George says 'ouch'



from CN:

Back in 2005, Boonen powered past George Hincapie and Juan Antonio
Flecha in a virtually identical three-man sprint in the Roubaix
velodrome. But asked to compare his victory of three years ago with
that of today, Boonen rated this latest triumph as more satisfying.
"There were two other riders today and I think these guys are a level
higher than Flecha and Hincapie. We rode with an average of 43.5 km/h,
and I believe this edition was a tougher race than back then."
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> from CN:
>
> Back in 2005, Boonen powered past George Hincapie and Juan Antonio
> Flecha in a virtually identical three-man sprint in the Roubaix
> velodrome. But asked to compare his victory of three years ago with
> that of today, Boonen rated this latest triumph as more satisfying.
> "There were two other riders today and I think these guys are a level
> higher than Flecha and Hincapie. We rode with an average of 43.5 km/h,
> and I believe this edition was a tougher race than back then."


I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cheap shot. Viewed
in 2008 I think it's obvious that Ballan/Cancellara are
at a much higher level than Hincapie/Flecha. Both Ballan
and Cancellara have shown the ability to win on a weekend,
and there's a lot to be said for that.

But 2005 was a peak year for both Hincapie and Flecha.
George won K-B-K earlier in the spring and had the form
to win win stages in the Dauphiné Libéré and the Tour
later in the year. He's had trouble winning anything
outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
a domestic US team. But he wasn't that bad in 2005.

Flecha has taken a similar track. He took Zürich the year
before and had that interesting motor-paced loss to
Mattan in Gent-Wevelgem in the spring of 2005, so he
wasn't chopped liver. He's been shut out since 2005 so
I doubt a guy like Boonen considers him a danger man
these days. But he had to pay attention to him in the
spring of 2005.

So I have to wonder if their diminished status has colored
Boonen's memory of the 2005 race.

Bob Schwartz
 
On Apr 14, 11:36 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cheap shot. Viewed
> in 2008 I think it's obvious that Ballan/Cancellara are
> at a much higher level than Hincapie/Flecha. Both Ballan
> and Cancellara have shown the ability to win on a weekend,
> and there's a lot to be said for that.


even this year ... Flecha looked very strong in the Ronde, and it was
an impressive ride yesterday, chasing over 30 km and finally catching
the front group. Without that ... who knows?


> So I have to wonder if their diminished status has colored
> Boonen's memory of the 2005 race.


http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/06/08

"According to the latest research, remembering is an unstable and
profoundly unreliable process."

very interesting show.
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 14, 11:36 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cheap shot. Viewed
>> in 2008 I think it's obvious that Ballan/Cancellara are
>> at a much higher level than Hincapie/Flecha. Both Ballan
>> and Cancellara have shown the ability to win on a weekend,
>> and there's a lot to be said for that.

>
> even this year ... Flecha looked very strong in the Ronde, and it was
> an impressive ride yesterday, chasing over 30 km and finally catching
> the front group. Without that ... who knows?


Oh wait, I had completely forgotten how Cancellara
had gotten lit up and smoked by Levi in the TT stage
of the Tour of California, and how lame it looked
when he claimed that a top shelf race like the TofC
was somehow not a No. 1 priority.

Boonen is full of ****. He had it lots harder in
2005. Hincapie totally *owns* the big spring races
like the TofC, Boonen is *lucky* that big George was
absent when they got to the velodrome this year.

Bob Schwartz
 
A

Andre

Guest
On Apr 14, 12:40 pm, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 11:36 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
> > wrote:

>
> >> I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cheap shot. Viewed
> >> in 2008 I think it's obvious that Ballan/Cancellara are
> >> at a much higher level than Hincapie/Flecha. Both Ballan
> >> and Cancellara have shown the ability to win on a weekend,
> >> and there's a lot to be said for that.

>
> > even this year ... Flecha looked very strong in the Ronde, and it was
> > an impressive ride yesterday, chasing over 30 km and finally catching
> > the front group.  Without that ... who knows?

>
> Oh wait, I had completely forgotten how Cancellara
> had gotten lit up and smoked by Levi in the TT stage
> of the Tour of California, and how lame it looked
> when he claimed that a top shelf race like the TofC
> was somehow not a No. 1 priority.
>
> Boonen is full of ****. He had it lots harder in
> 2005. Hincapie totally *owns* the big spring races
> like the TofC, Boonen is *lucky* that big George was
> absent when they got to the velodrome this year.
>
> Bob Schwartz


Your latest victory always feels better. I hear a lot of athletes say
the same thing . You get caught in the moment.

Andre
 
B

Bill C

Guest
On Apr 14, 12:40 pm, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> Boonen is full of ****. He had it lots harder in
> 2005. Hincapie totally *owns* the big spring races
> like the TofC, Boonen is *lucky* that big George was
> absent when they got to the velodrome this year.
>
> Bob Schwartz


So how many virtual wins does that give Big Georgie? At least he
didn't end his day upside down in a slime filled ditch again this
year ;-)
Bill C
 
On Apr 14, 12:40 pm, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 11:36 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
> > wrote:

>
> >> I dunno, I think that's a bit of a cheap shot. Viewed
> >> in 2008 I think it's obvious that Ballan/Cancellara are
> >> at a much higher level than Hincapie/Flecha. Both Ballan
> >> and Cancellara have shown the ability to win on a weekend,
> >> and there's a lot to be said for that.

>
> > even this year ... Flecha looked very strong in the Ronde, and it was
> > an impressive ride yesterday, chasing over 30 km and finally catching
> > the front group. Without that ... who knows?

>
> Oh wait, I had completely forgotten how Cancellara
> had gotten lit up and smoked by Levi in the TT stage
> of the Tour of California, and how lame it looked
> when he claimed that a top shelf race like the TofC
> was somehow not a No. 1 priority.
>
> Boonen is full of ****. He had it lots harder in
> 2005. Hincapie totally *owns* the big spring races
> like the TofC, Boonen is *lucky* that big George was
> absent when they got to the velodrome this year.
>
> Bob Schwartz


Top shelf? To the rest of the world, the Tour of California is about
as important as the Tour de Langkowi. Anyone who treats it as more
than a training ride is in denial about how badly reamed they're going
to get in the races people care about. Boonen was probably lucky big
George wasn't with him in the velodrome in 2005 either. Oh, right...
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]m...
>
> Top shelf? To the rest of the world, the Tour of California is about
> as important as the Tour de Langkowi. Anyone who treats it as more
> than a training ride is in denial about how badly reamed they're going
> to get in the races people care about. Boonen was probably lucky big
> George wasn't with him in the velodrome in 2005 either. Oh, right...


Firstly, apparently you don't understand satire. Secondly, it's my guess
that the center of REAL(tm) cycle racing will move into the USA unless ASO
and UCI get together again and pretty rapidly.
 
J

John Forrest Tomlinson

Guest
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:16:08 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>To the rest of the world, the Tour of California is about
>as important as the Tour de Langkowi.


Tour of California has had a higher level field than the Tour of
Langkawi Langkawi.
 
> He's had trouble winning anything
> outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
> after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
> a domestic US team.


He's got at least 3 more PT years before going domestic.

PR
9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
5.12

RVV
5 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
0.21
 
H

Howard Kveck

Guest
In article <[email protected]m>,
[email protected] wrote:

> > He's had trouble winning anything
> > outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
> > after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
> > a domestic US team.

>
> He's got at least 3 more PT years before going domestic.
>
> PR
> 9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> 5.12
>
> RVV
> 5 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> 0.21


There's a lot more luck involved at PR than most (if not all) races, so his ninth
was a credible showing. The fifth at RVV was a better indicator of his abilities, I
think.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>> He's had trouble winning anything
>> outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
>> after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
>> a domestic US team.

>
> He's got at least 3 more PT years before going domestic.
>
> PR
> 9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> 5.12
>
> RVV
> 5 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> 0.21


Since 2005 he's had a lot of trouble closing anything
out except for stuff like the TofC that doesn't count.
If he strikes out this year... well, three years is
a long time for a team leader. Not for a water carrier
though, so you may be right.

Bob Schwartz
 
F

Fred Fredburger

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>> He's had trouble winning anything
>> outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
>> after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
>> a domestic US team.

>
> He's got at least 3 more PT years before going domestic.
>
> PR
> 9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> 5.12
>
> RVV
> 5 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> 0.21


Ninth place? Fifth place? Big deal! Nobody remembers anything but first
place. You either win or you lose, there are no points for "Tried and
did pretty durned good". This is not gym class.
 
On Apr 16, 7:15 pm, Fred Fredburger
<[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >> He's had trouble winning anything
> >> outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
> >> after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
> >> a domestic US team.

>
> > He's got at least 3 more PT years before going domestic.

>
> > PR
> > 9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> > 5.12

>
> > RVV
> > 5 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> > 0.21

>
> Ninth place? Fifth place? Big deal! Nobody remembers anything but first
> place. You either win or you lose, there are no points for "Tried and
> did pretty durned good". This is not gym class.


My point is top 10's in Monuments means he won't be racing
domestically next year after High Load folds.
 
On Apr 16, 11:20 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 16, 7:15 pm, Fred Fredburger
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > >> He's had trouble winning anything
> > >> outside of the US since then and once High Load dissolves
> > >> after this year I think he'll be finishing his career at
> > >> a domestic US team.

>
> > > He's got at least 3 more PT years before going domestic.

>
> > > PR
> > > 9 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> > > 5.12

>
> > > RVV
> > > 5 George Hincapie (USA) Team High Road
> > > 0.21

>
> > Ninth place? Fifth place? Big deal! Nobody remembers anything but first
> > place. You either win or you lose, there are no points for "Tried and
> > did pretty durned good". This is not gym class.

>
> My point is top 10's in Monuments means he won't be racing
> domestically next year after High Load folds.


I agree. It depends on what George wants to do, and
how much he costs. Even if he is not the team leader,
a guy who can get top 10 in major classics is someone
you want in the finale along with your team leader,
for the tactical benefits. Like having a Klier, Knaven,
Nuyens (before he moved to being a leader) along with
your big gun.

Ben
 
F

Fabrizio Mazzoleni

Guest
"Fred Fredburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> Ninth place? Fifth place? Big deal! Nobody remembers anything but first place. You
> either win or you lose, there are no points for "Tried and did pretty durned good". This
> is not gym class.


Really?

Why then do I remember Filippo Meloni taking ninth place
in the 1998 Gran Premio Costa Etrusca?

Seems just like it happened yesterday.
 
A

Andre

Guest
On Apr 17, 12:27 pm, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Fred Fredburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> > Ninth place? Fifth place? Big deal! Nobody remembers anything but first place. You
> > either win or you lose, there are no points for "Tried and did pretty durned good". This
> > is not gym class.

>
> Really?
>
> Why then do I remember Filippo Meloni taking ninth place
> in the 1998 Gran Premio Costa Etrusca?
>
> Seems just like it happened yesterday.


Who was eight?
 
F

Fabrizio Mazzoleni

Guest
"Andre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]m...
On Apr 17, 12:27 pm, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Fred Fredburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> > Ninth place? Fifth place? Big deal! Nobody remembers anything but first place. You
> > either win or you lose, there are no points for "Tried and did pretty durned good".
> > This
> > is not gym class.

>
> Really?
>
> Why then do I remember Filippo Meloni taking ninth place
> in the 1998 Gran Premio Costa Etrusca?
>
> Seems just like it happened yesterday.


Who was eight?

Probably some Spaniard, you're allowed to forget them.