Full list of dope suspects published

[limerickman]

When the lie spreads( everyone doesn´t dope - past years) then you can´t break the news that everyone dopes, you have to try to clean up calmly having some riders penalised as an example.

I do not agree with this procedure but i think that is required for the dollars to keep entering the machine (pro-tour).

Agreed.

And this is where this sport is snookered, because the UCI cannot manage to ween itself from that particular ***.


Hein Verbruggen let the cat out of the bag at the 1999 Paris-Roubaix when he responded to the point about cycling being in trouble following Festina in 1998
"the television viewing figures for P-R were far higher than (some ATP tournament that same weekend)......cycling suffered after 98 TDF but the sport is on the right track now.....the TV viewing figures prove this to me".

In a nutshell Verbruggens statement sums up the UCI's attitude.
Bums on seats.

And if this means riders having to dope to the gills to go faster and faster, the UCI will always turn a blind eye.

 

[whiteboytrash]

The UCI reminds me of bouncers at a rave party. Everyone knows that kids go to raves to pops "e's" and dance all night and get off their respective nuts... however the raves would be shutdown if the owner of each rave stated that drug use was prevalent. Therefore each rave has bouncers on the front door checking the pockets of each person for drugs. If drugs are found the party goer in ejected, drugs confiscated and police called every so often to prove the point that they are catching people. However everyone knows that when you take drugs to a rave you hide them in your underwear or shoes. The bouncers will never look their and of course they are not going to out their hands down the front of a girls knickers to look for drugs ! The raves go on, people take drugs, enjoy themselves and the organisers can say they are doing something. So like cycling, all the riders know how to get away with drug use and to dodge the tests, with only a few getting caught every couple of years. The big busts have come from the police with Puerto and BALCO. The UCI will continue to pretend by kicking the **** of guys like Hamilton that they are actually doing something. The UCI are not serious because if they were it would shut down their very existence. No organisation is that stupid.

Agreed.

And this is where this sport is snookered, because the UCI cannot manage to ween itself from that particular ***.


Hein Verbruggen let the cat out of the bag at the 1999 Paris-Roubaix when he responded to the point about cycling being in trouble following Festina in 1998
"the television viewing figures for P-R were far higher than (some ATP tournament that same weekend)......cycling suffered after 98 TDF but the sport is on the right track now.....the TV viewing figures prove this to me".

In a nutshell Verbruggens statement sums up the UCI's attitude.
Bums on seats.

And if this means riders having to dope to the gills to go faster and faster, the UCI will always turn a blind eye.

 

[whiteboytrash]

The state prosecutor involved in the Spanish investigation into a sports doping ring has said he will urge the investigating judge to call all the cyclists implicated in the case to testify before him.

"We would like all of the cyclists to appear as witnesses before the judge so that we can get as many details about the case as possible," a spokesman for the prosector said on Thursday.

"The cyclists are not being accused of any crime themselves, but we want them to provide witness testimony over the course of the next month or so."

Over 50 cyclists, including 1997 Tour de France champion Jan Ullrich and Giro d'Italia winner Ivan Basso have been linked with the investigation, which came to light when the Spanish Civil Guard raided addresses in Madrid and Zaragoza in May.

They found large quantities of anabolic steroids, equipment used for blood transfusions and more than 100 bags of frozen blood as well as detailed training plans specifying the use of banned substances. Doping is not a criminal offence in Spain, but the doctor at the centre of the case, Eufemiano Fuentes, has been accused of offences against public health and is expected to be brought to trial

 

[jhuskey]

Not much in the developing story since by testifying against and or implicating Fuentes cyclist would implicate themselves and visa versa.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Not much in the developing story since by testifying against and or implicating Fuentes cyclist would implicate themselves and visa versa.

Correct. With the 7 riders that already agreed to cooperate there is a deal that they don't have to say anything about other cyclists....

Edit: my spelling

 

[whiteboytrash]

Correct. With the 7 riders that already agreed to cooperate there is a deal that they don't have to say anything about other cyclists....

Edit: my spelling

Who are 7 cyclists you speak of ? Mancebo etc. ?

 

[fbircher]

You see it’s not for Basso or Ullrich to provide the scientific evidence that they didn't dope it’s for the UCI/federations to provide the scientific, ironclad, watertight evidence that they did dope. In real world terms would you come forward and provide your blood to the police to check if they could match it against a bloody knife found in a random park ? Of course not. Its up to them to find the match ! Imagine if you walked through that park everyday would you still come forward and provide a sample ? Of course not. It’s your basic human right not to. Federations need to prove that Ullrich and Basso's blood is those bags. It’s not for Basso and Ullrich to prove their blood isn't in those bags. Whilst there is doubt there is no need for science or DNA. Case closed. As soon as the Italian and Swiss federations hand the case back to the UCI, Ullrich and Basso will launch their cases to CAS to have their licences reinstated.

You ask if I would be willing to volunteer for a DNA test. Here are the factors on which I would base my answer:



1. Ullrich says he never even met Fuentes, let alone set foot in Fuentes’ lab or donated any bags of blood to him. Assume this is true.

2. No combination of blood samples from other people could be “genetically combined” to form a DNA pattern that matches mine. In other words, the only way for my DNA to match anything in Fuentes’ lab is if one of those bags actually includes my blood.

3. A laboratory-certified, non-match of my DNA to doped blood - speculatively attributed to me - will clear my name from the list of suspected dopers in OP.

4. Removal of my name as a suspect will not only dispel doubts within my own fan base, but also demonstrate to an increasingly cynical public that not all cyclists are dopers, and not all allegations of doping are true.



Assuming all the above are true, I answer your question – although I realize it was probably rhetorical – by stating that I absolutely would submit to a voluntary DNA test. It’s not about what the law compels me to do or even what the bylaws of cycling organizations compel me to do, but what I would actually do, for myself, my fans and my sport.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Who are 7 cyclists you speak of ? Mancebo etc. ?

It's unknown who they are but the Spanish police has confirmed that 7 riders whoa are on the Fuentes list are cooperating with them and that there is a deal with the prosecution that they don't have to tell anything about other cyclists.

 

[cyclingheroes]

French anti-doping boss: suspicious...:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10833.0.html

 

[cyclingheroes]

Mountainbiker Hermida is allowed to start again (he was on the Fuentes list):

http://magazine.web.de/de/themen/sport/sportmix/radsport/2880274.html

 

[fbircher]

The following excerpt is taken from a cyclingnews.com article this morning (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/sep06/sep08news ):

.............

Furthermore, a German public prosecutor in Bonn has also sent a request for judicial assistance to the Madrid-based court last week, asking them to allow German police officers to collect samples of the two blood bags found during the course of the investigation, which allegedly contain Jan Ullrich's and Oscar Sevilla's blood. It is understood that they will be used as pieces of evidence if DNA testing proves the allegations true.

According to Spanish sources, a minimum of seven implicated riders are already willing to give evidence on the details of the doping practices which were good business for Fuentes and his assistants. The secret of investigation will be reportedly be maintained on the testimonials.

The Spanish prosecutor also wants to give all of the riders linked to the affair the possibility to prove that they are innocent, by undergoing a blood DNA test and comparing the results to the samples found in the 153 blood bags seized by the Guardia Civil. The investigation is said to be extended into the sports of athletics and football soon, as the judge has reason to believe that the doping network not only concerned cycling.

............

This could get interesting. We may get to see some DNA test results after all. I believe that publication of even a few laboratory-certified, high-profile (e.g., Ullrich, Basso) non-matches would do a tremendous amount of good for the sport of cycling. Positive matches would be yet another PR blow, but better in the long run than lingering rumors and suspicions.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Intresting book about doping, the doping maffia and the prevention of doping (in German):

http://www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=3538

 

[whiteboytrash]

Bradley Wiggens is interviewed in this months doping special of Cycle Sport magazine. He said that Jen Voight had made a pact with the peleton that if Tyler Hamilton returned after his ban that they would put him to the back of the peleton and not let him race.... he went on to say that if Landis gets off Jens will probably do the same with him. The tide has turned....

 

[weremichael]

Bradley Wiggens is interviewed in this months doping special of Cycle Sport magazine. He said that Jen Voight had made a pact with the peleton that if Tyler Hamilton returned after his ban that they would put him to the back of the peleton and not let him race.... he went on to say that if Landis gets off Jens will probably do the same with him. The tide has turned....

I love it! Jens is truly my hero!

 

[cyclingheroes]

I wrote in the Ullrich thread that i don't even care anymore if Ullrich is guilty or not. One of the reasons is this article:

http://www.sport1.at/coremedia/generator/id=3445256.html

No sanctions agains Jaksche (although he was on a video with Fuentes)

Somehow one person is being hunted, the others will probebly walk.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Intresting story about manipulating doping probes from Donati (the man who is leading the Basso hearings in Italy):

http://www.playthegame.org/Knowledge%20bank/Articles/Anti_doping%20%20the%20Fraud%20Behind%20the%20Stage.aspx

Anna Maria Di Terlizzi, a young 100m hurdler I had been training for a few years, was tested positive for caffeine on February 7th 1997, after an indoor competition. The caffeine level found in the urine sample was very high, nearly double the value established by IOC.



When the girl told me what had happened, I asked if she had taken any medicament. She answered she was on the pill, but had not taken nothing except a cappuccino at breakfast and a cup of coffee after lunch, but the competition had taken place hours later, in the evening. The caffeine value found in the urine sample corresponded to about thirty cups of coffee taken at the same time.



After a week, the second sample of urine was tested in the presence of an expert of our choice.


Right at the beginning, the Head of the Rome Anti-doping Laboratory asked our expert if he chose the normal testing procedure, which would last several hours, or the shortened procedure. The expert was very surprised and answered, that it was, of course, necessary to repeat exactly the procedure used for the first test, the one that had proved positive.



Before the end of the qualitative analysis, the Head of the Laboratory asked our expert if he wanted to go out for a cup of coffee. He refused and noticed that the Head of the Laboratory and his collaborators were becoming increasingly nervous. When the qualitative analysis was over, the result was astounding: no caffeine peak at all!



The expert called me on his cellular phone; I had been waiting for that call all morning and the news left me breathless; but I still couldnt believe it. I asked how long it would take to have the results of the quantitative analysis; about an hour, he said. That hour seemed never to end. At last he called me with the results; Anna Maria's urine sample contained the traces of one cappuccino and one cup of coffee.


At last, it dawned on me; they had prepared an ambush, the worst possible one: they had tried to destroy my reputation, my credibility. I realised then that I had been dealing with really malicious people.

 

[Bro Deal]

Intresting story about manipulating doping probes from Donati...

I don't give much credence to all the French conspiracy clap trap, but I have been somewhat suspicious of the UCI for awhile. For example, Rumsas goes through the Tour using enough gear to fuel an entire team and never tests positive. His wife gets caught with the goods, but there is no way to sanction Rumsas. The next time Rumsas shows up to a GT he just happens to test positive for EPO. On one hand you might say he got caught because he was doping, but it makes me wonder why he suddenly got sloppy about it.

It used to be that you would not hear about positives until months had passed since the initial test. That always made me wonder what type of decisions were being made in back rooms and how many positives never saw the light of day.

Going back to Rumsas I wonder why he is not on a real team. It has been more than three years. I suspect that there is pressure being applied by the UCI or GTs.

Then you have the UCI bending over backwards to protect Armstrong. There is the Olympic test of Hamilton that was initially negative until it is reevaluated and, perhaps, the criteria used to decide whether it was positive adjusted.

It is not that I do not believe that the people caught are really doping. I think nearly all the pros are on something. But it is more that I cannot help but think there is sort of a clique where the cool kids get a pass and the outsiders get dumped on. If you embarrass the clique, you become an outsider.

 

[cyclingheroes]

German media and Eurosport finally report that Valverde is on the Fuentes list. In the print edition of the Süddeutsche Zeitung there is a story about the Spanish cycling federation: they tried to hold Valverde out of the line of fire... He was supposed to be the new heroe at the Tour after Basso and Ullrich were suspended by their teams. According the Süddeutsche there was a homestory about Valverde in the Spanish newspaper AS were Valverde stated that the name of his dog is Piti. The Süddeutsche also said there was a kind of national Spanish alliance and that this was the reason that El Pais published several names but not Valverdes name. Valverde was mentioned as VALV (Piti) on the 38 pages that led to the team suspension of Ullrich, Basso and the others.


http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_385565.html

Edit: Eurosport link http://www.eurosport.de/radsport/vuelta-a-espana/2006/sport_sto965372.shtml

Ok, i can re-write my story again....

 

[bobke]

Valverde on the list back where he belongs.
I have said this ever since I saw him stay with Armstrong and sprint past him on Courchevel.
And it was certainly confirmed when Valv, a sprinter and climber, suddenly time trials with the best in the world like Millar and Vino in the first TT of the Vuelta.

His performances and associations like Kelme, Mancebo etc all paint a clear picture.
No surprises here.

 

[cynic]

His performances and associations like Kelme, Mancebo etc all paint a clear picture.
No surprises here.

Similar to this clear picture:

1994 - Armstrong continues to make his mark in the European peloton with Motorola, but wins no significant races and fails to finish the Tour de France for the second year running.

1995 - Armstrong wins the Tour DuPont in the United States, and five stages. At the Tour de France however tragedy strikes his Motorola team when team-mate Fabio Casartelli crashes and dies on a descent of the Col de Portet d'Aspet. Armstrong goes on to win a stage, and dedicates it to the fallen Italian. Armstrong finishes the race for the first time at 36th place overall, and finishes off the season by winning the San Sebastian one-day Classic in Spain.

1999 - Missing the injured Jan Ullrich, who goes on to win the Tour of Spain later that season, Armstrong goes on to claim four stages, and win his first Tour with a lead of seven minutes 37 seconds on Switzerland's Alex Zulle after wearing the yellow jersey for the race's last 12 days