GENTS v LADIES bikes

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by [email protected], Aug 15, 2004.

  1. is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    the 21st century ?

    would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?

    just what is the point in having separate frames ?
     
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  2. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:14:16 +0100, [email protected]
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    >the 21st century ?
    >
    >would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    No, I've been mistaken for a woman far too many times without actively
    confusing people ;0). Seriously though, I would use one in an emergency
    or when testing the better half's setup but not all the time. It'd be
    like wearing a blouse instead of a shirt. Sure you can do it but you'll
    look funny (and get funny looks).

    >just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    Because even in this exciting, advanced, equality-biased World of the
    Future we live in some women still wear skirts?

    Women also have slightly different (on average) leg/body length ratios
    amongst other things although I'm not sure if most frames take that into
    account.

    Women are (obviously) not built the same as men and wear different
    clothes. While that continues there'll be a market for ladies frames.
    Nothing stopping a woman buying a gents frame if it fits though.

    Frink

    --
    Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
    See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
    Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
    "No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse
     
  3. [email protected]ped


    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?


    Men tend to have different sizes & shapes to women. Bikes have to fit
    like clothes. Men do not always wear the same clothes as women.

    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    My partner rides an open-framed bicycle. He has adopted my
    diamond-framed bikes but the top tubes & stems are a bit short.

    > just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    Open frames can be useful if:

    The cyclist wears a skirt (Yes, sometimes I do this)

    The cyclist does not wish to swing the leg over a child on a child seat
    and cannot step over a top tube.

    The cyclist has restricted hip movements.

    Diamond frames are stronger.

    I've seen quite a few men riding around on 'women's' frames.

    Kids' bikes tend to be 'sexed' far more obviously, with boys' bikes
    having aggressive-sounding names and girls' bikes painted in pink etc...

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
    Edgware.
     
  4. Nick Kew

    Nick Kew Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] writes:
    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?


    If someone still wants it, then let it be so.

    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    I used to in my youth. Well, as a boy (not in the 21st century) I had
    to borrow an available adult bike, and at age 12 or thereabouts my legs
    were far too short to use a mans frame.

    > just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    Live and let live?

    --
    Nick Kew
     
  5. Kevin Stone

    Kevin Stone Guest

    "[email protected]" wrote:

    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?


    Men and woman are different in many ways, it makes no sense to 'politically
    correctly' lump them together and it's good to see that in some aspects of
    life, we are treated differently.

    --
    Kev
     
  6. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?
    >
    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?
    >
    > just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    Women have, on average, proportionately higher hips than men (i.e.
    longer legs and shorter torsos). Consequently the ratio between seat
    tube length and top tube length in womens and mens frames is (slightly)
    different. This is more significant in the smaller sizes.

    So there's sense in having womens specific geometry. The idea that women
    need step through frames, in an era when women mostly wear trousers
    anyway, is less obviously sensible.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    [ This mind intentionally left blank ]
     
  7. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:08:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >
    >So there's sense in having womens specific geometry. The idea that women
    >need step through frames, in an era when women mostly wear trousers
    >anyway, is less obviously sensible.


    But there's still *some* call for it, and if we're to have ladies
    diamond frame and ladies step through frame that's twice the work for
    the manufacturers when they could just do a single step through that all
    women can use (in general, more professional bikes will obviously be for
    people not wearing skirts and stick to diamond).

    Another poster's suggestion about stiff hips and kiddie seats also make
    a case for step throughs (although not necessarily for women only).

    Frink

    --
    Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
    See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
    Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
    "No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse
     
  8. [email protected] (Doctor J. Frink)typed


    > On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:08:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > >So there's sense in having womens specific geometry. The idea that women
    > >need step through frames, in an era when women mostly wear trousers
    > >anyway, is less obviously sensible.


    > But there's still *some* call for it, and if we're to have ladies
    > diamond frame and ladies step through frame that's twice the work for
    > the manufacturers when they could just do a single step through that all
    > women can use (in general, more professional bikes will obviously be for
    > people not wearing skirts and stick to diamond).


    > Another poster's suggestion about stiff hips and kiddie seats also make
    > a case for step throughs (although not necessarily for women only).


    Did I suggest that these were for women only? ;-)

    My partner is a man (shock horror!) and sometimes rides an open frame.
    I am a woman and seldom rode open-framed bikes, even if wearing a skirt
    or dress.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
    Edgware.
     
  9. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:40:54 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah
    Vecht <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >Open frames can be useful if: [snip]


    >The cyclist does not wish to swing the leg over a child on a child seat
    >and cannot step over a top tube.


    "Unisex" bikes are much more useful for people using a bike as
    transport. It is far easier to hop off and on than perform the
    gymnastics necessary to get over a top tube. For those of the male
    persuasion a top tube also causes some danger to delicate items, for
    example when stopping at traffic lights.

    If doing some energetic sporty cycling then having the stiffest bike
    is an advantage, but it is wrong to assume that what is best for
    racing is best for transport.

    Of course if racing cycling really wants to progress it should
    abandon silly rules about the shape of bikes.


    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  10. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?


    Not really, in fact I think more ladies frames should be made available
    for those who like them.

    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    I've borrowed them, without embarrassment :)

    > just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    There's two separate issue here: "Step-though" frames, and "female
    specific" frames that are traditional diamond types with shorter top
    tubes.

    ~PB
     
  11. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:14:16 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

    >just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    I bought my better half a Specialized Rockhopper (Women's) - with it's
    narrower bars, shorter cranks and top tube - and she loves it! Only
    been out a couple of times - and I've taken her on some good
    singletrack routes. After a shaky start (she's been used to a shed of
    a bike - heavy, and big) - she is getting used to the geometry of the
    rockhopper.
    I'm sure she'd have a view on this if I could get her to use usenet!

    Regards, Simon.
     
  12. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?
    >
    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    We owned a double lady tandem when the offspring was small for the school
    run and also for a laff.
    I rode it with offspring (and SWMBO on occasion) on the back and while I'm
    perfectly capable of swinging my leg over the (front) bars the step through
    feature was a boon. Mind you, it sure did flex :)
    It neither detracted from nor enhanced my perception of my masculinity. It
    was just a bike.

    Pete
     
  13. Andy Dingley

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:14:16 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

    >would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    Whenever I'm wearing a frock of course.
     
  14. Steph Peters

    Steph Peters Guest

    Helen Deborah Vecht <[email protected]> of wrote:
    >[email protected] typed
    >> just what is the point in having separate frames ?

    >
    >Open frames can be useful if:
    >
    >The cyclist wears a skirt (Yes, sometimes I do this)
    >
    >The cyclist does not wish to swing the leg over a child on a child seat
    >and cannot step over a top tube.

    Add
    The cyclist's legs are too short to straddle the top tube of any off the peg
    adult bike, but wants the choice of decent quality components far more
    easily found on bikes for adults than bikes intended for children.

    Steph
    Inside leg 25"
    --
    Artificial intelligences make mistakes too, only faster. Larry Wall
    Steph Peters delete invalid from [email protected]lid
    Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>
     
  15. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:39:48 +0100, Steph Peters
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    <[email protected]>:

    >Add
    >The cyclist's legs are too short to straddle the top tube


    Add: the cyclist wants an open frame. Who are we to gainsay them?
    Any chap who has ended up in a goolies / crossbar percussion situation
    could be forgiven for that choice ;-)

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
     
  16. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?


    Last time I looked, despite the 21st Century being here, men and women
    are still different shapes.

    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?


    Note that there's more to a "ladies' frame" than a low crossbar. Things
    like the reach from saddle to bars are typically shorter on a ladies'
    frame (and this difference means that there are ladies' frames with high
    crossbars, in fact), and the bottom bracket my be a little lower as
    women tend to be smaller on average.
    But not everyone is average, so an atypically small man may well be
    better with the closer layout of a ladies' frame.

    Some people, especially older and/or infirm people, may find a high
    crossbar awkward to get over, while a step-through frame is
    comparatively easier. So in that case a step-through makes a lot more
    sense. A bike with a rear child seat is much easier to mount if the
    frame is step-through, though that's more of an argument for separate
    step-through frames better suited to typical male geometry.

    Some women prefer to wear skirts, and this is more common than men
    wearing kilts or sarongs, so it makes more sense for a greater range of
    step-through frames to be available in ladies' sizes.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  17. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Guest

    On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:14:16 +0100, <[email protected]> wrote:

    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?
    >
    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?
    >
    > just what is the point in having separate frames ?
    >


    I nearly bought a moulton recently. It has an open frame, didn't occur to
    me at the time though...
    What a bike!

    Chris

    --
    |C|H|R|I|S|@|T|R|I|N|I|T|Y|W|I|L|L|S|.|C|O|M|
    Remove the bars to contact me
     
  18. davek

    davek Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > Not really, in fact I think more ladies frames should be made available
    > for those who like them.


    Hear hear! Fashion dictates that all bikes at the cheaper end of the
    market must be MTB-style with minumum 21 gears and suspension forks.
    Fashion is full of shit.

    d.
     
  19. [email protected] wrote:

    > is this separation of bike types into gents and ladies not absurd in
    > the 21st century ?
    >
    > would any males here ride a bike with a ladies frame ?
    >
    > just what is the point in having separate frames ?


    What bugs me here is that you seem to assume that "in this day and age",
    women should once again be content to be subsumed to men, with no
    autonomous identity of their own, or just shut up.

    If males want to ride or not on a lady's frame that's their issue and I
    have no comment. I knew at least one such rider who claimed he found a
    woman's frame much easier and more comfortable to ride.

    For my part, I am quite incapable of mounting or riding a man's bike and
    if that were the only thing available on the market, I would never have
    been able to start cycling.

    So what's your problem with women's frames? Is it the existence of women
    that annoys you?

    EFR
    Ile de France
     
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