Gears needed and training plan for 5 day Alps Tour

[Davidneil]

Guidance required on gearing.

Started cycling seriously last year now nearing the age of 50 and doing a tour in the Alps in August for charity.

Have been advised to have gearing of either triple or 39x30 or 34/50 other than triple this means nothing to me although have Googled and still cant get my head around it.

I'm riding a Cannondale Caad 8 105, 2011 Model and building fitness quite well but will the existing gearing allow me to complete Alpe D’Huez, Col du telegraphe, Galibier, Col du Madeleine and 6 others.

A simplified gearing answer would be appreciated along with your thoughts for a training programme for the next 10 weeks. Longest ride done so far is 60 Miles which I found quite comfortable with the the Cresta de Gallio included which is used in La Vuelta although only Cat 3 climb.

 

[jpr95]

A "triple" means that you have 3 gears (AKA 'chainrings') in front. The numbers refer to the number of teeth on each chainring. The higher the number, the harder it is to push on the pedal. Lower numbers mean it is easier to pedal--and easier to climb hills. That is for the front.

For the rear, the opposite is true. The bigger the 'cog' (and higher the number), the easier it is to pedal.

For example, on my bike, I have a triple in front, with rings of 52, 39 and 30 teeth. In the rear, I have gears ranging from 11 teeth to 28 teeth.

When climbing steep hills, I will select the 30 front/28 rear combination, where I might be pedaling at 70 RPM, but only going 6 MPH.

Descending hills, I select the 52f/11r combination, pedaling 120 RPM, going 42 MPH.

For riding on level ground, I'm typically in the 39-tooth chainring in front, and maybe the 14-tooth rear gear, pedaling 85-90 RPM, and going maybe 20 MPH.

A 50/34 chainring in front is often referred to as a "compact double", compared to the typical double of 52/39, since both rings are physically smaller.

Jason

 

[Davidneil]

Thanks Jason, a very thorough and informative post, checked the speck on the Caad 8 which is FSA Gossamer BB30, 50/34 front and 12-27 rear.
Guess having the compact on the front 50/34 is keeping the top end speed down, but does allow a good amount of climbing with the 34 and 12-27 rear.

This is the recommendation we have been sent,

"We recommend a lowest gear of at least 42 x 34 or 39 x 30, but it also depends upon your fitness. If you have a triple chainset, it would be worth putting it on your bike. The climbs are not as steep as those in the UK, but they are very long. The Tour de France riders will use a 39 x 25 and they are racing"

So 1st numbers in their recommendations is the front cog being either 42 or 39, 2nd number rear cogs 34 or 30, so with my combination I can get a gearing of 34-27 so within their guidelines on front but not on rear as this may not give a low enough gear.

I know it will be on my fitness whether the set-up is OK for me but would most of the riders with a reasonable amount of fitness be able to cope with the set-up I have

Have I worked this out correctly, can anyone also help with a training plan.

DN

 

[jpr95]

Well, I'd work hard on your fitness for starters. There's no replacement for that.

There are drawbacks to very low gearing.

For one, triples in front can be a little fussy to adjust and shift. If you use a double, getting a good top end (a 52 chainring) limits what you can do for a lower chain ring in front. My old bike I switched to a 52/34 chain ring setup from a 52/40, and that has resulted in it being prone to throwing the chain. Not the end of the world, but an annoyance. Front derailleurs should have a published specification on difference in number of teeth it can handle between the two or three gears.

On the back, there is less downside, but you have to have a derailleur that can handle a large difference in gear diameter. There are 11-36 cassettes available (often made for mountain bikes), but they require a derailleur with an extra-long cage (that's the pulley that hangs way down in the rear).

Best thing you can do is to go find some hills similar to what you will be riding and see what you can do. If, after several attempts over the course of weeks or months, you don't find yourself able to climb said hills without getting off and walking, maybe some lower gears are in order. If you discover that you are able to just power up the hills, maybe even shifting up a gear or two from previous attempts, then you might not need to change what you have.

Jason

 

[vspa]

Originally Posted by Davidneil .
I'm riding a Cannondale Caad 8 105, 2011 Model and building fitness quite well but will the existing gearing allow me to complete Alpe D’Huez, Col du telegraphe, Galibier, Col du Madeleine and 6 others.

A simplified gearing answer would be appreciated along with your thoughts for a training programme for the next 10 weeks. Longest ride done so far is 60 Miles which I found quite comfortable with the the Cresta de Gallio included which is used in La Vuelta although only Cat 3 climb.

for the next 8 weeks keep doing that 60 miles ride at least once a week, ride the longest hill you can find also at least once a week or ride in one day smaller hills in repetitions, leave one day for a short recovery ride, after this block of training take it easy in the 9th week with recovery rides and make the 10th week a sort of warm up week testing yourself on flat and climbs but not hitting red area too much,

you will suffer like a cow on the "Hors Category" Climbs you are listing, nothing near the same as the cat. 3 climb you are currently doing,
your gearing is not too bad but if you have the money i would install the triple chainring option, like a MTB setup, specially because everyone of us has always long for that extra gear to make climbing to the top a bit easier to sustain,

 

[OldGoat]

Just so you know, your existing setup is within the guidelines you've been given. A 42x34 works out to 32.9 gear-inches; a 39x30 is 34.6 gear-inches. Your 34x27 falls in between at 33.5 gear-inches. To check these figures, just google "bicycle gear calculator", pick one (I used Mike Sherman's: http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html) and plug in the numbers. Create a hypothetical front crank with 42/39/30, and a hypothetical rear cassette with only 27/30/34.

Sheldon Brown's (R.I.P.) "gain ratio" calculator (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/) gives a similar result, with your existing setup having a 2.5 ratio, with the 42x34 also having a 2.5, and the 39x30 a 2.6 ratio.

Doesn't mean when climbing an Alp you won't wish for an "easier" gear combo than whatever you chose to take across the pond with you. I run triples on both of my road bikes, one with a 53/39/30 up front and an 11-28 in back, the other with a 50/39/30 up front and an 11-34 in back (requires long-cage "mountain" rear derailleur).

Good luck to you! Enjoy the trip!

 

[AlanG]

You a are getting a lot of good advice here but even though I'm not qualified in climbing mountains, I'll throw in my own 2 cents worth. I have a bike with a triple crank 52,39,30 and a 12-25 in back. I also have another bike with a 50, 34 compact and a 12-27 in back. I started climbing hills regularly last year and for many of them, at first I needed the 30 chain ring and 25 rear in back. But after a few months of strengthening, I now climb those same hills with the 39 chain ring and 25 or even 23 in back. And I don't miss the triple when riding the compact because it goes low enough for me. Both bikes use Ultegra shifters and derailleurs with FSA cranks.(SL-K triple and Gossamer on the compact.) And both shift smoothly and have stayed in adjustment. That being said, I think if I knew I would be climbing a lot of hills, let alone mountains, I would take the triple and also put the 12-27 cassette on it just to be covered. Maybe even see if I could use a cassette with a 32 or 34 with my derailleur.

The problem you have is that you will not be able to just put a triple chain ring on your bike. You will have to replace your left shifter, your crank with a triple crank, and most likely your rear derailleur to cover the added capacity. And also a triple front derailleur (105 front derailleurs come in double and triple versions so I don't think yours will work.) and longer chain. So this is a big deal as it is almost the entire drive train. A much simpler solution would be to stick with the compact double crank and get the biggest possible gear on the back. If you can make a 32 or 34 in back work with your derailleur, that will be the least expensive solution. Otherwise a different derailleur will be needed too. And a longer chain.

This basic article from Sheldon Brown might be useful to you and there are plenty more about gearing on that site and elsewhere.
http://sheldonbrown.com/gears.html

 

[Davidneil]

Thanks for the info guys.
Very informative, going to stick with the compact at present and see how things go in training.
Another of my training runs is 23 miles climbing 2048 feet on gravel tracks, at present I'm doing this on a heavy mountain bike and not allowing myself to drop into the granny cog, its tough but manageable so hoping this will help in building strength for the climbs in the Alps on the road bike.
Is this a wise training run or should I stick more to the roads and build up more distance.

 

[jpr95]

I'd do both--climbing isn't the same after you've put some miles on for a few days, or have already done some long climbs that day.

It's always recommended to train what you're going to do, but train beyond if you can. Then the actual event is easier (or you can go harder than you expected). You will probably get stronger in some way, shape or form during a long, multi-day tour, but at least for me, I lose some climbing ability during such events, though I end up pushing a higher average speed on the flats.

Jason

 

[Eichers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpr95 .
I'd do both--climbing isn't the same after you've put some miles on for a few days, or have already done some long climbs that day.

It's always recommended to train what you're going to do, but train beyond if you can. Then the actual event is easier (or you can go harder than you expected). You will probably get stronger in some way, shape or form during a long, multi-day tour, but at least for me, I lose some climbing ability during such events, though I end up pushing a higher average speed on the flats

+1

 

[JacoUK]

Davidneil, how did you tour go last year? What gears did you go with and how did you find?

I'm in a similar boat at the moment as we're doing a 6 day tour in the Alps in July. My Supersix has a 50x34 in front and the smallest cog at the back is a 27.

We're doing climbs such as Alpe d'Huez, Col du Telegraphe, Col du Galibier etc. Would really appreciate some advice from others that has done this kind of tour.

Many thanks

 

[swampy1970]

JacoUK,

It all depends on your weight and fitness. Most of the climbs in the Alps are not all that steep so if you're a skinny whippet (below 147lbs - or 10 1/2 st) it isn't all that bad. If you're unsure of your climbing prowess, find a local hill that's a couple of miles long that has some 1 in 8 (about 12%ish) sections and try and ride up them after riding fairly hard after a couple of hours on the bike. The key here is that it's preferable that you can do this in your bottom gear and it still not be a very hard effort when climbing.

The bottom of the Alpe has some sections that steep as well as another section after the town of Huez just over 1/2 way up. Towards the top of the Galibier there's some steep stuff too - add to that the effect of being over 8,000ft. The Galibier from the Lauteret isn't all that bad but...

The Telegraph and Galibier... that's the hard side and if you're not a mountain goat I'd either consider a triple or transplanting the rear mech for an XTR and getting an 11-32 cassette. That side of the Galibier is hard - a fact made even harder by the length of climb but the views are to die for if you get a clear day. It's the sheer amount of climbing at the altitude that make this much harder than Alpe d'Huez. The only advice I can give for that one is keep within your limits, fill up both bottles (take the big 24oz ones) at Valloire and pack a good waterproof jacket and some full fingered gloves. The weather up there can go from good to dangerously bad in the same amount of time you think "hmmmm, those clouds look a bit grim"

If you're not a climber and someone mentions "oh, lets go up the Col du Grannon" then pray that everyone else says "no." It's a brute of a climb that's just north of Briancon and has only been used in the Tour once - Bernard Hinault's last day in yellow the year that Greg Lemond first won - 1986. It's steep and long, crud road surface and features deceptive gradients - it's like the Electric Brae in Scotland - you swear that it's not that steep until you feel the burn in your legs and go to change gear and discover that you're already in the big cog.



It Col d'Izoard to the south of Briancon is a Tour legend and has awesome views especially the scree slopes up near the casse deserte. The side from Briancon is the easier of the two but to get to the casse deserte you'll need to go over the top and down the otherside a bit. Worth it for the views though. Epic.

If you're not a lightweight chap - consider switching your training up to help you lose some weight rather than going on an all out quest to increase your aerobic fitness.

If you're not mechanically inclined then make your final adjustments to your bike a few weeks before the trip, unless you have to dismantle the bike to get it in a bike case for the trip out. Don't go out on worn tires as it's a long way to the nearest bike store from the top of the Galibier...

 

[Davidneil]

JacoUK

Tour in the Alps was one of the best things I have ever done, the scenery if the weather is kind to you will blow you away. The first couple days I paced myself with riders who had done the tour in previous years as confidence grew I found my pace increasing.

I developed IT Band trouble but with massage by the tour guide was still able to complete, start stretching exercises now, do a google for the best type to do for cyclist,

The knowledge of the guides was incredible and they would talk through the climbs the evening before so we were aware of what was to greet us the next day.

Being a tour we had our coffee and photo stops so all was manageable.

The longest day was 79 miles which was tough as we also had a strong head wind to contend with and 2 1/2 Cols climbed

Before the tour I knew nothing of electrolyte or recovery drinks, use both along with energy bars, without this advice I probably would have struggled.

Gearing worked OK but am just looking at changing my bike "Aluminium Cannondale" to a lighter Carbon bike and getting a 28 on the rear instead of 27, this will be used in the Haute Route 800km from Geneva to Nice in August with 21000mtrs of climbing so you can see I've got the bug.

For this race I have a training plan provided by WTS which includes many different types of training activities which is working really well. (A very good investment for the longer race like the Haute Route)

All the climbs are very do-able with correct planning and pacing.

Above all enjoy, you can check out a video I made at http://vimeo.com/28978071