Gas prices may surge on 2006 green rules

[Bill Sornson]

Ken M wrote:
> Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
>>> he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
>>> live.
>>
>>
>> Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you
>> Elliot Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>>
>> Shove it up your tailpipe.
>>
>> N&F
>>
>>
> Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road. Where's
he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?

> That would lessen his cost of driving his fossil fuel powered internal
> combustion engined vehicles. Thus making it easier to support his pack
> of puppies at home.

"Pack of puppies"??? Don't even know where to start with that one...

Bill "maybe someone should start an entitlement program for the working
class poor: give 'em a trip to Europe for Michael and a new car for Ken" S.

 

[Ken M]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Ken M wrote:
>
>>Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
>>
>>>Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
>>>>he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
>>>>live.
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you
>>>Elliot Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>>>
>>>Shove it up your tailpipe.
>>>
>>>N&F
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.
>
>
> Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road. Where's
> he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
> fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?
>
>
>>That would lessen his cost of driving his fossil fuel powered internal
>>combustion engined vehicles. Thus making it easier to support his pack
>>of puppies at home.
>
>
> "Pack of puppies"??? Don't even know where to start with that one...
>
> Bill "maybe someone should start an entitlement program for the working
> class poor: give 'em a trip to Europe for Michael and a new car for Ken" S.
>
>
I guess I am in a rare mood today.

Ken "okay to be a jerk on the internet once and a while" M.
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

 

[Neil Brooks]

Price of gas around the world:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

--
Live simply so that others may simply live

 

[max]

In article <[email protected]>, Michael <[email protected]> wrote:

> I was in Germany on business for three months back in 1981

i meant to <aol> this yesterday but overslept...

I lived in Munich during the Arab Oil Embargo. 73? 74? I was there for the
Olympics, too, but that's a different story...

The German response to the supply shortage wasn't to abandon vehicles on
highways, siphon gas from each others' cars in the dead of night and kill
each other while queued up in endless gas lines...(the american response).

They just quit driving on sundays for ... three weeks.

It seemed to help, and it led to me being one of the relatively few people
to ride his "english racer" up and down an autobahn for several hours on a
sunday afternoon. Wish they'd try that here... i could use the miles.

any excuse to trot out my driverless sunday/autobahn biking story.

..max
auf Ihr' links

 

[Bill Sornson]

max wrote:

> I lived in Munich during the Arab Oil Embargo. 73? 74? I was there
> for the Olympics, too, but that's a different story...
>
> The German response to the supply shortage wasn't to abandon
> vehicles on highways, siphon gas from each others' cars in the dead
> of night and kill each other while queued up in endless gas
> lines...(the american response).

God, how did we survive?!? [sarcams mode alert]

Bill "do you believe EVERYTHING you hear?" S.

 

[gds]

Mark D wrote:
>> ======================================Yeah, and what does the average
> German worker make versus an average American worker? A hell of a lot
> more, I'll tell you that.
>
> Most american workers probably wouldn't feel bad springing $3.00+ a
> gallom for gas, if they made a decent living wage like German workers
> do.
>

That is a pretty simplistic comparison.

There are a number of variables that go into calculating a standard of
living and wage rates are only one of them. So, yes wage RATES in
Germany are presently higher than in the US.

However, Germans also work about 20% fewer hours. While some may argue
that this is a good theing theconomic result is that the monetary
earnings of American workers are pretty much the same as German
workers. Also, unemployment and labor force participation rates are
lower in Germany than in the US. So as a % there are fewer workers
earning that average rate in Germany.

Then there is the issue of taxes. For most workers taxes in Germany are
effectively higher than in the US. The result of this is of course
relatively lower disposable and discretionary income in Germany. Yes
there is a higher level of social welfare in Germany; so this further
complicates the comparison.

And then consider prices. Price levels for most items are also higher
in Germany. So it takes more money to buy the same market basket of
goods.

Comparisons are further complicated by the extent and nature of how all
these variables distribute accross the populations. Germany is quite a
bit less ethnically and culturally heterogeneous than the US. So,
defining the "average" worker differs a bit from place to place.

And back to the original argument. I've spent a fair amount of time in
Europe and most of the folks I met envied the relatively cheap fuel
prices in the US. I understand all of he environmental and conservation
issues- but still most folks prefer cheap and plentiful to the opposite
situation.

 

[Neil Brooks]

max <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Michael <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I was in Germany on business for three months back in 1981
>
>i meant to <aol> this yesterday but overslept...
>
>I lived in Munich during the Arab Oil Embargo. 73? 74? I was there for the
>Olympics, too, but that's a different story...

[even further OT]

Did you see that "Munich" is coming out in theaters soon? Spielberg.
Saw previews last night. Looks good.
--
Live simply so that others may simply live

 

[gds]

correction to above. unempolyment is higher in Germany and labor force
particpation rates are lower. The resulting conclusion above is still
correct.
Sorry

 

[[email protected]]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Ken M wrote:

> > Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.
>
> Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road. Where's
> he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
> fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?

I get the idea, but you are overstating it a bit.

FWiW, the Honda Civic Hyrbird and the Prius start in the low 20's. The
average new car in Amerca sells for $26K to $27K. So if we are talking
about "joe average new car buyer" ... he could actually save a few
bucks, before we even consider fuel economy or resale value.

The real-world mileage on those models is in the high 40's at least:

http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

If "Joe Sixpack" is different than "Joe Average" ... then he might
consider a traditional new or used economy car. Sure. On the other
hand ... those "$35K" hybrids are for conspicuous consumers ... who are
not picking a model based on any kind of economy.

(I traded in my Subaru Wagon on a Prius ($22K), have as much space, and
get 50 mpg)

 

[Charles]

"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think given
> todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at $2.80 a
> gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken
> --
> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
> on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.
>
>
>
>

For that excuse, our gas prices here went up a dime on Jan 1 already. If I
could ride the 90 miles to work, I'd put my car into permanent retirement,
but they don't allow bikes on interstates.

Charles

 

[Ken M]

Charles wrote:

> For that excuse, our gas prices here went up a dime on Jan 1 already. If I
> could ride the 90 miles to work, I'd put my car into permanent retirement,
> but they don't allow bikes on interstates.
>
> Charles
>
>

Sounds like you should look for closer employment and enjoy a bicycle
commute.

Ken
--
[T]he bicycle is the most efficient machine ever created: Converting
calories into gas, a bicycle gets the equivalent of three thousand miles
per gallon. ~Bill Strickland, The Quotable Cyclist

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:01:43 -0500, Ken M wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think given
> todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at $2.80 a
> gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken

Now that prices will fall after the holiday season, the oil industry's PR
machine is trying to talk up prices again.

Nothing new.

Matt O.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:17:04 +0000, Bill Sornson wrote:

>> Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.

> Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road.
> Where's he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
> fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?

Don't assume that poor people drive inefficient cars. This stereotype
probably goes back to the 80s, when the cheap cars were the dinosaurs from
the 60s and 70s -- which *were* inefficient. This is no longer true. Now
the cheapest cars are things like 80s Corollas, which are almost as good
as their newer counterparts. And this is what I see most poor people
driving, from East LA to Appalachia.

Matt O.

 

[SMS]

max wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:
>

The low sulfur regulations will actually help the U.S. driver, as the
reason why we do not have all the extremely fuel efficient diesel cars,
that are available in Europe, is the high sulfur content on our diesel fuel.

 

[Q]

Along with my road bike which I often ride to work when weather permits,
I have a cheap Chinese made bicycle engine installed on a cheap Chinese
made cruiser bike. It makes for a quick and peddle free commute when
needed. Total cost of the new bike and engine was just $250. It has been
very reliable and it gets 150 mpg. No tags, insurance, etc., required
here in Oregon.

Q

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> Don't assume that poor people drive inefficient cars. This stereotype
> probably goes back to the 80s, when the cheap cars were the dinosaurs from
> the 60s and 70s -- which *were* inefficient. This is no longer true. Now
> the cheapest cars are things like 80s Corollas, which are almost as good
> as their newer counterparts. And this is what I see most poor people
> driving, from East LA to Appalachia.
>
> Matt O.

 

[Charles]

"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Charles wrote:
>
>> For that excuse, our gas prices here went up a dime on Jan 1 already.
>> If I could ride the 90 miles to work, I'd put my car into permanent
>> retirement, but they don't allow bikes on interstates.
>>
>> Charles
>
> Sounds like you should look for closer employment and enjoy a bicycle
> commute.
>
> Ken
> --
> [T]he bicycle is the most efficient machine ever created: Converting
> calories into gas, a bicycle gets the equivalent of three thousand miles
> per gallon. ~Bill Strickland, The Quotable Cyclist
>
> Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
>
>
>

Yeah, but they don't plow / salt the roads I'd be on, so I'd still have to
drive in the winter. There's no route between the two spots that is plowed
or salted before I'm due at work.

Charles of Kankakee