generator lights for commuting how good are they?

[Sirrus Rider]

How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
to say Niterider evolution smart lights?


John

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Sirrus Rider" <[email protected]> wrote:

> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano
> Nexus, Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do
> they compare to say Niterider evolution smart lights?

Must be time for another r.b.t religious war.

I use a Schmidt SON on one bike and I have an old Sanyo BB generator on
another. I greatly prefer generator lights to battery powered lights.
The convenience is unbeatable- the light is always there and available
at the flick of a switch. You don't have to plan ahead to have lights.
Cold weather doesn't reduce your run time. You don't have to
periodically replace the energy source when it won't hold a charge. You
don't have to strap a battery pack onto the frame or give up one of your
water bottle cages.

OTOH if you think you need huge light to accomplish an hour's commute,
then generator lights aren't for you. Some people fiercely believe that
10W is the absolute minimum acceptable. The "more is better" school of
thought is strong. I find that I see *better* with a 3W light, as the
bright bounceback from near objects with high-powered lights interferes
with my night vision. I have sold all my high-powered battery lights
and have just the two generators and a Cateye 2.4W HL-500 for the other
bike.

Night vision is something to take into account. Some people adapt to
dark conditions better than others, and I seem to have good night
vision. I find my 3W lights perfectly adequate for riding from dusk
till dawn on unfamiliar roads, and don;t feel like I am outrunning my
light on fast descents.

Other people will tell you something else. Take all opinions with a
grain of salt.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 26, 2:40 am, "Sirrus Rider"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?
>
> John

I don't commute by bicycle, but I do ride at night after work when the
weather is cooperative. Might be some similarities. I have the
Shimano DH-3N71 hub. This hub seems to have plenty of drag. If I had
the choice, I'd pay the extra $120 for the Schmidt hub. I did not have
the choice based upon the method I acquired my setup. I have two
Schmidt E6 lights mounted right by the front hub on Minoura Besso fork
mounts. Schmidt E6 lights provide good usable light. The secondary
does not really add much extra light over the primary E6 so it could be
ommitted and you really would not know the difference. Schmidt ights
are $100 each. Mounting brackets are $15-25 per light. Shimano hub
wheel is $200. Schmidt hub wheel is $320. Plus tire and tube and rim
strip. You are basically looking at $475-600 for a very nice usable
generator hub light setup with quality lights. The lights are the key.
Its Pound foolish, Penny wise to pay $200-320 for a generator hub
wheel and then put a dim worthless $30 B&M Lumotec light onto it. The
light is what you use and see with. The light is what you are paying
for. Put a cheap garbage light on the expensive Schmidt wheel and it
will produce pathetic unusable light. Put a Schmidt E6 light on a
cheap junk Union sidewall generator and it will produce great light.
Both generators produce 6 volts of electricity. Electricity is
electricity.

If you commute a lot or ride at night a lot or want a simple always
ready system for brevets, then the expensive generator and light setup
is probably worth it. The HID lights are much brighter. The 15 watt
halogen lights are a bit brighter. The two Schmidt E6 lights are just
as good for actually riding and as usable. But in situations with
ambient light or car lights or street lights, the E6 lights cannot
overcome the shadows the ambient light produces. You're somewhat
blinded with just the E6 lights. You are better off with the more
powerful, brighter HID or halogen lights with ambient light. In
commuting you probably need two sets of lights. Generator lights on
the forks and a helmet light powered by a battery. Most generator
lights go dark when stopped. Helmet battery light does not go dark
when stopped and can be used to create movement by looking directly at
things or moving your head.

 

[Clive George]

"Sirrus Rider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they
> compare to say Niterider evolution smart lights?

Probably dimmer, but I've been using hub dynamos for about 10 years now and
still think they're the absolute business. If I meet somebody with a HID
lamp, it is impressive, but I actually seem to manage quite well - and I'm
riding on narrow unlit coountry lanes with plenty of opportinity to get it
wrong.

I can't be bothered with batteries - to me, a commuting bike should be
there, ready to go at all times. Batteries add faff.

I've used the B+M lumotec oval lamp, and a very cheap union lamp - both with
3W halogen. Bizarrely the cheap union one is actually rather good.

cheers,
clive

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jan 26, 12:40 am, "Sirrus Rider"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?
>
> John

I'll echo what others are saying - Generator-driven lights are great
for commuting. Not as bright as high-power battery lights, but the
limitless runtime and lack of battery more than make up for it.

I've got a SON on my racing bike, a DH-3N71 on my touring bike and a
DH-3D71 on my mountain bike. My favored lamp is the B+M dLumotec Oval
LED. The LED doesn't dim if you slow down, it strobes. But it doesn't
even do that unless you drop below about 4 mph, so it's only a worry on
VERY steep hills. I've had halogens dim and pulse bright with each
pedal stroke climbing hills at 8mph, so I'm totally sold on LEDs.

Avoid the Shimano lamp at all cost. I got one at Nashbar for $27, and
it wasn't worth half that.

My commute is 35 miles RT on a winding, unlit multi-use path, which is
often foggy (it follows a river), and it's dark in both directions this
time of year. I've never felt like I've not had enough light with my
dynohubs and the dLumotec Oval LED.

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Sirrus Rider wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?

I find my SON/E6 setup perfectly adequate for commuting, even in unlit
lanes. However, a halogen lamp will go out when you stop and this can
be a problem if you have any (assuming you're in the US) dead left turns
across traffic.

I can feel a slight drag from the SON when the light is on, but it's
much better than a bottle dynamo because it doesn't slip or make a loud
noise.

 

[Jay Beattie]

On Jan 26, 7:04 am, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Sirrus Rider" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano
> > Nexus, Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do
> > they compare to say Niterider evolution smart lights?Must be time for another r.b.t religious war.
>
> I use a Schmidt SON on one bike and I have an old Sanyo BB generator on
> another. I greatly prefer generator lights to battery powered lights.
> The convenience is unbeatable- the light is always there and available
> at the flick of a switch. You don't have to plan ahead to have lights.
> Cold weather doesn't reduce your run time. You don't have to
> periodically replace the energy source when it won't hold a charge. You
> don't have to strap a battery pack onto the frame or give up one of your
> water bottle cages.
>
> OTOH if you think you need huge light to accomplish an hour's commute,
> then generator lights aren't for you. Some people fiercely believe that
> 10W is the absolute minimum acceptable. The "more is better" school of
> thought is strong. I find that I see *better* with a 3W light, as the
> bright bounceback from near objects with high-powered lights interferes
> with my night vision. I have sold all my high-powered battery lights
> and have just the two generators and a Cateye 2.4W HL-500 for the other
> bike.
>
> Night vision is something to take into account. Some people adapt to
> dark conditions better than others, and I seem to have good night
> vision. I find my 3W lights perfectly adequate for riding from dusk
> till dawn on unfamiliar roads, and don;t feel like I am outrunning my
> light on fast descents.

I have poor night vision and need lots of light, particulary along my
usual commute which has lots of point-source light pollution from cars,
boats and buildings -- which makes it difficult for my eyes to adjust.
I don't know if I need an atomic fire ball to see, though, and from
what I am hearing lately, modern LEDs can produce a lot of light with a
generator -- the equivalent of 20 watts of halogen, or so I have been
told.

If that is true, then I think the issue is wiring, convenience and
price. I would stick with battery lights because they can be swapped
between bikes and because my night rides are never more than a few
hours. I would still carry a little LED back up though for those nights
I forget to recharge. If I were riding a lot at night or had only one
bike I rode at night, I would probably use a generator. -- Jay Beattie.

 

[landotter]

On Jan 26, 2:40 am, "Sirrus Rider" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?
>
> John

It depends on what your ride is like. Here in the city, a good quality
LED lamp to be seen is all that's needed. The batteries in my front and
rear lights go at least three months on a set.

If you need to see, then generator lamps are IMHO more elegant a
solution than hauling around huge battery packs. If the lights don't
have a built in "stand light" for when you're not moving, you've want
to supplement with LED blinkies.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've got a SON on my racing bike

That was startling to me for a second as most people don't race in the
dark. But then I remembered that *my* SON wheel is currently on my old
race bike. I put it on in the fall when the days got short but it was
still unseasonably warm. Easy riding just about all the way to the end
of the year!

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jan 26, 11:16 am, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I've got a SON on my racing bikeThat was startling to me for a second as most people don't race in the
> dark.

I barely race, period (last year, the road bike leg of a 5-sport relay
and one triathlon), and never in the dark. I called it that to
distinguish it (my '75 Peugeot PX-10 retrofit with '06 Centaur) from my
Surly Long Haul Trucker. I commute on the Peugeot when the weather is
nicer. If it's light out, I'll swap on my other front wheel with a
Veloce hub.

 

[Ted Bennett]

Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:

"Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I've got a SON on my racing bike
>
> That was startling to me for a second as most people don't race in the
> dark.


True enough, but the SON is the hot setup for very long events such as
Paris-Brest-Paris and its qualifying events.

--
Ted Bennett

 

[James Thomson]

<[email protected]> a écrit:

> I have two Schmidt E6 lights mounted right by the front hub on
> Minoura Besso fork mounts. Schmidt E6 lights provide good
> usable light. The secondary does not really add much extra
> light over the primary E6 so it could be ommitted and you really
> would not know the difference. Schmidt lights are $100 each.
> Mounting brackets are $15-25 per light. Shimano hub wheel is
> $200. Schmidt hub wheel is $320. Plus tire and tube and rim
> strip. You are basically looking at $475-600 for a very nice usable
> generator hub light setup with quality lights. The lights are the key.
> Its Pound foolish, Penny wise to pay $200-320 for a generator hub
> wheel and then put a dim worthless $30 B&M Lumotec light onto it.

People will have different definitions of "good usable light". I just set up
a dynamo system on a friend's bike - a 16 euro AXA HR bottle dynamo driving
an 8 euro Lumotec gives a good amount of bright, white light. She's happy on
her daily commute through Paris and the suburbs, and I was sufficiently
impressed that I'm considering a bottle dynamo rather than a Shimano dynohub
for a hack commuter I'm putting together for myself.

> The light is what you use and see with. The light is what you are paying
> for. Put a cheap garbage light on the expensive Schmidt wheel and it
> will produce pathetic unusable light. Put a Schmidt E6 light on a
> cheap junk Union sidewall generator and it will produce great light.
> Both generators produce 6 volts of electricity. Electricity is
> electricity.

My good bike has a Schmidt hub currently driving a single Lumotec Plus. I've
previously used a pair of Lumotecs with the same hub, and with a Shimano
NX30. I've ridden all night with these combinations, and commuted across
cities. It may be that a more expensive lamp would give better illumination,
but I've been so satisfied with my Lumotecs that nothing motivates me to
experiment further.

James Thomson

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 26, 3:40 am, "Sirrus Rider" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?

Others have answered well. But I'll emphasize, it doesn't really have
to be a hub generator. Almost all generators on the market put out
similar electricity, whether hub units, bottle units or bottom bracket
(roller) units. Yes, some are a little stronger or weaker, but in most
cases the differences are fairly small.

Exceptions: Among my generators "in storage" are an old, old Sanyo
bottom bracket model, and a 1950s Sturmey Archer Dynohub. The Sanyo
had fewer magnetic poles, so while it was OK at speed, it was dimmer at
very low speeds. The Sturmey was built to a different, much weaker
standard, putting out only 2 watts (IIRC). But again, those are
exceptions.

The advantages of a good hub generator are usually lack of slippage,
and efficiency - at least, while the lights are on. (Some Shimanos are
draggy with lights off.) OTOH, a separate bottle or roller generator
has zero drag when it's off, not a lot of drag when it's on, and costs
way, way less.

Installation ease is a difference, too, depending who you are. Is it
better or worse to have to build a hub into a wheel, compared to
properly aligning a separate unit and getting the wiring right? Some
people have trouble with the latter.

BTW, an interesting compromise is the Aufa (nee FER) spoke drive
generator. Kind of clunky looking, and a bit noisy, but no slippage,
more efficient than most generators, and much less expensive than a hub
unit. See
http://www.aufa.de/index.php?subsite=products&category=2&filter=&detail=36

Finally: Any worries about visibility when stopped are easy to fix.
Use reflective tape, and add battery powered blinkies.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Clive George]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> The advantages of a good hub generator are usually lack of slippage,
> and efficiency - at least, while the lights are on. (Some Shimanos are
> draggy with lights off.) OTOH, a separate bottle or roller generator
> has zero drag when it's off, not a lot of drag when it's on, and costs
> way, way less.

IME hub dynamos are way more reliable too - eg they aren't sensitive to
being knocked out of alignment, and generally appear to be better sealed.
(Having nice slow running bearings helps here I guess.). No tyre wear to
consider (BTDT), or wear of the roller (done that too...)

cheers,
clive

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > I've got a SON on my racing bike
> >
> > That was startling to me for a second as most people don't race in
> > the dark.
>
>
> True enough, but the SON is the hot setup for very long events such
> as Paris-Brest-Paris and its qualifying events.

Which was why I bought mine in 1999. Hey! A rhyme!

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Its Pound foolish, Penny wise to pay $200-320 for a generator hub
> wheel and then put a dim worthless $30 B&M Lumotec light onto it.
> The light is what you use and see with. The light is what you are
> paying for. Put a cheap garbage light on the expensive Schmidt wheel
> and it will produce pathetic unusable light. Put a Schmidt E6 light
> on a cheap junk Union sidewall generator and it will produce great
> light.

I prefer the Lumotec to the E6 and BiSY lamps. The latter lamps have a
small field of illumination and an abrupt cutoff to the sides. I prefer
the softer margins of the Lumotec beam pattern.

But again, to each their own. You're the one who rides in your road
conditions with your eyes. I see fine with the Lumotec; you may not.

 

[John]

On Jan 26, 3:40 am, "Sirrus Rider" <sirrus-
[email protected]> wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting? How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?
>
> John

As many others have said, dynamo hubs are very nice and convient for
commuting.

Your choice of light is of great importance also. Bicycle Quarterly
recently compared several dynamo-powered lights and has a good
evaluation of each. Also, Peter White has an informative website on
dynamo lights.

For my commute, the E6 wasn't the best option. I commute through
mostly main suburban roads, most of which are dimly lit. I chose the
1W Inoled and it's great for my commute as it provides full power at
very slow speeds, has a stand-light, and provides enough spill to see
enough to the sides as well as being more visable to traffic.

What's your commute like? Distance, urban, streetlit?

That answer will determine which is the best light for you.

John McMurry

 

[[email protected]]

I run two Sturmey Archer AG dynohubs, one on my local three-speed and
the other on my distance bike, the same type bike with a stronger
spokeset. My experience is that the original Sturmey front light is
plenty bright enough to show your presence to motorists. The normal
problem is that it gets pretty hairy when you have to stop at a
junction and there's no light because you're stationary. I fixed this
problem by fitting a �10 Basta Ray standlicht(standlight) which is an
LED based light with integral reflector and a battery cell which gives
you a constant 10 minutes of rear lighting after you stop pedalling.
It's good to have the piece of mind that you are visible to motorists.
It would be useful to find if they make a similar front light. Hope
that helps, cheers, Nick.

On Jan 26, 8:40�am, "Sirrus Rider" <sirrus-
[email protected]> wrote:
> How do generator lights powered by Dynamo hubs like (SONs), Shimano Nexus,
> Sturmy Archer (GH6 or Newer) measure up for commuting?  How do they compare
> to say Niterider evolution smart lights?
>
> John

 

[Andrew Price]

On 26 Jan 2007 17:35:19 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

[---]

>The advantages of a good hub generator are usually lack of slippage,
>and efficiency - at least, while the lights are on. (Some Shimanos are
>draggy with lights off.)

How noticeable is that?

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Andrew Price wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2007 17:35:19 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [---]
>
>> The advantages of a good hub generator are usually lack of slippage,
>> and efficiency - at least, while the lights are on. (Some Shimanos are
>> draggy with lights off.)
>
> How noticeable is that?

About 1W in the latest models. Some of the older ones were less draggy
with the lights on - work that out!

The SON is supposed to absorb about 0.5W when switched off, which isn't
really noticeable. At the speeds I ride, it diverts 6W when the lamp is
on, which is detectable (and measurable in average speed, given I do the
same journey every day), but not tragic. Note that the claimed 65%
efficiency is at a speed lower than most of us will normally ride, and
it is more like 50% efficient when you're keeping up a decent pace.