Gear equivalence

[mjw_byrne]

el Ingles - the comment about the warranty issue was really just meant in the case where a bike is being custom set up. If buying parts one at a time you would want to keep them within warranty. If buying a whole bike at once, then of course you expect the bike shop not to have fudged anything.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
el Ingles - the comment about the warranty issue was really just meant in the case where a bike is being custom set up. If buying parts one at a time you would want to keep them within warranty. If buying a whole bike at once, then of course you expect the bike shop not to have fudged anything.

Honesty, warranty on a RD is such a non issue, why even mention it. The warranty is for defects in materials and workmanship,basically meaning if breaks or falls apart it gets fixed or most likely replaced. There is a disclaimer for 'misuse'. Using one with a 29 or 30 cog, could be construed as 'misue', but won't break it or cause it to fall apart. If one did fall apart while being used in such a circumstance, do you really think anyone would know that? If you were to say 'I was just riding along and....'.Who would know the difference? Another point:specs are conservative.Almost invaribly based on the stuff that is being sold,and not what it will really do. Why is road RD max cog spec 27? It's the biggest road cog Shimano sells.It use to be 28 in 8 speed days when they peddeled a 28 cog. Why is wrap capacity stated as 29 for a SC RD? The bigget combination shimano provides over the counter is a 53/39 by 12/27 = 29. Time for a reality check......

 

[mjw_byrne]

Originally posted by boudreaux
...If one did fall apart while being used in such a circumstance, do you really think anyone would know that? If you were to say 'I was just riding along and....'.Who would know the difference?

You're quite right, no-one would know the difference. So if you are a liar, you have this safety net. I personally am not a liar and I don't think it's acceptable to violate the terms of a warranty and then con the manufacturer into replacing the broken part anyway.

 

[fushman]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
You're quite right, no-one would know the difference. So if you are a liar, you have this safety net. I personally am not a liar and I don't think it's acceptable to violate the terms of a warranty and then con the manufacturer into replacing the broken part anyway.

wow, it must be nice being such a good person

anyways, assuming were just talking about rds, how much does one cost anyways? not all that much in the grand scheme of things, especially if its not d/a or record. and even still its not going to break in the first place.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
You're quite right, no-one would know the difference. So if you are a liar, you have this safety net. I personally am not a liar and I don't think it's acceptable to violate the terms of a warranty and then con the manufacturer into replacing the broken part anyway.

Well, actually,since I would not waste my time, and you would not do it, the point is moot,and the case is closed. OK counselor?

 

[fushman]

Originally posted by Randybaker99
Why doesn't your friend just get a triple? He could use a racing cluster with 23-11 cogs and have lots of room in both directions, and have very fine grained shifting to boot!

btw how much different is shifting going to between differently spaced cassettes? i dont notice any difference between 12-23 and 12-25s on my diff bikes, and sadly im considering adding that 27 tooth cog :-/

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by fushman
btw how much different is shifting going to between differently spaced cassettes? i dont notice any difference between 12-23 and 12-25s on my diff bikes, and sadly im considering adding that 27 tooth cog :-/

There is only 2 teeth difference between the 2 biggest cogs in a 12x23 and 12x25. It's 3 teeth in a 12x27. I don't notice any issues in a campy with a 26 to 29 jump and would not expect any in a properly setup shimano 27.Make sure the chain is long enough for the big/big, just in case.

 

[Eidetic]

Where I notice the big difference in double vs. triple setups in hilly terrain are the 'missing" 16 and 18 on the DA 12-27 (12 13 14 15 17/19, and 21/24/27) used with the double CR. If the grade is so steep that you on the 21/24/27 part of the cassette, you're going pretty slowly. There's a bigger speed difference when you can't quite push the 15 but could push a 16, but have to stay on the 17.

 

[recycle]

mjw-byrne ... chill out!

boudreaux gives some of the best and most consistent mechanical advice on this board ... and considering how many times we (myself included), the underresearched and undertrained, take advantage of this we should be thankful. Thanks boudreaux and I think "hooey" is rather polite.

mjw-byrne, are you still faster on your hybrid than your road bike?

 

[capwater]

As one who has been "hooeyied" by the might boudreaux on more than one occassion, I can attest that it ain't as bad as it seems. This board is relatively polite compared to others. Quite possible Mr. B is just trying to save bandwidth. Hooey does sum it up right well.

Cheers!

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by capwater
Quite possible Mr. B is just trying to save bandwidth. Hooey does sum it up right well.

Cheers!

Well said! Group {{{HUG}}}!! Now I feel better already.

 

[mjw_byrne]

Originally posted by boudreaux
Well, actually,since I would not waste my time, and you would not do it, the point is moot,and the case is closed. OK counselor?

boudreaux: The point isn't moot just because you wouldn't waste your time getting a new RD and I wouldn't lie to the manufacturer - what the original poster would do is what matters. My advice was directed at him, not you.

recycle: I've read many of boudreaux's posts and I have no doubt he knows what he is talking about, but it seems to me that that isn't an excuse for jumping on people when they make innocent mistakes while trying to give some friendly advice - would it kill him/her to learn some manners? In answer to your question, yes I probably am still better on my hybrid than my road bike but I think the gap is narrowing, and hopefully when I get more miles on the road bike and fiddle with the saddle position/bar/stem setup, I will be faster on the road bike (ta for asking).

 

[fushman]

im confused, the specs for the shimano short cage rd are a max 27t cog and a 29t capacity!!!

anyways, maybe you should buy a mountain bike, youll be fastest of all on that!

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
boudreaux: The point isn't moot just because you wouldn't waste your time getting a new RD and I wouldn't lie to the manufacturer - what the original poster would do is what matters. My advice was directed at him, not you.

recycle: I've read many of boudreaux's posts and I have no doubt he knows what he is talking about, but it seems to me that that isn't an excuse for jumping on people when they make innocent mistakes while trying to give some friendly advice - would it kill him/her to learn some manners? In answer to your question, yes I probably am still better on my hybrid than my road bike but I think the gap is narrowing, and hopefully when I get more miles on the road bike and fiddle with the saddle position/bar/stem setup, I will be faster on the road bike (ta for asking).

Not that it really matters,or that it will get thru to you,but here is another real life example of 'spec ' and exceeding it. Short cage 8 speed DA DR with chain wrap spec of 26 teeth. chairings 52/39/30 cassette 13x23. That's 32 teeth, and 6 outside of spec, and it wraps it ALL. No issues,long term use,no abnormal wear,not gonna fall apart or break or bugger anything because of it. Several other similar setups with similar equipment. NO issues. People who have ACTUALLY done this stuff and have ventured out of their neatly dimensioned little boxes, know all about it and how it works. AFWIW, fudging something like wrap capacity, means doing nothing more than staying out of some of the smallest cogs when in the granny or small ring(not using a crowbar or monkey wrench to tweak it).You should not be there anyway and it gains a few more teeth in wrap capacity. ABTW, getting hooeyed really is pretty mild compared to a real jumping on.

 

[mjw_byrne]

I dunno why you're trying to convince me that Shimano's specs are conservative and that exceeding them need not result in any problems, I was well aware of that before ever visiting this forum. I never said exceeding the spec might cause a mechanical problem of any sort, I made a minor comment that I thought might possibly be helpful or of interest to the original poster. Is this so hard to understand?

 

[davidbod]

Originally posted by Eidetic
Where I notice the big difference in double vs. triple setups in hilly terrain are the 'missing" 16 and 18 on the DA 12-27 (12 13 14 15 17/19, and 21/24/27) used with the double CR. If the grade is so steep that you on the 21/24/27 part of the cassette, you're going pretty slowly. There's a bigger speed difference when you can't quite push the 15 but could push a 16, but have to stay on the 17.

They don't seem to be getting it do they.

I agree with you completely. If you need a 12-27 with a Double CR when you could have the same thing with an 11-21 Tripple CR, then your missing the 16/18/20 cog from an 11-21. It's not how well the bike shifts from one gear to another, it's the closer spaced gearing.

Imagine your in a group ride and climbing a hill. Towards the end of the climb your getting fatigued and the group shifts from a 15 to a 16, or a 17 to an 18, or a 19 to a 20. You don't have this gear so your forced to either grind harder at a slower cadence, or shift and spin faster than the group. If the conditions are right, your chances of getting dropped are quite high.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
I dunno why you're trying to convince me that Shimano's specs are conservative and that exceeding them need not result in any problems, I was well aware of that before ever visiting this forum. I never said exceeding the spec might cause a mechanical problem of any sort, I made a minor comment that I thought might possibly be helpful or of interest to the original poster. Is this so hard to understand?

welll pardon me,but you sure did not sound like it when you stated in.You were the one that played the warranty card rather than keeping it up your sleeve, when you had no other ammunition. Now stop backpedaling.

 

[mjw_byrne]

"Played the warranty card"? "Ammunition"? Exactly what do you imagine this forum is for? It is not for meaningless arguments and clever-sounding quips. I am not "backpedaling" either; re-read my posts and you will see that all I was trying to do was make a comment which I thought might be interesting/relevant/helpful to the original poster, which is one of the things the forum IS supposed to be used for.

 

[fushman]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
"Played the warranty card"? "Ammunition"? Exactly what do you imagine this forum is for? It is not for meaningless arguments and clever-sounding quips. I am not "backpedaling" either; re-read my posts and you will see that all I was trying to do was make a comment which I thought might be interesting/relevant/helpful to the original poster, which is one of the things the forum IS supposed to be used for.

id tell you to shove a rd where the sun dont shine but youd yell at me about misuse and voiding warranties

 

[mjw_byrne]

Originally posted by fushman
id tell you to shove a rd where the sun dont shine but youd yell at me about misuse and voiding warranties

Whoa, chill out! What exactly about commenting that something might void the warranty pisses people off so much?!