Gallbladder Flush Worked For Me

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Bew, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. Bew

    Bew Guest

    Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out there , the one that worked for
    me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had great success with it and got
    rid of hundreds of stones as did others I know . I do the flush at least twice a year . I have gone
    from pain , sickness and feeling constantly bloated to feeling great , my gallbladder attacks
    disappeared after the first flush I did three years ago and have never returned . It certainly gave
    me a new lease on life , check it if you are wondering and make up your own mind about it .

    Cheers

    ---

    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 -
    Release Date: 18/02/2004
     
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  2. "Bew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out there
    ,
    > the one that worked for me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had great
    > success with it and got rid of hundreds of stones as did others I know . I do the flush at least
    > twice a year . I
    have
    > gone from pain , sickness and feeling constantly bloated to feeling great
    ,
    > my gallbladder attacks disappeared after the first flush I did three years ago and have never
    > returned . It certainly gave me a new lease on life , check it if you are wondering and make up
    > your own mind about it .

    That may be your problem, you are merely leasing your life. I own mine.
     
  3. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Bew <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out there , the one that worked for
    >me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had great success with it and got
    >rid of hundreds of stones

    No, you got rid of hundreds of little blobs made up of the junk you took to get rid of the
    gallstones. Gallstones are tiny little things that look like bits of gravel. They aren't big
    fatty blobs.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  4. Anth

    Anth Guest

    (You should speak to someone in here who did a flush and found out later that his bladder was still
    full of stones) He reported pain relief though. Anth

    "Bew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out there
    ,
    > the one that worked for me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had great
    > success with it and got rid of hundreds of stones as did others I know . I do the flush at least
    > twice a year . I
    have
    > gone from pain , sickness and feeling constantly bloated to feeling great
    ,
    > my gallbladder attacks disappeared after the first flush I did three years ago and have never
    > returned . It certainly gave me a new lease on life , check it if you are wondering and make up
    > your own mind about it .
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    >
    > ---
    >
    > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375
    > - Release Date: 18/02/2004
     
  5. Anth

    Anth Guest

    (Best thing would be some kind of scan before and after) I'd like to see someone actually take these
    stones and mail them off to a lab to see what indeed they are. Anth

    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > (You should speak to someone in here who did a flush and found out later that his bladder was
    > still full of stones) He reported pain relief though. Anth
    >
    > "Bew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out
    there
    > ,
    > > the one that worked for me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had
    > > great success with it and got rid of hundreds
    of
    > > stones as did others I know . I do the flush at least twice a year . I
    > have
    > > gone from pain , sickness and feeling constantly bloated to feeling
    great
    > ,
    > > my gallbladder attacks disappeared after the first flush I did three
    years
    > > ago and have never returned . It certainly gave me a new lease on life , check it if you are
    > > wondering and make up your own mind about it .
    > >
    > > Cheers
    > >
    > >
    > > ---
    > >
    > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database:
    > > 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004
    > >
    >
     
  6. Wb

    Wb Guest

    On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:04:21 -0000, "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >(Best thing would be some kind of scan before and after) I'd like to see someone actually take
    >these stones and mail them off to a lab to see what indeed they are. Anth

    Exactamundo ! Scanning before and after !

    You are on the right track about the "stone" testing.

    --

    Take out the G'RBAGE to reply
    [email protected]
     
  7. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <0pV%b.513[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (David Wright) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Bew <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out there , the one that worked
    > >for me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had great success with it and
    > >got rid of hundreds of stones
    >
    > No, you got rid of hundreds of little blobs made up of the junk you took to get rid of the
    > gallstones. Gallstones are tiny little things that look like bits of gravel. They aren't big
    > fatty blobs.

    Cholesterol gallstones can be a bit crumbly and deformable, but most gallstones are not.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  8. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > (Best thing would be some kind of scan before and after) I'd like to see someone actually take
    > these stones and mail them off to a lab to see what indeed they are.

    You mean alties haven't already done this? It would seem to be a VERY obvious thing to do to see if
    these flushes are working, as would a before-and-after set of ultrasounds or CT scans. Why haven't
    such things been done? A positive result for such things would at least be preliminary evidence that
    these flushes *might* work, but I've yet to see an altie show even evidence that rudimentary.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  9. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    WB <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:04:21 -0000, "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >(Best thing would be some kind of scan before and after) I'd like to see someone actually take
    > >these stones and mail them off to a lab to see what indeed they are. Anth
    >
    >
    > Exactamundo ! Scanning before and after !
    >
    > You are on the right track about the "stone" testing.

    The next step for him is to start wondering WHY such blindingly obvious studies either have not been
    done or are never mentioned by proponents of gallbladder flushes. If he reaches that point, there
    may be hope for him yet.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  10. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Gymmy Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Would require controlled testing and double blind studies.

    Eventually, but not necessarily right off the bat.

    >This may cost up to one million dollars to perform.

    Preliminary studies wouldn't. (See below.)

    >The medical control people have made sure that "no money" medical procedures are never tested so
    >they can keep putting them down and disputing them successfully to the ignorant people.

    What alties seem to forget is that controlled studies are the last step in developing evidence for a
    treatment. Before that, you have to do preliminary studies to determine if the controlled studies
    are even worth pursuing. If the preliminary studies are promising, THEN the randomized studies
    become worthwhile. Often, these preliminary studies are not all that expensive. Certainly, in the
    case of gallbladder flushes, it would be relatively inexpensive.

    One preliminary study would actually be fairly easy and straightforward. It wouldn't even be that
    expensive and could probably be done for maybe $10,000 or $20,000, depending on the number of
    patients used. You would need a group of patients with symptomatic gallstones documented by
    ultrasound and whatever other medical tests were appropriate. You could choose a group that was
    going to undergo surgery anyway, but have them delay their surgery a few weeks to undergo the full
    course of gallbladder flushes. You could then do ultrasound studies of them before the flushes, in
    the middle of the flushes, and after the flushes are complete. Anything they pass in their stool
    that looks like it might be a stone, you would count and send to the lab to determine if it really
    is a stone. At the end, you would look at the pathology results of the gallbladders removed and
    carefully look at the remaining stones to see if there were any signs that they had shrunk. (The
    cost of surgery would not be in the study budget because surgery is the standard of care for
    symptomatic gallbladder disease and would therefore be paid for by insurance or other means.) Any
    objective evidence that the number of gallstones decreased in the group of people treated with
    flushes would be considered a promising result. Any evidence that people undergoing gallbladder
    flushes were passing lots of gallstones in their stool would be considered a promising result.

    Randomized double-blind studies may be the gold standard as far as evidence goes, but less
    complicated and less expensive studies are the preliminary work necessary to justify them.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  11. "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > (Best thing would be some kind of scan before and after)

    That is what I asked Bew for and Bew took a hike on a direct response.

    That is exactly the problem with Alties such as Bew, when asked a direct question that can lead to
    proof of their claims, they do not provide a direct answer.

    > I'd like to see someone actually take these stones and mail them off to a lab to see what indeed
    > they are. Anth
    >
    > "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > (You should speak to someone in here who did a flush and found out later that his bladder was
    > > still full of stones) He reported pain relief though. Anth
    > >
    > > "Bew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Are you thinking of trying a gallbladder flush . There are many out
    > there
    > > ,
    > > > the one that worked for me and others I know was the olive oil and grapefruit juice . I had
    > > > great success with it and got rid of hundreds
    > of
    > > > stones as did others I know . I do the flush at least twice a year . I
    > > have
    > > > gone from pain , sickness and feeling constantly bloated to feeling
    > great
    > > ,
    > > > my gallbladder attacks disappeared after the first flush I did three
    > years
    > > > ago and have never returned . It certainly gave me a new lease on life
    ,
    > > > check it if you are wondering and make up your own mind about it .
    > > >
    > > > Cheers
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ---
    > > >
    > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database:
    > > > 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
  12. "Gymmy Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Would require controlled testing and double blind studies.

    Nope. It would require a sonogram for definitive diagnosis, which is the first step. It would
    then require a flush, which is cheapo, and then a follow-up sonogram to see if the stones are
    still there.

    Simple. So simple that one wonders why the proponents of these flushes do not apply to NCCAM for a
    couple of bucks to provide the studies.

    The only reason I can think of is that they are afraid the results wil show that the flushes
    do not work.

    This may cost up
    > to one million dollars to perform. The medical control people have made
    sure
    > that "no money" medical procedures are never tested so they can keep
    putting
    > them down and disputing them successfully to the ignorant people.
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Curious...has nobody out there done any definitive serious testing in this area to determine
    > > whether there is any value in "stone flushing" or whether its devotees are several salami slices
    > > short of a sandwich? What about all that Government CAM money research? Doesn't seem like this
    > > would be rocket science...or would it? Or maybe the product sellers//practioners would rather
    > > this info not be known?
    > >
    > > .
    >
     
  13. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Mark Probert-February 28, 2004" <Mark
    [email protected]> wrote:

    > "Gymmy Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > > Would require controlled testing and double blind studies.
    >
    > Nope. It would require a sonogram for definitive diagnosis, which is the first step. It would
    > then require a flush, which is cheapo, and then a follow-up sonogram to see if the stones are
    > still there.
    >
    > Simple. So simple that one wonders why the proponents of these flushes do not apply to NCCAM for a
    > couple of bucks to provide the studies.
    >
    > The only reason I can think of is that they are afraid the results wil show that the flushes do
    > not work.

    Yeah, it's amusing how alties always use that the old red herring of needing to do a huge study to
    prove their results. Sometimes it's true, but most times it's not. Depending upon the specfic case,
    you don't always need to do such large studies to develop preliminary evidence supporting your
    claim. In the case of gallbladder flushes, I have posted repeatedly an example of a trial that could
    be done for maybe $20,000 that would demonstrate whether or not the claim that flushes can get rid
    of gallstones has enough merit to go on to a bigger study for confirmation. Basically, all that
    would have to be done is to find some patients with ultrasound-confirmed symptomatic gallstone
    disease scheduled to undergo surgery and then, before surgery, do ultrasounds before, during, and
    after a course of gallbladder flushes to see if the number of gallstones decreased. Very simple. Not
    very expensive as far as medical studies go. In addition, patients can look at their stools and
    retrieve anything that looks like gallstones so that they can be analyzed to determine if they are,
    in fact, gallstones or not.

    Very simple. Not very expensive. Yet I have not seen a single altie describe or quote such a study?
    Why has such a blindingly obvious and simple study not been done? It's so freaking simple as far as
    medical studies go, yet it appears that alties haven't done it.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  14. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Sometimes your poo is larger than your anus. Anth

    "David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Curious...has nobody out there done any definitive serious testing in this area to determine
    > >whether there is any value in "stone flushing" or whether its devotees are several salami slices
    > >short of a sandwich? What about all that Government CAM money research? Doesn't seem like this
    > >would be rocket science...or would it? Or maybe the product sellers//practioners would rather
    > >this info not be known?
    >
    > In many cases, there's no real point. It's obvious on the face of it, for example, that these
    > "gall bladder flushes" can't possibly work, because the supposed "gallstones" they produce are far
    > too large to fit through the bile duct. My favorite analogy is that it'd be like trying to push a
    > beach ball through a garden hose.
    >
    > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost
    > always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    > shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
    >
    >
     
  15. Anth

    Anth Guest

    I'll tell you what how's about this I will do the flush and if you can get someone to analyse them
    (respecting my privacy) you can get them analysed? Anth

    "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:[email protected]
    ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Anth"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > (Best thing would be some kind of scan before and after) I'd like to see someone actually take
    > > these stones and mail them off to
    a
    > > lab to see what indeed they are.
    >
    > You mean alties haven't already done this? It would seem to be a VERY obvious thing to do to see
    > if these flushes are working, as would a before-and-after set of ultrasounds or CT scans. Why
    > haven't such things been done? A positive result for such things would at least be preliminary
    > evidence that these flushes *might* work, but I've yet to see an altie show even evidence that
    > rudimentary.
    >
    > --
    > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    > |
    > |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  16. Anth

    Anth Guest

    You don't even need people with stones, scan yourself, take the flush, if you have no stones and
    zillioins come out then you know there's a rabbit up. Take the stones to your chem lab, get them
    analysed and show what they are. I think the fact that someone on here was flushing and later
    (when they needed surgery) were found to be 'very stoned' is a decent enough argument against the
    flush. Anth

    "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:[email protected]
    ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Mark Probert-February 28, 2004" <Mark
    > Very simple. Not very expensive. Yet I have not seen a single altie describe or quote such a
    > study? Why has such a blindingly obvious and simple study not been done? It's so freaking simple
    > as far as medical studies go, yet it appears that alties haven't done it.
    > --
    > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    > |
    > |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  17. Tsu Dho Nimh

    Tsu Dho Nimh Guest

    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Sometimes your poo is larger than your anus.

    Yes, but the anal sphincter muscle can stretch way more than the one on the common bile duct.

    >
    >"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Curious...has nobody out there done any definitive serious testing in this area to determine
    >> >whether there is any value in "stone flushing" or whether its devotees are several salami slices
    >> >short of a sandwich? What about all that Government CAM money research? Doesn't seem like this
    >> >would be rocket science...or would it? Or maybe the product sellers//practioners would rather
    >> >this info not be known?
    >>
    >> In many cases, there's no real point. It's obvious on the face of it, for example, that these
    >> "gall bladder flushes" can't possibly work, because the supposed "gallstones" they produce are
    >> far too large to fit through the bile duct. My favorite analogy is that it'd be like trying to
    >> push a beach ball through a garden hose.
    >>
    >> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost
    >> always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    >> shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >

    Tsu Dho Nimh

    --
    When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like politicians invoking morality
    and children - grab your wallet and/or your kid and run for your life.
     
  18. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sometimes your poo is larger than your anus.

    Your anus is far more expandable than your common bile duct. Also, if you were to stretch your
    common bile duct that much it would cause excruciating biliary pain.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  19. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Sometimes your poo is larger than your anus.

    Your anus is designed to stretch briefly to accomodate this situation. Your common bile duct is not.
    It will stretch a tiny bit, but I gather the pain is excruciating. A marble- sized object is *not*
    going to go through, period.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    >"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Curious...has nobody out there done any definitive serious testing in this area to determine
    >> >whether there is any value in "stone flushing" or whether its devotees are several salami slices
    >> >short of a sandwich? What about all that Government CAM money research? Doesn't seem like this
    >> >would be rocket science...or would it? Or maybe the product sellers//practioners would rather
    >> >this info not be known?
    >>
    >> In many cases, there's no real point. It's obvious on the face of it, for example, that these
    >> "gall bladder flushes" can't possibly work, because the supposed "gallstones" they produce are
    >> far too large to fit through the bile duct. My favorite analogy is that it'd be like trying to
    >> push a beach ball through a garden hose.
     
  20. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (David Wright) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Sometimes your poo is larger than your anus.
    >
    > Your anus is designed to stretch briefly to accomodate this situation. Your common bile duct is
    > not. It will stretch a tiny bit, but I gather the pain is excruciating. A marble- sized object is
    > *not* going to go through, period.

    The normal diameter of the common bile duct (CBD) is less than 10 mm. In cases of chronic common
    bile duct obstruction, it can gradually stretch without much pain to around 20-25 mm, but this
    nearly always accompanied by jaundice and is nearly always caused by malignancy. Acute CBD
    obstruction, as caused by gallstones, is nearly always accompanied by severe right upper quadrant or
    epigastric pain.

    Also, even if a small gallstone of, say 10 mm in diameter, did manage to find its way into the CBD,
    in most cases, it would very likely lodge at and obstruct the Sphincter of Oddi (a sphicter found
    where the CBD enters the duodenum). Indeed, endoscopists often cut this sphincter during endoscopic
    retrograde cholangiopancreatography (ERCP) to allow gallstones in the biliary tree to pass or to be
    extracted with various endoscopic instruments. If lots of gallstones find their way into the CBD,
    complications can include jaundice, ascending cholangitis (a life-threatening infection of the
    biliary tree), or gallstone pancreatitis (another potentially life-threatening condition).

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
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