Gear advice for walk across Europe?



Peter:

I agree with you 100% about it not being very necessary to ship things
back to me in the USA, especailly a tent which I won't need until I'm
there. Actually my initial plan was to buy the Laser Competition in
Madrid. Terra Nova says they've got a retailer there. So I called up
Terra Nova and the fellow says that the only places that sell those
lightweight tents will be located within the UK and not in continental
Europe or anywhere else in the world. It doesn't even really matter at
this point because I emailed The Outdoor Shop and they don't ship
outside the UK full-stop. Hmmm. Actually, it's just occured to me
that I may be able to just buy the Laser Competition and have it
shipped to my friend who lives in London. He is planning to meet me in
Madrid anyway to send me on my way. That could work well. For all the
money I am spending on this project it is probably worth the extra $100
to get a significantly lighter and better tent.

Lee
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Hmmm. Actually, it's just occured to me
> that I may be able to just buy the Laser Competition and have it
> shipped to my friend who lives in London. He is planning to meet me in
> Madrid anyway to send me on my way. That could work well.

Sounds good to me. You might consider the "normal" Laserlite rather
than the competition model. I don't know the specific differences but
I'd be surprised if the competition model hasn't taken some shortcuts
with things like the groundsheet material to save weight at the expense
of durability. Competition tents are only meant to be used for one or
two nights rather than a sustained trip and assume experienced campers.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter:

Okay, I'll read a few more reviews and get some opinions before I
decide between the LL or the Competition.

While on the subject of ground materials, do you consider a sleeping
pad indispensible or a nice luxury?

Lee
 
[email protected] wrote:

> While on the subject of ground materials, do you consider a sleeping
> pad indispensible or a nice luxury?

Somewhere between the two, though the particular answer depends on how
cold it is and how you sleep.

Insulation works by trapping still air. The insulation in your sleeping
bag, once you're on top of it, will have very little room for air so it
won't insulate well. In warmer temperatures you can get around that by
using spare clothes as an under-blanket, or bubble wrap for the odd cold
night, but as the cold gets colder then this becomes increasingly
inadequate.

Another point to consider is how well you're sleeping and how that
affects your overall enjoyment of the trip. You have to weigh the
problem of not enjoying the walking because you're carrying a
comfortable but heavy and bulky mat against the problem of not enjoying
the walking because you didn't get a decent night's sleep and you're
pretty sure you won't get a decent night's sleep later today either. A
good self-inflating mat like a Thermarest significantly increases
overnight comfort. A simple airbed solves the comfort issue, but is a
poor insulator: not a problem if it's warm, but if it's cold then not
much fun.

So the answer as usual is there are pros and cons, and whichever way you
go you'll have to pay to some degree. I'd start by trying out your
sleeping bag on the floor when you buy it and see if you get any sleep.
If not then start thinking about mats. Note that closed cell foam is
mostly for insulation, /not/ padding. It gives some padding, but for
more comfort look at inflating types.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
> While on the subject of ground materials, do you consider a sleeping
> pad indispensible or a nice luxury?

A 3/4 length self inflating mat would be a good compromise between size and
weight. If you can buy them in Spain or France then I'd suggest going
without at first - if the cold/hard ground is spoiling your sleep then it's
a no brainer. If you're sleeping fine you've saved dollars, space and
weight. Given finances and luggage space are limited there's little point
spending $$$ on the off chance.
 
[email protected] said...
> While on the subject of ground materials, do you consider a sleeping
> pad indispensible or a nice luxury?
>
Indispensable. At least - you do want to sleep I suppose? And get a
self-inflating mat because they are super comfy and warm and pack down
nice and small. Oh, and they don't weigh a lot.
--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.
 
On 12/2/06 20:03, in article
[email protected],
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Perhaps a tent IS my best option. That Laserlite looks really good,
> and at 2.4 pounds it isn't SO much heavier than that bivy. However, it
> says it is a 1 - 2 person tent... I'm wondering if I can cut even more
> weight by getting a "strictly one-person tent" of a similar make. I
> will have to seek this out. Any recommendations appreciated as usual.

Lee,

I would seriously look at the Go-Lite Hex. This is a single skin tent that
can be used with just a personal groundsheet - also from Go-Lite. The tent
uses a trekking pole as its main pole. All-in-all this combination is less
than 1 kilogram. Apparently the Hex is great in bad weather - and you will
have plenty of that. The size - when you're stuck in a tent - can be a great
bonus.


--
Andy Howell, Birmingham, UK. To mail simply put back the dots ...

Must Be Over There ...
http://www.ecotrend.org.uk/trek
 
In article <C016A7F9.48F5D%andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk>, Andy
Howell <andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk.?.invalid> writes
>
>I would seriously look at the Go-Lite Hex. This is a single skin tent that
>can be used with just a personal groundsheet - also from Go-Lite. The tent
>uses a trekking pole as its main pole. All-in-all this combination is less
>than 1 kilogram.

Seems to be just shy of three pounds:
1 lb 12 oz main + 14 oz poles + 5 oz stakes = 1.335kg

from

http://www.golitestore.com/store/NS_proddetail.asp?number=SH6106

Finding a 10 foot x 8 foot 6 pitch is not always easy - it would be more
versatile if Lee met a couple of friends on the way though ;-)

--

Dominic Sexton
 
> I would seriously look at the Go-Lite Hex. This is a single skin tent that
> can be used with just a personal groundsheet -

I'd question it's insect-proofness ? Also the weight is more than the [ublished
weight for the TN Competition so I don't see what the advantage is ?

--
Boo
 
I'm going to go with Peter and Mark's suggestion of just starting
without a mat. I am a heavy sleeper anyway and have slept on floors
and hard surfaces many times. However, as you suggest, if I find
myself miserable because of my sleeping situation I will definitely buy
one somewhere in Spain or France.

Still liking the Laser Competition. Just waiting for word from my
friend as to whether he'll mind couriering it to me, then I'll go ahead
and buy it.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Still liking the Laser Competition.

One last attempt to get you to change to the standard model unless
you're only planning to use it /very/ occasionally. Competition models
are made deliberately flimsy to save weight in minimalist events where
you're only camping for a night or two and comfort and robustness are
non-issues and they're expected to be in the hands of experienced and
tough campers.

The standard Laserlite is still exceptionally light for a full featured
twin skin tent, and is the lightest that can currently be had that's
considered fit for purpose for general camping over an extended period.
Since my impression is you're not an experienced camper and that your
tour will be extended I think it does look to be the better option.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter:

I haven't actually bought either tent yet. Believe it or not, the
Outdoor Store will not allow me to buy it and ship it to my friend
because "the delivery address on the card needs to match the shipping
address". Of course, that's quite difficult since they also refuse to
ship outside the USA..... I may just have to have him buy it and pay
him back, but that may be asking too much. It also basically prevents
me from buying with a credit card and forces me to use the limited cash
I have on hand.

Still, if I don't get fully put off the Terra Nova stuff, I will
definitely think more about getting the Laserlite over the Competition.
The ads make it seem like it's "the same tent, just lighter". They
don't make much mention of flimsier materials and the limited ability
to use it over time. And I guess the TL is, what, half a pound
heavier?

I think the MicroZoid is still my backup, the big plus being that I can
actually get the damned thing shipped to me.
 
In respect of the LaserLite / LL Competition question I can only say that I
haven't seen the Competition version yet but will be buying one as soon as I can
find the readies. I am a reasonably experienced camper though and always use a
space bag (like a space blanket) underneath the tent to protect the ground sheet.

Lee, you will be a more experienced camper than me after 5000km so I wouldn't
let inexperience put you off buying the right gear :)

If you're interested in knowing more about the differences in strength between
the two tents then I have always found Terra Nova to be very helpful and
friendly. They are at <http://www.terra-nova.co.uk> and can be emailed at tents
at terra hyphen nova dot co dot uk (do the obvious to get the email addy or else
it's on the website). I think from what you were saying originally, you don't
intend to spend too much time in a tent anyway preferring lodgings and huts etc
? If this is so then the the case for an ultra-light tent strengthens and I
doubt the Competition is all that flimsy. TN will advise and of course they
have actually seen the tents ;-)


Hth,

--
Boo
 
[email protected] wrote:

> I haven't actually bought either tent yet. Believe it or not, the
> Outdoor Store will not allow me to buy it and ship it to my friend
> because "the delivery address on the card needs to match the shipping
> address".

This is a standard precaution and is done to stop credit card fraud, so
though it might be a PITA for you it is, on balance, a Good Thing.

> Of course, that's quite difficult since they also refuse to
> ship outside the USA..... I may just have to have him buy it and pay
> him back, but that may be asking too much.

Wire him some money up front if he has insufficient capital to spend on
your behalf.

> Still, if I don't get fully put off the Terra Nova stuff, I will
> definitely think more about getting the Laserlite over the Competition.
> The ads make it seem like it's "the same tent, just lighter".

You can't get something for nothing. If you could then the standard
model wouldn't exist, because there would be basically no point in not
having the lighter tent since it isn't /that/ much more expensive.

> don't make much mention of flimsier materials and the limited ability
> to use it over time.

So how do you think they've saved the weight? All else being equal a
lighter material won't be as tough. You can get around this to a degree
with better basic materials so all else isn't equal, but TN have already
done that in the normal model of the tent, so the only way to lighten it
up is by compromising somewhere. The heaviest fabric component in a
lightweight is typically the groundsheet, and that's heaviest because it
takes the most abuse. Other competition tents (e.g., the extra-light
edition of the Macpac Microlight) use normal flysheet fabric over the
ground rather than the much tougher item in the standard model. It
works /if/ you're very careful with it and don't use it much, but it
needs more care, will ware out quicker even with more care, and will
suffer considerably more with condensation.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
"This is a standard precaution and is done to stop credit card fraud,
so
though it might be a PITA for you it is, on balance, a Good Thing. "

A reasonable precaution would be to verify that the purchaser can
provide the billing address and the security code on the card, and then
he should be able to get the thing shipped anywhere he pleases. But
it's not for me to determine their business practices, and that's not
what this thread is about anyway.

Good idea about wiring the dough. I'll set that up with him.

I suppose I was under the impression that the Competition was the next
model that would "replace" the Laserlite. But it does make sense that
you wouldn't be able to get something for nothing -- in this case, that
"something" is half a pound less on your back.

I have sent an email to Terra Nova asking their advice, as Boo advised.
Boo, you are right that I am going to be looking for indoor lodging,
but exactly how much camping I expect to be doing is unknown. It could
be 30 nights over the course of the trip, or it could be 90 if I end up
loving the experience. As with just about everything in this project,
I'm just plunging in and hoping to figure it out as I need to.

Oh, I intend on posting a complete gear list to this group after my
final purchases, for those who are interested.

Lee
 
On 13 Feb 2006 02:39:46 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>Peter:
>
>I agree with you 100% about it not being very necessary to ship things
>back to me in the USA, especailly a tent which I won't need until I'm
>there. Actually my initial plan was to buy the Laser Competition in
>Madrid. Terra Nova says they've got a retailer there. So I called up
>Terra Nova and the fellow says that the only places that sell those
>lightweight tents will be located within the UK and not in continental
>Europe or anywhere else in the world. It doesn't even really matter at
>this point because I emailed The Outdoor Shop and they don't ship
>outside the UK full-stop. Hmmm. Actually, it's just occured to me
>that I may be able to just buy the Laser Competition and have it
>shipped to my friend who lives in London. He is planning to meet me in
>Madrid anyway to send me on my way. That could work well. For all the
>money I am spending on this project it is probably worth the extra $100
>to get a significantly lighter and better tent.
>
May be worth looking at http://www.barrabes.com/ - clued-up Spanish
online outdoor/mountain shop with multi-lingual website. Usual
disclaimers - just a happy customer.
--
All the best
David Millen
Xativa, Valencia
www.fincacasablanca.com
please reply in group
if you have to email me, remove the obvious:
[email protected]
 
[email protected] wrote:

> I have sent an email to Terra Nova asking their advice, as Boo advised.

I'd be interested to hear what they say when you get a response.

> Oh, I intend on posting a complete gear list to this group after my
> final purchases, for those who are interested.

Post away, the ground rule as they say is "simplify and add more lightness" :)

Cheers,

--
Boo
 
I wrote to Terra Nova and this is what they had to say of the Laserlite
vs the Competition:

"The groundsheet is lighter in weight on the Laser Comp and so may be
slightly more prone to damage by sharp objects, but the specification
is
the same in terms of water resistance.

It maybe a good idea therefore to use a groundsheet protector to help
protect the groundsheet in some circumstances.

The Laser Comp was created primarily as an event tent, and so all
extraneous weight has been stripped out. However, providing you take
care of the tent, and make good use of surrounding cover, there is no
reason why it cannot also be used for longer trips. Please note, though
in terms of overall performance this is a 3 season tent."

I think I'm going to take a chance on the Competition. Since I'm
carrying about 10 pounds with my camera gear, sound gear, and tripod,
there aren't many spots in my pack that I can cut to save weight. When
I originally planned this project I wasn't even going to take a
sleeping bag or a tent. I was just going to seek out shelter each
night. Until I found out you could get such extremely lightweight ones.
I would like to have more-or-less the lightest available, because that
way I won't ever be cursing myself for taking the stuff along as an
option.

However, if I find the tent inadequate I'll certainly be thinking
Peter's name as I toss and turn at night. ;)

Lee
 
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