Gears - confused

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Gary, Jun 22, 2003.

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  1. Gary

    Gary Guest

    Hello,

    I have a Raleigh Sport 300 27 Speed model and I have a query regarding gears if anyone would care
    to listen :)

    The bike has three front gears and 9 rear gears. Some configurations I use are causing a hellish
    Clicking sound when cycling. It seems to happen when I am on the "large" gear at the front and
    "small" gear at the back or vice versa. However if I can choose gears which allow the chain to
    remain straight across both sets it seems to be fine. Not a complaint, just an observation.

    Would like to say the bike is a dream to ride, I can climb hills rapidly, normally 10MPH when on the
    easiest gear and if I get a good downhill section, I am coming close to 50MPH - my record so far is
    45.4MPH. I use the PANORAM cycle computer to record this info, it too is cool.

    Thanks,

    Gary.
     
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  2. >I have a query regarding gears if anyone would care to listen :)

    Technically that was a statement rather than a question :).

    >Some configurations I use are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling.

    Your Tiagra mechanism can't handle cross chaining on a 9 speed triple. Either don't cross chain or
    give the front der more slop on both stops. In other words trim.

    You really have to watch that cross chaining on 9-speed, I know it's supposed to be point and click
    but it ain't there yet.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
     
  3. Pat

    Pat Guest

    x-no-archive:yes
    >
    > I have a Raleigh Sport 300 27 Speed model and I have a query regarding
    gears
    > if anyone would care to listen :)
    >
    > The bike has three front gears and 9 rear gears. Some configurations I
    use
    > are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling. It seems to happen
    when
    > I am on the "large" gear at the front and "small" gear at the back or vice versa. However if I can
    > choose gears which allow the chain to remain straight across both sets it seems to be fine. Not a
    > complaint, just an observation.
    >
    > Would like to say the bike is a dream to ride, I can climb hills rapidly, normally 10MPH when on
    > the easiest gear and if I get a good downhill section, I am coming close to 50MPH - my record so
    > far is 45.4MPH. I use the PANORAM cycle computer to record this info, it too is cool.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Gary.

    Gary, for all practical purposes, the outside and inside gear combinations are unusable on any bike.
    This is called cross-chaining and results in the gears being worn out by the friction. It is
    actually as if you are sawing on your gears when pulling the chain across them at such a severe
    angle. The fix? don't do it. It's just that simple. Your "27 speed" bike is actually a "25 speed"
    bike because of this. If you are truly going 45.5 MPH downhill, I sure hope you have good brakes!

    Pat in Texas
     
  4. helen

    helen Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Gary
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Um...

    Large front to small back isn't cross-chaining. Large to large and small to small is cross chaining.
    Sounds more to me like the limit screws on the front mech are set a little tight
     
  5. On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 06:24:00 +0000, Eric S. Sande wrote:

    >>I have a query regarding gears if anyone would care to listen :)
    >
    > Technically that was a statement rather than a question :).
    >
    >>Some configurations I use are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling.
    >
    > Your Tiagra mechanism can't handle cross chaining on a 9 speed triple. Either don't cross chain or
    > give the front der more slop on both stops. In other words trim.
    >
    > You really have to watch that cross chaining on 9-speed, I know it's supposed to be point and
    > click but it ain't there yet.

    AFAICT he was not referring to cross-chaining. He was using the large ring and "smallest" cog in
    back. Why in quotes I don't know. Anyway, that is not cross-chaining. He probably needs to get the
    limit screw adjusted.

    You are right that Tiagra has inadequate front shifting design. Higher-end Shimano, and all Campy,
    shifters allow trimming of the front derailleur, which is a better idea than trying to over-design
    the derailleur cage to work without trimming.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
    -- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |
     
  6. On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:07:28 +0000, Pat wrote:

    > Gary, for all practical purposes, the outside and inside gear combinations are unusable on
    > any bike.

    Big front and small rear is not cross-chaining, but it isn't clear what he really meant.

    > This is called cross-chaining and results in the gears being worn out by the friction. It is
    >actually as if you are sawing on your gears when pulling the chain across them at such a
    >severe angle.

    As dramatic as that sounds, you can say the same thing about anything other than a perfectly
    straight chainline. The main reason to avoid cross-chaining is that you will always be rubbing on
    the front cage, or rubbing the chain on the outer ring (in a small-small combination), or have
    spontaneous shifting.

    > The fix? don't do it. It's just that simple.

    Well, yes.

    > Your "27 speed" bike is actually a "25 speed" bike because of this.

    Actually, it is a lot less than that, if you want to count actually different ratios.

    > If you are truly going 45.5 MPH downhill, I sure hope you have good brakes!

    That is not so outrageous a speed, on a good downhill stretch. You don't have too many of them in
    Texas, though.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
    and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson
     
  7. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    "David L. Johnson" wrote:

    > You are right that Tiagra has inadequate front shifting design. Higher-end Shimano, and all Campy,
    > shifters allow trimming of the front derailleur, which is a better idea than trying to over-design
    > the derailleur cage to work without trimming.
    >
    > -

    They and a few others, I'm told. It looks like the way users/riders would like to go is indexed rear
    shifters and friction fronts. That would sure work for me. It likely could be worked into twist
    shifters and "rapid fire" style trigger shifters too.

    This may sound awful to those out there who keep their gear tip top all the time, but when I had
    friction shifters on my old 10 speed around <gasp> 30 years ago, I could get all the gears even when
    my derailleurs were in desperate need of adjustment. Can't say the same for my indexed shifters
    today. You win a few, you lose a few....

    Best regards, Bernie
     
  8. Roberto

    Roberto Guest

    On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:51:07 -0400, David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:07:28 +0000, Pat wrote:
    >
    >> Gary, for all practical purposes, the outside and inside gear combinations are unusable on
    >> any bike.
    >
    > Big front and small rear is not cross-chaining, but it isn't clear what he really meant.
    >
    >>  This is called cross-chaining and results in the gears being worn out by the friction. It is
    >> actually as if you are sawing on your gears when pulling the chain across them at such a
    >> severe angle.
    >
    > As dramatic as that sounds, you can say the same thing about anything other than a perfectly
    > straight chainline. The main reason to avoid cross-chaining is that you will always be rubbing on
    > the front cage, or rubbing the chain on the outer ring (in a small-small combination), or have
    > spontaneous shifting.
    >
    >> The fix? don't do it. It's just that simple.
    >
    > Well, yes.
    >
    >>  Your "27 speed" bike is actually a "25 speed" bike because of this.
    >
    > Actually, it is a lot less than that, if you want to count actually different ratios.
    >
    >> If you are truly going 45.5 MPH downhill, I sure hope you have good brakes!
    >
    > That is not so outrageous a speed, on a good downhill stretch. You don't have too many of them in
    > Texas, though.
    >

    I don't think that 45.5 is much at all -- I hit this speed every time I ride, but the part of CT I
    live in is hilly. In fact, my ride is basically one big hill -- I'm either going up or down a hill.
    (My speedometer said I hit 56 mph last time, but I'm hesitant to believe this.)

    --
    Bob M in CT
     
  9. > This may sound awful to those out there who keep their gear tip top all
    the
    > time, but when I had friction shifters on my old 10 speed around <gasp> 30 years ago, I could get
    > all the gears even when my derailleurs were in desperate need of adjustment. Can't say the same
    > for my indexed shifters today. You win a few, you lose a few....
    >

    Converting to friction shifting, from the comforts of indexed shifting, IMHO, is a pain in the rear.
    1. The levers when properly adjusted to sufficient friction need rather significant force to shift.
    Even with a strong thumb (nothing beats barre chords on a guitar for thumb training) it's rather
    difficult.
    2. The friction knobs go loose after every 100 or so miles, and have to be retightened
    3. A gear shift used to take a split second, with friction shifters it's a few seconds - overshift,
    then backshift a little.
    4. Indexed shifter: *click* *thunk* Friction shifter: *clickclickclick* *brrraaaazzaaatttt*
    *click* *thunk*
    5. Trigger shifters? Fat hope.

    Though they need slightly less maintainence (it's worth the trouble for indexed shifting IMHO) and
    pose less compatibility problems, I vehemently hate them.

    The Real Lee Casey
     
  10. Gary

    Gary Guest

    OK _ I got it wrong, it was large to Large and Small to Small which is causing clicking.

    Thanks,

    Gary.

    "Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have a Raleigh Sport 300 27 Speed model and I have a query regarding
    gears
    > if anyone would care to listen :)
    >
    > The bike has three front gears and 9 rear gears. Some configurations I
    use
    > are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling. It seems to happen
    when
    > I am on the "large" gear at the front and "small" gear at the back or vice versa. However if I can
    > choose gears which allow the chain to remain straight across both sets it seems to be fine. Not a
    > complaint, just an observation.
    >
    > Would like to say the bike is a dream to ride, I can climb hills rapidly, normally 10MPH when on
    > the easiest gear and if I get a good downhill section, I am coming close to 50MPH - my record so
    > far is 45.4MPH. I use the PANORAM cycle computer to record this info, it too is cool.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Gary.
     
  11. On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:41:17 +0000, Gary wrote:

    > OK _ I got it wrong, it was large to Large and Small to Small which is causing clicking.

    Ah. The other responses are right. "Doc, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that."

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) |
     
  12. On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:37:54 +0000, Roberto wrote:

    > I don't think that 45.5 is much at all -- I hit this speed every time I ride, but the part of CT I
    > live in is hilly. In fact, my ride is basically one big hill -- I'm either going up or down a
    > hill. (My speedometer said I hit 56 mph last time, but I'm hesitant to believe this.)

    I've ridden in rural CT. This is not hard to believe at all.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
    you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson
     
  13. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    The Real Lee Casey wrote:

    > > This may sound awful to those out there who keep their gear tip top all
    > the
    > > time, but when I had friction shifters on my old 10 speed around <gasp> 30 years ago, I could
    > > get all the gears even when my derailleurs were in desperate need of adjustment. Can't say the
    > > same for my indexed shifters today. You win a few, you lose a few....
    > >
    >
    > Converting to friction shifting, from the comforts of indexed shifting, IMHO, is a pain in
    > the rear.
    > 1. The levers when properly adjusted to sufficient friction need rather significant force to
    > shift. Even with a strong thumb (nothing beats barre chords on a guitar for thumb training)
    > it's rather difficult.
    > 2. The friction knobs go loose after every 100 or so miles, and have to be retightened
    > 3. A gear shift used to take a split second, with friction shifters it's a few seconds -
    > overshift, then backshift a little.
    > 4. Indexed shifter: *click* *thunk* Friction shifter: *clickclickclick* *brrraaaazzaaatttt*
    > *click* *thunk*
    > 5. Trigger shifters? Fat hope.
    >
    > Though they need slightly less maintainence (it's worth the trouble for indexed shifting IMHO) and
    > pose less compatibility problems, I vehemently hate them.
    >
    > The Real Lee Casey

    Well I don't "hate" friction shifters, and I do enjoy friction shifters, especially on the rear. It
    was likely easier to friction shift way back when there were only five rear cogs - chains were
    wider, tolerances were a bit bigger

    . Fronts are another matter. I've got these wrist shifters, twist shifters, you know the kind. Mine
    don't have a trim feature, and I feel I'd do alright with a friction shifter for the front. Don't
    know how I'd mount one though. Of course, I'm talking commuting and general riding here, not the
    PBP or The Tour de France. Regards, Bernie
     
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