General purpose bike for heavy, tall rider



J

Jasper Janssen

Guest
Hi,

I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though not too
long, unless my health situation improves markedly).

I figure that if 37/622 isn't nearly wide enough for my weight, I need
something with MTB wheels. My local really big bike shop (LRBBS),
www.sneltweewielers.nl , makes trekking bikes to order[2] with 559 rims.
http://www.sneltweewielers.nl/producten/fietsen/toer/savanne.php is the
basis, although I'll want a version that's a bit more fleshed out in the
fender & lock department.

They also offer a 40 spoke option for MTB wheels (622s are available in
36, 40, or 48). My current beater bike, with steel-rimmed, 36 spoke 622
wheels, breaks spokes occasionally -- but it's not a very well made wheel.
I suspect that a well-built 36-spoke MTB wheel will keep me, as long as I
don't do anything too wild. Comments?

Will Deore components be strong enough or should I really go for the ~$180
more expensive LX? I figure that perhaps if I get the rear hub in LX or XT
to start with[1], anything else that breaks too soon I can easily replace
with LX or XT components if and when necessary, keeping in mind that a
whole LX group without the hubs is only 250 euros (~$300) on the 'net.

For that matter, the price difference between the Alivio model and the LX
model is more than the straight up price of an LX group at an internet
dealer, although I suspect that there might be negotiating room in there.

So, to sum up: criteria are: strong, reliable, not too expensive, don't
much care about weight. Are there any points that I haven't mentioned that
I should pay serious attention to?


Jasper

[1] The front hub will be a 36h Shimano Nexus Inter-L, because I want
lights, I don't want a bottle dynamo or Yet More Batteries, and I'm not
going to splash for a SON.

[2] They do frames to measure, as well, but that's another 5-600 extra.
 
Per Jasper Janssen:
> my weight


?
--
PeteCresswell
 
"Jasper Janssen" wrote: (clip) My local really big bike shop (LRBBS), (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that the bicycle equivalent of a "big and tall" clothing store?
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:

> I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
> for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
> like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though n ot too
> long, unless my health situation improves markedly).


I don't know the situation in .nl, but if it's the same as elsewhere,
you can reduce the risk of theft dramatically by going with a drop-bar
bike instead of a flat bar bike. Much better for longer rides too.

How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of
tiny. Of course they will work though. You have to be extremely heavy
for 36 spokes not to be enough: a racing rim like a 622-13 with 36
14/15 or 15/16 spokes should be able to support about 400kg max; so a
total weight of about 100-125kg should allow for rather a large safety
margin. A 36H 622-17 is even stronger. With this and 37 tires you can
handle really big loads. Spoke breakage? No wheel should fail this way.
Read this book:
http://tinyurl.com/3tars
(in English or German) and you will understand what to look for, or
perhaps even decide to build your own.


> Will Deore components be strong enough


For derailleurs and hubs, just about anything from a major manufacturer
should be more than strong enough. More money may get you things like
easier maintenance and adjustment, greater precision- or not. What
you need to watch are bars and stem and chainsets/BB. Other people here
can give you better guidance for these, but probably for what you are
looking at you won't have too much trouble.

I'm not much of a fan of trekking bikes so I'm biased. I can't help but
think that if I weighed 2-3x what I do now, I would look at something
like this instead:

http://tinyurl.com/cy6va

You can use flat or drop bars with it, huge or skinny tires, full
fenders. A builder closer to home (Netherlands or UK) should be able to
custom build you something similar. For UK builders at least, I believe
you should be able to do quite well for 1300 euros.‡
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:

> I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
> for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
> like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though n ot too
> long, unless my health situation improves markedly).


I don't know the situation in .nl, but if it's the same as elsewhere,
you can reduce the risk of theft dramatically by going with a drop-bar
bike instead of a flat bar bike. Much better for longer rides too.

How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of
tiny. Of course they will work though. You have to be extremely heavy
for 36 spokes not to be enough: a racing rim like a 622-13 with 36
14/15 or 15/16 spokes should be able to support about 400kg max; so a
total weight of about 100-125kg should allow for rather a large safety
margin. A 36H 622-17 is even stronger. With this and 37 tires you can
handle really big loads. Spoke breakage? No wheel should fail this way.
Read this book:
http://tinyurl.com/3tars
(in English or German) and you will understand what to look for, or
perhaps even decide to build your own.


> Will Deore components be strong enough


For derailleurs and hubs, just about anything from a major manufacturer
should be more than strong enough. More money may get you things like
easier maintenance and adjustment, greater precision- or not. What
you need to watch are bars and stem and chainsets/BB. Other people here
can give you better guidance for these, but probably for what you are
looking at you won't have too much trouble.

I'm not much of a fan of trekking bikes so I'm biased. I can't help but
think that if I weighed 2-3x what I do now, I would look at something
like this instead:

http://tinyurl.com/cy6va

You can use flat or drop bars with it, huge or skinny tires, full
fenders. A builder closer to home (Netherlands or UK) should be able to
custom build you something similar. For UK builders at least, I believe
you should be able to do quite well for 1300 euros.‡
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:

> I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
> for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
> like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though n ot too
> long, unless my health situation improves markedly).


I don't know the situation in .nl, but if it's the same as elsewhere,
you can reduce the risk of theft dramatically by going with a drop-bar
bike instead of a flat bar bike. Much better for longer rides too.

How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of
tiny. Of course they will work though. You have to be extremely heavy
for 36 spokes not to be enough: a racing rim like a 622-13 with 36
14/15 or 15/16 spokes should be able to support about 400kg max; so a
total weight of about 100-125kg should allow for rather a large safety
margin. A 36H 622-17 is even stronger. With this and 37 tires you can
handle really big loads. Spoke breakage? No wheel should fail this way.
Read this book:
http://tinyurl.com/3tars
(in English or German) and you will understand what to look for, or
perhaps even decide to build your own.


> Will Deore components be strong enough


For derailleurs and hubs, just about anything from a major manufacturer
should be more than strong enough. More money may get you things like
easier maintenance and adjustment, greater precision- or not. What
you need to watch are bars and stem and chainsets/BB. Other people here
can give you better guidance for these, but probably for what you are
looking at you won't have too much trouble.

I'm not much of a fan of trekking bikes so I'm biased. I can't help but
think that if I weighed 2-3x what I do now, I would look at something
like this instead:

http://tinyurl.com/cy6va

You can use flat or drop bars with it, huge or skinny tires, full
fenders. A builder closer to home (Netherlands or UK) should be able to
custom build you something similar. For UK builders at least, I believe
you should be able to do quite well for 1300 euros.‡
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:

> I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
> for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
> like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though n ot too
> long, unless my health situation improves markedly).


I don't know the situation in .nl, but if it's the same as elsewhere,
you can reduce the risk of theft dramatically by going with a drop-bar
bike instead of a flat bar bike. Much better for longer rides too.

How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of
tiny. Of course they will work though. You have to be extremely heavy
for 36 spokes not to be enough: a racing rim like a 622-13 with 36
14/15 or 15/16 spokes should be able to support about 400kg max; so a
total weight of about 100-125kg should allow for rather a large safety
margin. A 36H 622-17 is even stronger. With this and 37 tires you can
handle really big loads. Spoke breakage? No wheel should fail this way.
Read this book:
http://tinyurl.com/3tars
(in English or German) and you will understand what to look for, or
perhaps even decide to build your own.


> Will Deore components be strong enough


For derailleurs and hubs, just about anything from a major manufacturer
should be more than strong enough. More money may get you things like
easier maintenance and adjustment, greater precision- or not. What
you need to watch are bars and stem and chainsets/BB. Other people here
can give you better guidance for these, but probably for what you are
looking at you won't have too much trouble.

I'm not much of a fan of trekking bikes so I'm biased. I can't help but
think that if I weighed 2-3x what I do now, I would look at something
like this instead:

http://tinyurl.com/cy6va

You can use flat or drop bars with it, huge or skinny tires, full
fenders. A builder closer to home (Netherlands or UK) should be able to
custom build you something similar. For UK builders at least, I believe
you should be able to do quite well for 1300 euros.‡
 
On 25 Jul 2005 06:24:23 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
>> I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
>> for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
>> like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though n ot too
>> long, unless my health situation improves markedly).

>
>I don't know the situation in .nl, but if it's the same as elsewhere,
>you can reduce the risk of theft dramatically by going with a drop-bar
>bike instead of a flat bar bike. Much better for longer rides too.


Not my thing, although I'll be looking for bars that give me various
options for hand placement -- certainly not just straight flat bars. Those
suck after 10 minutes or less. These bikes can be easily built up with
drop bars, should I ever change my mind on that, though.

Incidentally, the only drop bar bikes I ever see at the store (as in,
people taking them to go shopping) are ones that are being ridden by the
homeless or ones that *look* like they're being ridden by the homeless;
which isn't a *guarantee* that they've been stolen at some point, but it
kinda points in that direction. We have 16 million people, 17 million
bikes, and something just under a million estimated bike thefts a year
(with something like a few dozen percent or so reported to the police).

>How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of


6'4.5" according to google calculator, and about 300 lbs. Yes, it's too
much. I'm hoping the shiny! new! toy! will encourage me to ride more and
drop some of that, as well, although most of the actual gain coincided
with some medical problems I have that aren't particularly relevant here.

>tiny. Of course they will work though. You have to be extremely heavy


Incidentally, 47/559 and 20/622 gets you to virtually the same outer
diameter, just a percent or so difference. The difference between 47/559
and 37/622 is slightly larger, but not all that much.

>for 36 spokes not to be enough: a racing rim like a 622-13 with 36
>14/15 or 15/16 spokes should be able to support about 400kg max; so a
>total weight of about 100-125kg should allow for rather a large safety
>margin. A 36H 622-17 is even stronger. With this and 37 tires you can
>handle really big loads. Spoke breakage? No wheel should fail this way.
>Read this book:
>http://tinyurl.com/3tars
>(in English or German) and you will understand what to look for, or
>perhaps even decide to build your own.


I have the book, but I'm not going to build my own (this time, at least),
and like I said, they're badly (factory-)built wheels. That's what you get
under 3-speed .nl-made beaters. That said, even that breaks spokes fairly
rarely; but it's an enormous pain to replace spokes on a rear wheel with a
drum brake attachment and cable on one side, the Sturmey three speed
thingies on the other, no quickrelease, and a fully enclosed chaincase
that has to come off in the most annoying fashion possible (in the case of
my current one, the tie wraps that hold it together since the plastic tabs
have broken off need to be cut) -- oh, and track ends, just to make
removing the wheel without breaking the chain a problem.

The wheel under my previous beater (whose frame broke, the seat tube
separating from the bracket) was worse. But, and here's the real issue,
with 37/622 at 5 bar under my beater I'm not happy with how far the rear
tire sags (and I'm sure that would be helped with a less upright posture,
as well, but one thing at a time).

With 6 bar in it (which was pretty ok, I expect ideal would be around
5.5-6 or so in a 37/622), the bead lifted off and I had an explosion in
the hallway (not while I was right next to it, thankfully. it was quite
loud enough from the other room). Admittedly, also crappy tires rather
than good ones, but looking at for example Conti Top Touring specs in
37-622 those are only allowed to be inflated to 70 pounds per square inch
= 4.83 bar. Presumably they could probably *stand* at least 6 bar without
too many problems, but, staying with conti, a Travel Contact 47-559 that
can be inflated to 85 pounds per square inch = 5.86 bar (presumably
because the smaller bead is less likely to lift off) is probably going to
be better suited.

>> Will Deore components be strong enough

>
>For derailleurs and hubs, just about anything from a major manufacturer
>should be more than strong enough. More money may get you things like
>easier maintenance and adjustment, greater precision- or not. What
>you need to watch are bars and stem and chainsets/BB. Other people here
>can give you better guidance for these, but probably for what you are
>looking at you won't have too much trouble.


Yeah, that's what I figured. Alivio's ugly, though, with an ugly name, and
a mere 8 speeds in rear. :)

>I'm not much of a fan of trekking bikes so I'm biased. I can't help but
>think that if I weighed 2-3x what I do now, I would look at something
>like this instead:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/cy6va
>
>You can use flat or drop bars with it, huge or skinny tires, full
>fenders. A builder closer to home (Netherlands or UK) should be able to
>custom build you something similar. For UK builders at least, I believe
>you should be able to do quite well for 1300 euros.‡


The Rivendell lugged frames *are* exceedingly pretty, but in terms of
capabilities it's not that far from the Snel, both are good quality butted
Chromoly using a traditional threaded headset -- although the Snel has
more relaxed geometry and longer stays for a longer wheelbase, which is
more my thing anyway. I don't much like extreme cornering at speed, nor do
I enjoy seeking the limits of traction -- with my luck there's always
going to be water, ice, or pebbles right where I can least handle it.

One thing that I like about the Snel is that they appear knowledgeable,
including in the special demands of the whole weight thing (they also make
bikes for people up to 7'6", with 80 or more cm frame heights), and I very
much doubt I'll have the problem with it that I have occasionally had of
the seat post sliding into the seat tube despite however hard you tighten
(alu seatposts should help there, too, chromed steel is on the slippery
side), or as it was the other day the top of the seatpost shearing off,
or.. well, whatever. Things like pedal eyelets and pedal axles, which I
break with rather shocking regularity[1], are presumably also stronger in
an MTB format than in a chinese-three-speed-cheapest-bidder type.


Jasper

[1] And by shocking I mean that, especially for the mileage I do on my
beater, I clearly stress the at least somewhat hardened steel pedal axles
beyond the fatigue limit in regular use. I break a pedal axle (again,
these are the cheap rubber-block-type chinese pedals) about once or twice
a year.
 
On 25 Jul 2005 06:24:23 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
>> I've finally got together the money for a decent new bike, to be used both
>> for utility shopping use (though I'll keep the beater for high-risk things
>> like the movie theater at night) as well as longer rides (though n ot too
>> long, unless my health situation improves markedly).

>
>I don't know the situation in .nl, but if it's the same as elsewhere,
>you can reduce the risk of theft dramatically by going with a drop-bar
>bike instead of a flat bar bike. Much better for longer rides too.


Not my thing, although I'll be looking for bars that give me various
options for hand placement -- certainly not just straight flat bars. Those
suck after 10 minutes or less. These bikes can be easily built up with
drop bars, should I ever change my mind on that, though.

Incidentally, the only drop bar bikes I ever see at the store (as in,
people taking them to go shopping) are ones that are being ridden by the
homeless or ones that *look* like they're being ridden by the homeless;
which isn't a *guarantee* that they've been stolen at some point, but it
kinda points in that direction. We have 16 million people, 17 million
bikes, and something just under a million estimated bike thefts a year
(with something like a few dozen percent or so reported to the police).

>How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of


6'4.5" according to google calculator, and about 300 lbs. Yes, it's too
much. I'm hoping the shiny! new! toy! will encourage me to ride more and
drop some of that, as well, although most of the actual gain coincided
with some medical problems I have that aren't particularly relevant here.

>tiny. Of course they will work though. You have to be extremely heavy


Incidentally, 47/559 and 20/622 gets you to virtually the same outer
diameter, just a percent or so difference. The difference between 47/559
and 37/622 is slightly larger, but not all that much.

>for 36 spokes not to be enough: a racing rim like a 622-13 with 36
>14/15 or 15/16 spokes should be able to support about 400kg max; so a
>total weight of about 100-125kg should allow for rather a large safety
>margin. A 36H 622-17 is even stronger. With this and 37 tires you can
>handle really big loads. Spoke breakage? No wheel should fail this way.
>Read this book:
>http://tinyurl.com/3tars
>(in English or German) and you will understand what to look for, or
>perhaps even decide to build your own.


I have the book, but I'm not going to build my own (this time, at least),
and like I said, they're badly (factory-)built wheels. That's what you get
under 3-speed .nl-made beaters. That said, even that breaks spokes fairly
rarely; but it's an enormous pain to replace spokes on a rear wheel with a
drum brake attachment and cable on one side, the Sturmey three speed
thingies on the other, no quickrelease, and a fully enclosed chaincase
that has to come off in the most annoying fashion possible (in the case of
my current one, the tie wraps that hold it together since the plastic tabs
have broken off need to be cut) -- oh, and track ends, just to make
removing the wheel without breaking the chain a problem.

The wheel under my previous beater (whose frame broke, the seat tube
separating from the bracket) was worse. But, and here's the real issue,
with 37/622 at 5 bar under my beater I'm not happy with how far the rear
tire sags (and I'm sure that would be helped with a less upright posture,
as well, but one thing at a time).

With 6 bar in it (which was pretty ok, I expect ideal would be around
5.5-6 or so in a 37/622), the bead lifted off and I had an explosion in
the hallway (not while I was right next to it, thankfully. it was quite
loud enough from the other room). Admittedly, also crappy tires rather
than good ones, but looking at for example Conti Top Touring specs in
37-622 those are only allowed to be inflated to 70 pounds per square inch
= 4.83 bar. Presumably they could probably *stand* at least 6 bar without
too many problems, but, staying with conti, a Travel Contact 47-559 that
can be inflated to 85 pounds per square inch = 5.86 bar (presumably
because the smaller bead is less likely to lift off) is probably going to
be better suited.

>> Will Deore components be strong enough

>
>For derailleurs and hubs, just about anything from a major manufacturer
>should be more than strong enough. More money may get you things like
>easier maintenance and adjustment, greater precision- or not. What
>you need to watch are bars and stem and chainsets/BB. Other people here
>can give you better guidance for these, but probably for what you are
>looking at you won't have too much trouble.


Yeah, that's what I figured. Alivio's ugly, though, with an ugly name, and
a mere 8 speeds in rear. :)

>I'm not much of a fan of trekking bikes so I'm biased. I can't help but
>think that if I weighed 2-3x what I do now, I would look at something
>like this instead:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/cy6va
>
>You can use flat or drop bars with it, huge or skinny tires, full
>fenders. A builder closer to home (Netherlands or UK) should be able to
>custom build you something similar. For UK builders at least, I believe
>you should be able to do quite well for 1300 euros.‡


The Rivendell lugged frames *are* exceedingly pretty, but in terms of
capabilities it's not that far from the Snel, both are good quality butted
Chromoly using a traditional threaded headset -- although the Snel has
more relaxed geometry and longer stays for a longer wheelbase, which is
more my thing anyway. I don't much like extreme cornering at speed, nor do
I enjoy seeking the limits of traction -- with my luck there's always
going to be water, ice, or pebbles right where I can least handle it.

One thing that I like about the Snel is that they appear knowledgeable,
including in the special demands of the whole weight thing (they also make
bikes for people up to 7'6", with 80 or more cm frame heights), and I very
much doubt I'll have the problem with it that I have occasionally had of
the seat post sliding into the seat tube despite however hard you tighten
(alu seatposts should help there, too, chromed steel is on the slippery
side), or as it was the other day the top of the seatpost shearing off,
or.. well, whatever. Things like pedal eyelets and pedal axles, which I
break with rather shocking regularity[1], are presumably also stronger in
an MTB format than in a chinese-three-speed-cheapest-bidder type.


Jasper

[1] And by shocking I mean that, especially for the mileage I do on my
beater, I clearly stress the at least somewhat hardened steel pedal axles
beyond the fatigue limit in regular use. I break a pedal axle (again,
these are the cheap rubber-block-type chinese pedals) about once or twice
a year.
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2005 06:24:23 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Jasper Janssen wrote:


> Incidentally, the only drop bar bikes I ever see at the store (as in,
> people taking them to go shopping) are ones that are being ridden by the
> homeless or ones that *look* like they're being ridden by the homeless;
> which isn't a *guarantee* that they've been stolen at some point, but it
> kinda points in that direction.


I suggest it's rather that they are cast-offs (unwanted bikes). If they
had been stolen, the riders would be more upscale. Thieves steal
popular and desirable bikes, the homeless have no money to pay for them
or to buy the tools necessary to steal them. And if they had the
knowledge to steal those tools, they likely wouldn't be homeless. The
homeless are not at the bottom of the barrel because they are so shrewd
as to be able to rip people off so well. Crooks are doing a little
better! Often they are at the top of the ladder.

>We have 16 million people, 17 million
> bikes, and something just under a million estimated bike thefts a year
> (with something like a few dozen percent or so reported to the police).


So why isn't this a political issue and why isn't something, or many
things, being done about it? The only thing I ever read about this is
that ordinary people in the Netherlands steal bikes all the time,
because they need one for a trip and their own just got stolen, and
those black beauties are all the same anyway. Any truth to that?


> >How big and how tall? For really tall riders, 559 rims are kind of tiny

>
> 6'4.5" according to google calculator, and about 300 lbs.


Chalo Cholina here is 6'8" with weight between 200+ and 400+ lbs.
Search for his posts and his solutions to such problems. Also look at
what he says in a recent thread here "how much weight on a Bianchi Eros
frame" or some such.

> with 37/622 at 5 bar under my beater I'm not happy with how far the rear
> tire sags (and I'm sure that would be helped with a less upright posture,
> as well, but one thing at a time).
>
> With 6 bar in it (which was pretty ok, I expect ideal would be around
> 5.5-6 or so in a 37/622), the bead lifted off and I had an explosion in
> the hallway (not while I was right next to it, thankfully. it was quite
> loud enough from the other room). Admittedly, also crappy tires rather
> than good ones, but looking at for example Conti Top Touring specs in
> 37-622 those are only allowed to be inflated to 70 pounds per square inch
> = 4.83 bar. Presumably they could probably *stand* at least 6 bar without
> too many problems, but, staying with conti, a Travel Contact 47-559 that
> can be inflated to 85 pounds per square inch = 5.86 bar (presumably
> because the smaller bead is less likely to lift off) is probably going to
> be better suited.


Conti TTs are routinely inflated to 90-95psi, that 70psi is pretty well
ignored. But if I were your size I would get something different- and
something less knobbly than either that or Travel Contact. If the bead
lifted off on the other tire, something was wrong with it or the
installation. One problem with tires with low TPI, like the Conti TT
and many other Conti's, is that, at high pressure, when going over an
obstacle, the threads break, leading to a lump in the tire. In any case
their are plenty of wider tires in 700. Schwalbe Big Apple? I suppose
though it doesn't matter too much whether you choose 26 or 700: go for
the rim and tire combination that you like.



> One thing that I like about the Snel is that they appear knowledgeable,
> inc luding in the special demands of the whole weight thing (they also make
> bikes for people up to 7'6", with 80 or more cm frame heights), and I very
> much doubt I'll have the problem with it that I have occasionally had of
> the seat post sliding into th e seat tube despite however hard you tighten
> (alu seatposts should help there, too, chromed steel is on the slippery
> side), or as it was the other day the top of the seatpost shearing off,
> or.. well, whatever. Things like pedal eyelets and pedal axl es, which I
> break with rather shocking regularity[1], are presumably also stronger in
> an MTB format than in a chinese-three-speed-cheapest-bidder type.


The Alu seatpost will have to be greased anyway, and so be even
slipperier. That it didn't hold indicates a mismatch, either in
diameter or roundness. Seatpost shearing off? Possibly because of a
poor design of the seat lug, too much seatpost showing, or a poor
seatpost. But if it is chrome steel, that should be plenty strong if it
is properly fixed in the tube. Pedal eyes? You need the Jobst Brandt
modification, which has to be done at a machine shop. Search his name
and "pedal eyes" or "pedal crank interface" and you should find. Pedal
Axles? They are all the same diameter, you will only get a better
steel. Again search for Chalo Cholina's posts.
o
 
On 29 Jul 2005 08:42:27 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jasper Janssen wrote:


>> Incidentally, the only drop bar bikes I ever see at the store (as in,
>> people taking them to go shopping) are ones that are being ridden by the
>> homeless or ones that *look* like they're being ridden by the homeless;
>> which isn't a *guarantee* that they've been stolen at some point, but it
>> kinda points in that direction.

>
>I suggest it's rather that they are cast-offs (unwanted bikes). If they
>had been stolen, the riders would be more upscale. Thieves steal
>popular and desirable bikes,


Actually, no. Well, those also, but a lot of thefts are simply the best
looking one with the least amount of locks (that would generally be one
with an AXA ringlock, FWIW) in a given bike rack (with a hundred or so to
choose from).

>the homeless have no money to pay for them
>or to buy the tools necessary to steal them. And if they had the
>knowledge to steal those tools, they likely wouldn't be homeless. The
>homeless are not at the bottom of the barrel because they are so shrewd
>as to be able to rip people off so well. Crooks are doing a little
>better! Often they are at the top of the ladder.


Like hell they are. Real crooks, maybe. Bike theft, OTOH.. 90% of bike
thefts are down to 10% of the offenders, and they'd steal several bikes a
week to several per day. Vast majority of them are junkies, so the going
price for a stolen bike direct from the thief is heavily dependent on the
going streetprice for a shot of heroin. $10-20 or so.

The equipment needed to steal bikes ranges from a $5 boltcutter to a
broken off set of bars from another bike, plus some knowledge, mainly in
selecting the bike. In other words less than a night in the shelter, and
more than you get from a day of begging.

There may be the bike equivalent of "stealing on spec" going on, where
$1000+ bikes guarded by $200 worth of locks are separated from the world
by an anglegrinder and loaded in a van to be disposed of in Belgium or
Germany, but the majority is theft of commuter bikes, for commuters,
people who don't give a **** what the bike does as long as it goes forward
when you pedal and the tires have air in them, since they're only going
1000 meters or so anyway, so who cares if the bike fits right or what
gears it has?.

>>We have 16 million people, 17 million
>> bikes, and something just under a million estimated bike thefts a year
>> (with something like a few dozen percent or so reported to the police).

>
>So why isn't this a political issue and why isn't something, or many
>things, being done about it?


It's been like that forever. Or at least since WWII, when Heinz's
grandpappie stole my grandpappie's bike on a massive scale. People
occasionally try to organise something against it, but it tends to end up
in the dumps. Currently there's just been Yet Another Plan to link all the
police databases in the country to aid in return rates. Some 400.000 bikes
a year are actually recovered by the police, but the vast majority never
reach their owners. Last time I reported a theft, I was told that if I
brought a copy of the report I'd be allowed into the recovered-bikes shed
in order to search out mine, if it was there. Didn't bother going, though.

Bike insurance, for a 1500 euro bike with full-price payout, 3 years
theft, costs ~ 250 euros if like me you live in one of the big cities.
Theft & damage for 3 years is more like 400.

>The only thing I ever read about this is
>that ordinary people in the Netherlands steal bikes all the time,
>because they need one for a trip and their own just got stolen, and
>those black beauties are all the same anyway. Any truth to that?


Especially among the younger people, who are generally a bit less well
padded in the wallet, yeah. It's not that everything's interchangeable,
but they certainly get treated as such. Most of them aren't black, either,
though. I believe the statistic I read the other day is that of those
who've had a bike stolen, 30% admit (in an anonymous poll) to stealing
bikes, as opposed to 10% of the general population.

>> One thing that I like about the Snel is that they appear knowledgeable,
>> inc luding in the special demands of the whole weight thing (they also make
>> bikes for people up to 7'6", with 80 or more cm frame heights), and I very
>> much doubt I'll have the problem with it that I have occasionally had of
>> the seat post sliding into th e seat tube despite however hard you tighten
>> (alu seatposts should help there, too, chromed steel is on the slippery
>> side), or as it was the other day the top of the seatpost shearing off,
>> or.. well, whatever. Things like pedal eyelets and pedal axl es, which I
>> break with rather shocking regularity[1], are presumably also stronger in
>> an MTB format than in a chinese-three-speed-cheapest-bidder type.

>
>The Alu seatpost will have to be greased anyway, and so be even
>slipperier.


Well, I dunno. Greased steel/alu contact isn't *that* slippery if it's
clamped hard.

>That it didn't hold indicates a mismatch, either in
>diameter or roundness.


Yeah, pretty sure. The seattube clamp bottoms out before it grips
properly, so I'll see what I can do there.

>Seatpost shearing off? Possibly because of a
>poor design of the seat lug, too much seatpost showing, or a poor
>seatpost.


Well, the saddle clamp (old pipe-style seatpost, you know the type?)
deformed the top bit of the seatpost, and that's where the whole thing
tore in two. But when I had a smaller frame, and tried to compensate for
that with a longish seatpost (25 cm showing or so), that twice led to the
pipe-style seatpost simply bending over after about 30 seconds, right at
the seat lug. So I'm not that confident in how strong that stuff is.

>But if it is chrome steel, that should be plenty strong if it
>is properly fixed in the tube. Pedal eyes? You need the Jobst Brandt
>modification, which has to be done at a machine shop. Search his name
>and "pedal eyes" or "pedal crank interface" and you should find.


That's one I figure I'll do if I keep killing them on a regular basis when
I have cranks that cost more than $20.


Jasper
 
On 29 Jul 2005 08:42:27 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Conti TTs are routinely inflated to 90-95psi, that 70psi is pretty well
>ignored. But if I were your size I would get something different- and
>something less knobbly than either that or Travel Contact. If the bead
>lifted off on the other tire, something was wrong with it or the
>installation.


Rim probably wasn't a hook bead, for starters. Plus, very cheap tire.
Department-store level.

>One problem with tires with low TPI, like the Conti TT
>and many other Conti's, is that, at high pressure, when going over an
>obstacle, the threads break, leading to a lump in the tire. In any case
>their are plenty of wider tires in 700. Schwalbe Big Apple? I suppose
>though it doesn't matter too much whether you choose 26 or 700: go for
>the rim and tire combination that you like.


The Snel standard touring bike frames, at least, have maximum widths of
622/47 and 559/~56, they say when I asked. That just eliminates the Big
Apple(even in 559 version), sadly, although I know they do make custom
frames that can take them.

I believe I've seen pictures of a custom bike from them made for biking
across the Sahara (and it made it, too), 559 wheels with 2 or 3 inch tires
(Big Apples or big Nokians, IIRC), bottle cages designed to take 1.5 liter
Spa bottles, a trailer with the same wheels for another few dozen liters
of water, and some more heavy duty ****. I wish I could find the url
again.


Jasper
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:

> The Snel standard touring bike frames, at least, have maximum widths of
> 622/47 and 559/~56, they say when I asked. That just eliminates the Big
> Apple(even in 559 version), sadly, although I know they do make custom
> frames that can take them.


I do believe Cholina rides 622-47 top tourings. Should be more than
enough for you!u
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On 29 Jul 2005 08:42:27 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Jasper Janssen wrote:


> 90% of bike
> thefts are down to 10% of the offenders, and they'd steal several bikes a
> week to several per day. Vast majority of them are junkies, so the going
> price for a stolen bike d irect from the thief is heavily dependent on the
> going streetprice for a shot of heroin. $10-20 or so.


Ah, I understand now. Economic and criminal profiles where you are, are
different from elsewhere I know, where "homeless" and "junkie" are
rather more distinct: the former being those who've lost their homes
due to the economy or to mental illness, the latter being teenagers who
do have homes but don't like the parents that go with them. I guess
also NL has a much bigger junkie problem than anywhere I've been.

> in the dumps. Currently there's just been Yet Another Plan to link all the
> police databases in t he country to aid in return rates.


In e.g. northeastern USA and southeastern Canada what's really needed
is video surveillance of key locations and sting operations, because
large-scale bike theft is part of organized crime. In NL I guess you
have to solve the junkie problem and the cheap lock problem and the
attitude problem.


> Greased steel/alu contact isn't *that* slippery if it's
> clamped hard.


Granted. But having used chrome steel seatposts in the past, I don't
think they should be that slippery either. 0
 
On 1 Aug 2005 07:27:57 -0700, "41" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
>> The Snel standard touring bike frames, at least, have maximum widths of
>> 622/47 and 559/~56, they say when I asked. That just eliminates the Big
>> Apple(even in 559 version), sadly, although I know they do make custom
>> frames that can take them.

>
>I do believe Cholina rides 622-47 top tourings. Should be more than
>enough for you!u


Good point.

Jasper