is lower than optimum now, that can be
    > attributed to structural weakness that doesn't allow much exercise.
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>, Patricia Heil wrote:
    >
    > Anecdotal evidence is not worth while.
    >
    > I notice you don't post anything about your
    > serum cholesterol or triglycerides.


    Patricia, I get about 50% calories from fat, here is my cholesterol and
    triglycerides.

    2003 2004
    1 YEAR AGO NOW

    Total 177 175
    LDL 94 102
    HDL 41 56
    Triglyceride 207 83
    Fasting glucose 91 90
     
  7. rosie

    rosie Guest

    "Lictor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:40752f56$0$22882The fact that
    : ........................it is becoming close to impossible to find
    real full fat butter with no
    : additives in many places in the US is a clear sign that something
    is getting
    : crazy about their diet.


    sounds like you need to have a "heart to heart" with your local
    grocery store manager.
    there are PLENTY of unadulterated brands of butter available.

    rosie
    (from the dairy state)
     
  8. Crafting Mom

    Crafting Mom Guest

    In alt.support.diet Lictor <[email protected]> wrote:
    >it is becoming close to impossible to find real full fat butter with no
    >additives in many places in the US ...


    I can't speak for the united states, but real butter can be found in the
    dairy case here in Canada. Only ingredients being cream and salt.
    There is also unsalted butter as well.

    CM
     
  9. Lictor

    Lictor Guest

    "Crafting Mom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Even here in Canada, there are fillers, additives, dyes, refined sugars,
    > MSG, and other preservatives in EVERYthing. There is hardly such a
    > thing as real food anymore. I shop mostly the produce section and the
    > fish department. There are very few things you can find in a box that
    > don't have cheap fillers designed to feed on a junk-food addiction here
    > in North America.


    Eh, I actually do add MSG in my (some) food myself! ;)
    I mean, I'm not into bio food and all - though I do buy some bio products
    from time to time (like oil). But in cultures where over-eating is the norm,
    I find it crazy that we feel the need to add so much shit into our food. I
    mean, how on hell could I manage to have a deficit in anything with all the
    food I eat? Actually, I don't, last checkup showed calcium, iron and the
    rest are stuck at the upper bound, and I hadn't eaten healthy for a long
    while. How could anyone who is not on an unsafe diet or anorexic manage to
    have a deficit anywhere? Why should I drink milk with *added* calcium on top
    of that? I mean, there is such a thing as *too much* vitamins! Too much D
    vitamin is fatal, too much potassium is dangerous...
    Another problem is that you don't know how they have added all that stuff.
    Where is that D vitamin and calcium added in my milk comming from? Is it
    from animal products? Pure synthetized chemicals? GMO? With mad cow disease
    and all, I would really like to know where all this comes from...
    Finally, the problem is that it's stuff that is supposed to be in there in
    the first place. Milk is naturally rich in vitamins and calcium. So, first
    they pump the cow with so much shit that they produce worthless milk, then
    they process that food in such a way that whatever might be left is utterly
    destroyed, and *then*, they add tons of chemicals to bring back what should
    have been there to start with.

    The truth is that you can even *taste* it. I mean, I spent my holidays near
    a farm last spring, and the farmer was nice enough to give us free eggs.
    OMG! This was like I had never tasted eggs in my life! I mean, the taste was
    almost *too* strong. Same with his unprocessed milk, it was actually hard to
    adjust to how strong (and creamy) it tastes. Same with chicken, the
    difference between industrial chicken and traditionnally grown chicken is
    amazing - in taste, texture, aroma... No wonder people eat so much when most
    of the food has no taste...
     
  10. Lictor

    Lictor Guest

    "Jayjay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:51:20 +0200, "Lictor" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > I'm sorry - NY and SanFran do NOT represent the majority of the US.
    > They certainly do not represent "typical" america.


    Actually, NYC was already a lot better than SF. At least, buying quality
    greens and meat was very easy there. Of course, things might be twisted by
    the fact that I expect my next door supermarket to carry everything I need.
    Maybe out of city supermarkets did carry what I needed.

    > And to counter that - I recently spent 3 weeks outside the US and
    > found that the grocery stores in the countries I visited had just as
    > many products that were "low fat" or "low carb" related as we do in
    > the US.


    Oh, yes, we DO have all these now. Though at least weight watcher has just
    launched a line that is low fat regular carb, instead of both being low...
    The new trend also seems to be reasonnably reduced products, like yogourt
    with +25% fruits and -20% sugar.
    It's actually pretty interesting to watch people's baskets. Most mix diet
    food like that and pâté, sausages, ham... It's like people (like me), who
    drink diet coke along with their BigMac and kingsized French fries...

    > You obviously were not looking in the right places. Once again, our
    > stores carry a large variety. My mayo/mw jars I buy are the smaller
    > 8oz jars. In the summers I will switch to a 16oz jar in order to make
    > salads (cole slaw or potatoe) that my husband enjoys on occasion.


    .... converting to meaningfull metric units...
    8oz would be medium size to me, 16oz is *large*!
    Portions are still much larger in your country than here. I mean,
    restaurants were impressive. I have always been a heavy eater, but the USA
    is the only country in the world where I didn't manage to finish what I was
    served at the restaurant. Yet, by looking at nearby people, I noticed some
    actually managed. Even if I only took the main dish, finishing was not
    possible. The plus side is that once I managed to get passed the shame
    associated with asking for a doggy bag (huge cultural issue here) I managed
    to make two meals out of a single visit to the restaurant. Or to take a
    single meal for myself and my girlfriend (against, once I got past the shame
    of asking that).

    > Yes, we do have alot of "bulk" items, and since we have things called
    > refridgerators and freezers, as well as cupboards for dry storage,
    > then we can purchase in larger quantities to store at home instead of
    > making daily trips to the grocery.


    Errr... I do have all these things as well ;)
    It's just that there's no unlimited room in there. If I put gallons of stuff
    that will last me for the next couple of years, it's eating up a lot of
    room...

    > In my lifestyle we make a weekly trip to the grocery to pick up milk,
    > bread, lunch meats, and fresh meats and veggies. Otherwise, we tend
    > to go 3 to 4 weeks between grocery visits for picking the bulk of our
    > needs.


    I used to do the same, though it's rather a weekly trip, and some visits in
    between for some stuff. The fact that I have 4 supermarkets within 5 walking
    minutes of home helps. The point is that even what you call a small jar of
    ketchup or mayonnaise will last me months. Ice cream is not something I
    stock up on, if I want to eat some, I just buy whatever I will eat. Noone
    here would even see the point of having a whole bucket of ice cream taking
    up valuable room in the freezer...

    > Most of our meats we even puchase and freeze, the only fresh meat I
    > tend to eat is the occasional steak.


    I have begun to do this, though I still somehow find a better taste to fresh
    meat.

    > So, unfortunately, IMO, you got a raw deal and a poor image of the US
    > when you were here.


    Actually, not that poor, I was at least surprised at how easy it was to find
    vegetables in NYC. I had read Americans complaining about how hard it was in
    some cities.
    But I'm still trying to explain how your country manages to achieve that
    obesity level. I think the size of the servings and the obsession with diets
    might be part of the answer. And the fact that these large packages, along
    with bigger sized US fridges, imply that mostly everyone has a large supply
    of food at home for bingeing.
     
  11. Jayjay

    Jayjay Guest

    On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:19:08 +0200, "Lictor" <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    >Actually, not that poor, I was at least surprised at how easy it was to find
    >vegetables in NYC. I had read Americans complaining about how hard it was in
    >some cities.
    >But I'm still trying to explain how your country manages to achieve that
    >obesity level. I think the size of the servings and the obsession with diets
    >might be part of the answer. And the fact that these large packages, along
    >with bigger sized US fridges, imply that mostly everyone has a large supply
    >of food at home for bingeing.
    >


    OK, there are some facts that are true here. In general, serving
    sizes are supersized. Its only on very rare occasions that I ever
    finish a whole meal at a restaurant. Heck, I'd be happy with what is
    considered a "house salad" or side salad and some meat. But, that's
    just me.

    Quite often DH and I will go out to eat and I'll get just the side
    salad and pick off of his meal. That works best for us. And if the
    restaurant complains - then they can kiss my butt. :)

    But, we also found very large portions on our trip to NZ and AU
    recently. Many times there, I would leave food behind to be thrown
    out. Frankly, I was a bit surprised to find such similarities while
    travelling abroad, because I expected different after all we hear and
    see on the media.

    Anyhow - for many of us, yes, supersize is available, but that doesn't
    mean we eat it. I choose to eat in my own portion range. But hey -
    that's me, and that's why I'm not obese. :)
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>, Jayjay wrote:
    > OK, there are some facts that are true here. In general, serving
    > sizes are supersized. Its only on very rare occasions that I ever


    In Switzerland, serving sizes that I observed at some restaurants,
    were not just supersized, they were hypersized. Completely enormous
    plates were served with huge piles of food.

    i
     
  13. Lictor

    Lictor Guest

    "Jayjay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > But, we also found very large portions on our trip to NZ and AU
    > recently. Many times there, I would leave food behind to be thrown
    > out. Frankly, I was a bit surprised to find such similarities while
    > travelling abroad, because I expected different after all we hear and
    > see on the media.


    Sorry, to sound harsh, but to most of the world, (Canada, USA, Autralia, New
    Zealand) is some kind of single composite country with just little funny
    differences in between ;) I mean, language is the same, food is pretty
    close, eating habits are close... Errr.. I hope my Canadian friend won't
    read that, how she will make me suffer an horrifying death...

    > Anyhow - for many of us, yes, supersize is available, but that doesn't
    > mean we eat it. I choose to eat in my own portion range. But hey -
    > that's me, and that's why I'm not obese. :)


    But supersize still sets a kind of norm. If you are served a plate at a
    restaurant, its size sets the norm of what is acceptable. The problem many
    obese face is that they have their reference system completely messed up.
    They have no idea of what hunger, satiety mean. Many actually do not know
    any more what a normal human being eats. I'm not even speaking of the ones
    who haven't eaten a normal meal for years (you know, sitting down, in a
    plate instead of right from the pot, in a social context...). These people
    will eat whatever is given to them, and there supersized servings really
    don't really help. Their only limit is the total amount of food their
    stomach can contain, and stomach is very elastic.
    For myself, my norm was set by the servings at French restaurants, which are
    not as small as some Americans seem to think, but definately not supersized.
    So, the servings in the US seemed enormous to me (well, they actually are).
    Now that I have tried to adjust myself, I tend to find that the servings in
    the French restaurants have suddently grown bigger than my appetite. It
    still feels slightly weird to have food left in my plate once I'm done.
     
  14. Jayjay

    Jayjay Guest

    On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:24:16 +0200, "Lictor" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >"Jayjay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >
    >Sorry, to sound harsh, but to most of the world, (Canada, USA, Autralia, New
    >Zealand) is some kind of single composite country with just little funny
    >differences in between ;) I mean, language is the same, food is pretty
    >close, eating habits are close... Errr.. I hope my Canadian friend won't
    >read that, how she will make me suffer an horrifying death...
    >


    Yes, I learned that on my trip. I was amazed as I was expecting
    otherwise... but it is very true how similar things are between many
    of these countries.

    Then again, its also a very small world. In Sydney we were standing
    in line to go to a restaurant and the couple behind us noticed our
    accent. They asked where we were from in the states. When we told
    them the woman asked what town, and it turns out, she grew up in our
    town and was over in Sydney for school, met a guy and they were now
    engaged.

    Its odd to be 1/2 way across the world and meet someone from your own
    town that now lives in this other country.


    >For myself, my norm was set by the servings at French restaurants, which are
    >not as small as some Americans seem to think, but definately not supersized.
    >So, the servings in the US seemed enormous to me (well, they actually are).
    >Now that I have tried to adjust myself, I tend to find that the servings in
    >the French restaurants have suddently grown bigger than my appetite. It
    >still feels slightly weird to have food left in my plate once I'm done.
    >


    This bring somethign else up. In the US, it also depends on the type
    and quality of restaurant you go to. Should you go to a French
    restaurant - the higher quality have the smaller meals, more "gourmet"
    type meals, but the lower quality French will serve you tons of food.

    The higher quality restaurant you go to, the smaller the portions tend
    to be.

    Now, I'm not talkign about your typical "steak house" as I have yet to
    find one - no matter the price range, that actually has normal
    portions. Hell - a 12oz porterhouse is not a single serving to me...
    I'll take 1/4 of that, thank you.
     
  15. Crafting Mom

    Crafting Mom Guest

    In alt.support.diet Lictor <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >The truth is that you can even *taste* it. I mean, I spent my holidays near
    >a farm last spring, and the farmer was nice enough to give us free eggs.
    >OMG! This was like I had never tasted eggs in my life!


    I agree!

    I spent six years living on a farm, and was completely spoiled by the
    fresh eggs I used to eat from there. They had about a dozen hens and
    there is just nothing like those eggs! Supermarket eggs are *nothing*
    compared to home-raised eggs! Same thing with the milk from the farm
    next door (we often traded eggs for milk), the cream skimmed from the
    top was incredible! The milk was beyond this world.

    Going into the produce section of the supermarket these days and seeing
    all the poor-quality veggies is sad compared to what I ate those 6 years
    on the farm. Home grown cucumbers and zucchini were my favorite
    vegetables. And we had fresh apples off the tree. Apples ripened right
    on the tree are like nothing else.

    >amazing - in taste, texture, aroma... No wonder people eat so much when most
    >of the food has no taste...


    I agree. Food simply isn't food anymore around here.
    CM
     
  16. Lictor wrote:
    >
    > The fact that
    > it is becoming close to impossible to find real full fat butter with no
    > additives in many places in the US is a clear sign that something is getting
    > crazy about their diet.


    I've lived in the US all of my life but a few trips. I do not recall
    a single grocery store that did not stock regular butter, regular
    vegitables, regular, and so on. Sure, plenty of space is dedicated
    to junk food but that is different from thinking stores do not carry
    real food.

    > It seems everyone is on margarine (yuck) or


    Chuckle. I was raised on margarine because at the time people believed
    it was better for health. The data turned out to be wrong but since I
    had it as a child I prefer the flavor of margarine over butter. Shrug.
    I use real butter anyways. It's fine. ;^)

    > "spread" (double-yuck) there


    What IS it with "spread"? Velveeta is fake stuff so revolting it is
    illegal to call it cheese. "Spread" is fake stuff so revolting it
    is illegal to even call it margarine!

    > However, I'm not sure going full force in the opposite direction is the
    > right answer. Wisdom usually lies in moderation.


    Moderation is not equality, though. The best solution is more like
    95% natural foods and 5% fake foods than like 50-50.
     
  17. Lictor

    Lictor Guest

    "Jayjay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > This bring somethign else up. In the US, it also depends on the type
    > and quality of restaurant you go to. Should you go to a French
    > restaurant - the higher quality have the smaller meals, more "gourmet"
    > type meals, but the lower quality French will serve you tons of food.


    Actually, here, "lower quality" probably means traditionnal or real French
    food. The kind you can find in famillies or traditionnal food restaurants
    here. And yes, that is what used to be popular or peasant food, so its main
    point is to feed you. Again, this seems to be some idea some Americans have
    about French food that it's all about light food. Lousiana cooking evolved
    partly from traditionnal French food, and it's not exactly lightweight food
    ;) The roux they use is a stepping stone of traditionnal French cooking
    (except noone here would even think of buying powdered roux, it's a matter
    of nationnal pride). Many traditionnal dishes involve stuff like beans
    cooked in duck fat, sauerkraut cooked in lard fat, crêpe with plenty of
    butter or vegetables with tons of olive oil. Not very lightweight (but still
    healthy food).
    High quality French food in the US often appears to be "nouvelle cuisine",
    which is something most French will never actually eat, because it has a
    kind of bad reputation here ("they serve you micro-meals that keeps you
    hungry") and is not that trendy anymore and has evolved (latest trend would
    be fusion food, like Asian-French or Indian-French). The funny part is that
    "nouvelle cuisine" was very inspired by Californian cuisine, which also
    evolved into fusion style.

    > The higher quality restaurant you go to, the smaller the portions tend
    > to be.


    Well, they do know how hunger and satiety work. The more hungry you are, the
    tastier the food will feel. Keeping you hungry throughout the meal is the
    best way to make sure you taste it to its fullest.
    If I go to a cheap traditionnal restaurant, I expect to get fed good stuff.
    If I go to a very expensive restaurant, I expect to be surprised by exotic
    tastes - and that works better if I'm hungry.

    > Now, I'm not talkign about your typical "steak house" as I have yet to
    > find one - no matter the price range, that actually has normal
    > portions. Hell - a 12oz porterhouse is not a single serving to me...
    > I'll take 1/4 of that, thank you.


    Same experience here. I was also surprised by exotic restaurants. They tend
    to have reasonnable portions here, but not so in the USA.
     
  18. SnugBear

    SnugBear Guest

    "Lictor" wrote:

    > Actually, NYC was already a lot better than SF. At least, buying
    > quality greens and meat was very easy there. Of course, things might
    > be twisted by the fact that I expect my next door supermarket to carry
    > everything I need. Maybe out of city supermarkets did carry what I
    > needed.


    Can anybody imagine Martha screaming at this? Good thing she's out of
    the country ;-)

    --
    Walking on . . .
    Laurie in Maine
    207/110 60 inches of attitude!
    Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03
     
  19. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    Lictor wrote:

    > The fact that it is becoming close to impossible
    > to find real full fat butter with no additives in many places
    > in the US is a clear sign that something is getting
    > crazy about their diet.


    And have you noticed eggs? It's really hard to see
    without a Radio Shack pocket microscope, but there's
    a thin seam that goes all the way around the shell.
    They're being made in factories now, no chickens
    required. The yolks are colored yellow with
    coal tar dye! :)
     
  20. >Lictor wrote:
    >
    >> The fact that it is becoming close to impossible
    >> to find real full fat butter with no additives in many places
    >> in the US is a clear sign that something is getting
    >> crazy about their diet.

    >
    >And have you noticed eggs? It's really hard to see
    >without a Radio Shack pocket microscope, but there's
    >a thin seam that goes all the way around the shell.
    >They're being made in factories now, no chickens
    >required. The yolks are colored yellow with
    >coal tar dye! :)
    >
    >


    What is even worse is that Kentucky Fried Chicken changed its name to KFC
    because what they are serving is so processed & genetically modified that it
    cannot be legally called chicken.
     
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