George W. Bush

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc' started by Mike Vandeman, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. November 4, 2004

    Jason wrote:

    >>That's right folks, use your freedom of speech to protest against the freedom of
    >>speech.
    >>
    >>It's the American way!
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Its called spamming Thomas not freedom of speech. And yes there is a
    >very large diffenence.
    >


    In a public forum? No, it's not. He wasn't advertising anything, he
    wasn't telemarketing on your personal phone number, and mountain biking
    occurs on the surface of the Earth, he has a perfect right to express
    any opinion he wants on any forum he wants. You have a filter file,
    perhaps you are just too dumb to figure out how to use it? Does he
    constantly change his email address, does he post anonymously? Since you
    are apparently opposed to freedom of speech, by all means, I encourage
    you to exercise your freedom of speech, by protesting against your right
    to exercise your right to freedom of speech, it only makes you look more
    like the idiot you are. You are an a American, no?

    I think he's a hero.

    Thomas Lee Elifritz
    http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net
     


  2. Jason

    Jason Guest

    * Thomas Lee Elifritz <[email protected]>:
    > In a public forum? No, it's not. He wasn't advertising anything, he
    > wasn't telemarketing on your personal phone number, and mountain biking
    > occurs on the surface of the Earth, he has a perfect right to express
    > any opinion he wants on any forum he wants. You have a filter file,
    > perhaps you are just too dumb to figure out how to use it? Does he
    > constantly change his email address, does he post anonymously? Since you
    > are apparently opposed to freedom of speech, by all means, I encourage
    > you to exercise your freedom of speech, by protesting against your right
    > to exercise your right to freedom of speech, it only makes you look more
    > like the idiot you are. You are an a American, no?
    >
    > I think he's a hero.
    >
    > Thomas Lee Elifritz
    > http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net



    Actually no he doesnt have the right to post whatever he wants where
    ever he want Thomas and neither does anyone else just read your ISP TOS.

    And no thank god I'm not an american.

    Jason
     
  3. November 4, 2004

    [ca.environment removed]

    See how easy that is?

    Jason wrote:

    >Actually no he doesnt have the right to post whatever he wants where
    >ever he want Thomas and neither does anyone else just read your ISP TOS.
    >
    >


    And you have every right to broadcast your stupidity to the world by
    proclaiming your inability to use a filter file. Use Firefox, it's got a
    vastly improved filter manager.

    >And no thank god I'm not an american.
    >
    >


    Then why are you complaining to a US ISP rather than simply filtering a
    poster who never changes his handle and never posts anonymously? I know,
    you're a moronic driveling idiot, your ignorance is incurable, you have
    an IQ of 50 and you live in Canada, a nation of climate change denyers
    and scientific illiterates. It must be a North American problem, not
    just a US problems. Hell, it looks like a global problem, but I admit,
    bicycles are part of the solution..

    Thus, you have every right to use your freedom of speech to protest
    against the freedom of speech. ISPs are a dime a dozen, I'm sure there
    will be many to replace the one he loses, and you apparently have
    nothing better to do than spam ISPs with emails proclaiming your
    dissasatifaction with your fundamental right to freedom of speech, since
    you seem incapable of editing headers as well as managing a filter file.

    Your usenet posting history isn't pristine either, shall we spam your
    ISP too?

    http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=author:Jason+author:<[email protected]>&btnG=Search

    X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
    X-DMCA-Complaints-To: [email protected]

    Go ahead everybody, spam this address with abuse complaints, it's your fundamental ... ability.

    Thomas Lee Elifritz
    http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net
     
  4. goodoz

    goodoz Guest

    Hey Chris -- I have an amazing idea! I just noticed that your website --
    http://www.ramsays-online.com -- accepts orders from us blood mongers down
    here in the USA. Why don't you show us all what a Big Man of Conviction you
    are and stop selling products to Americans? That way, you won't have to get
    blood on your hands by doing business bad people. Hey, that's what you said
    about Bush below!! Amazing!!

    Bet you don't do it! Have a great evening, Hypocrite!!

    Goodoz
    (Patriot, Consumer of Bloodless Products and Liberator of overgrown forest
    that is crying to become a bike
    trail)



    "Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] says...
    > > (3) Afghanistan and Iraq were/are overpopulated with dangerous ASSHOLES

    that
    > > will give their own life to kill innocent civilians. These ASSHOLES

    have
    > > demonstrated that they will hijack aircraft from within our borders and

    kill
    > > thousands in one sweep if we don't kill them first. September 11 was
    > > neither healthy for people, or the environment. One must consider
    > > priorities....er eh, nevermind...you obviously don't get it.
    > >

    >
    > The ASSHOLES were mostly Saudi nationals, you know, the people that
    > funded Bushs campaign and does their best to keep oil prices for the US
    > at affordable levels? Or maybe you don't know. I suspect 51% of the
    > the USA doesn't know.
    > --
    > _________________________
    > Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
    > http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  5. "Shawn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Jeff Strickland wrote:
    > > "Shawn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >>Jeff Strickland wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>(2) violates binding treaties,
    > >>>
    > >>>Big deal, other countries that pollute even more are not even covered.

    > >
    > > And
    > >
    > >>>the treaties drive jobs away.
    > >>
    > >>What does pollution have to do with the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty?
    > >>Jobs and ABM?
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > Coming live and direct from ca.environment, and looking at the other
    > > newsgroups targetted by Vandeman, makes it clear to me that he is

    talking
    > > about the Koyoto Treaty, nothing else.
    > >
    > > You might think he is making reference to a different treaty, but you

    don't
    > > know Mike very well if you think he cares about anything other than his
    > > whacked out view of the environment. I do not suggest that taking a

    position
    > > on the environment is whacked out, I only suggest that the view that

    Mike
    > > has is whacked out.

    >
    > Kyoto wasn't ratified by the Senate. ABM was, and yes Vandamage is a
    > wack job.
    >
    > Shawn


    Despite that fact, Mike is talking about the Kyoto (did I spell it wrong
    earier?) treaty.
     
  6. "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > >>
    > >>Kyoto wasn't ratified by the Senate. ABM was, and yes Vandamage is a
    > >>wack job.

    > >
    > > In fact, in an almost unheard of moment of unity, the senate voted 100
    > > to ZERO to NOT ratify the Kyoto treaty because of the obvious
    > > problems. It was NOT a good idea, IOW.

    >
    > Actually, it was 95-0, 5 non voting.
    > Even Kerry thought it was a bad idea...:)
    >


    Kerry thought lots of things were a bad idea, before he thought they were
    good ideas.



    > Pete
    >
    >
     
  7. Gary S.

    Gary S. Guest

    On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:21:00 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Despite that fact, Mike is talking about the Kyoto (did I spell it wrong
    >earier?) treaty.
    >

    Kyoto is the correct spelling, after the city in Japan where they met
    to write it.

    Much easier to look things up with the correct spelling.

    Complex issue, and approving it vs not approving it has more
    ramifications than how much poluution there will be.

    There is inconsistent treatment of different countries in there, based
    more on politics than technology.

    Happy trails,
    Gary (net.yogi.bear)
    ------------------------------------------------
    at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

    Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
    Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
     
  8. Hans Moleman

    Hans Moleman Guest

    Goodoz wrote:

    > (3) Afghanistan and Iraq were/are overpopulated with dangerous ASSHOLES that
    > will give their own life to kill innocent civilians. These ASSHOLES have
    > demonstrated that they will hijack aircraft from within our borders and kill
    > thousands in one sweep if we don't kill them first. September 11 was
    > neither healthy for people, or the environment. One must consider
    > priorities....er eh, nevermind...you obviously don't get it.


    So lets have a look at the score card for Iraq.

    Coalition Military Deaths 1269
    'Western' Civilian Deaths 100
    Iraqi Military Deaths(1) 10,000
    Iraqi Civlian Deaths(2) 100,000

    People Responsable for 9/11 killed/captured 0

    Mate, you've invaded the wrong bloody country.


    (1) The US has not released bodycount information. The figure of
    10,000 is based on Iraqi Ministry of Heath figures.
    (2) The exact number of Iraqi civilian deaths is unknown. Only around
    15,000 have been confirmed, but many expert reports estimate the figure
    at 100,000

    http://icasualties.org/oif/
    http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040908/D84V554G0.html
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1230305.htm
     
  9. Goodoz

    Goodoz Guest

    With all due respect to your opinion, statistics can be manipulated to
    represent any facts from any angle.

    Is it not true that an individual, who wears no identifiable uniform, who
    represents no official flag, who kills without state sponsorship (that's
    murder) can be considered a Terrorist and ALSO considered to be a civilian?
    Many of these "civilians" are running around with TNT and machine guns. I
    hope the coalition continues to relieve them of their mysery.

    As for invading the wrong country -- America's Liberation of Iraq has
    brought to most of that nation, rebuilt infrastructure, schools for
    children, food, more fair treatment for women, Law (in most cases), a vote
    that is representative of the masses and many other good things. However, a
    noteworthy side benefit for the US is that the enemy is now coming to engage
    us.

    I do understand a little of the animosity though...when you live in a
    country that feeds, funds, defends, develops, employs and does so many other
    good things for so many places in the world, It's easy to see why so many
    people hate us.

    We're too nice!! (unless you're an asshole terrorist)


    "Hans Moleman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Goodoz wrote:
    >
    > > (3) Afghanistan and Iraq were/are overpopulated with dangerous ASSHOLES

    that
    > > will give their own life to kill innocent civilians. These ASSHOLES

    have
    > > demonstrated that they will hijack aircraft from within our borders and

    kill
    > > thousands in one sweep if we don't kill them first. September 11 was
    > > neither healthy for people, or the environment. One must consider
    > > priorities....er eh, nevermind...you obviously don't get it.

    >
    > So lets have a look at the score card for Iraq.
    >
    > Coalition Military Deaths 1269
    > 'Western' Civilian Deaths 100
    > Iraqi Military Deaths(1) 10,000
    > Iraqi Civlian Deaths(2) 100,000
    >
    > People Responsable for 9/11 killed/captured 0
    >
    > Mate, you've invaded the wrong bloody country.
    >
    >
    > (1) The US has not released bodycount information. The figure of
    > 10,000 is based on Iraqi Ministry of Heath figures.
    > (2) The exact number of Iraqi civilian deaths is unknown. Only around
    > 15,000 have been confirmed, but many expert reports estimate the figure
    > at 100,000
    >
    > http://icasualties.org/oif/
    > http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
    > http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040908/D84V554G0.html
    > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1230305.htm
     
  10. Hans Moleman

    Hans Moleman Guest

    Goodoz wrote:
    > With all due respect to your opinion, statistics can be manipulated to
    > represent any facts from any angle.


    I think the stats I gave are well sourced. I haven't tried to put any
    'spin' on them.

    > Many of these "civilians" are running around with TNT and machine guns. I
    > hope the coalition continues to relieve them of their mysery.


    I've made an effort to seperate Iraqi Military deaths from Iraqi
    Civilain deaths, but that's not really my point.

    My point is, in your war against the terrorists responsable for 9/11 all
    invading Iraq has done has resulted in is the deaths of over 100,000
    people, created a recruiting ground for Islamic fundimentalists and
    somehow succeded in unifying Shi'ite and Sunite extremests against you.

    Despite spending $143,633,000,000 on the war in Iraq, despite having
    lost 1269 soldiers, despite having the full military support of major
    world powers you have not caught a single terrorist responsable for 9/11.

    And while you continue to pour more funds and more lives into the
    occupation of Iraq, the heat is off Osama. He's sitting in a cave
    somewhere planning his next attack on US soil.

    It's my belief your commander in chief has made a bad decision. I'm not
    surprised Powell has left.
     
  11. "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > .Coming live and direct from ca.environment, and looking at the other
    > .newsgroups targetted by Vandeman, makes it clear to me that he is talking
    > .about the Koyoto Treaty, nothing else.
    >
    > No, the ABM.
    >


    Come on, V! You don't really expect us to believe you have even a shred of a
    clue about the ABM. I suspect you are weak on Kyoto, and the ABM is way over
    your head.

    Of course, you are going to say that I am the clueless one because of the
    typo, Koyoto.
     
  12. Rick

    Rick Guest

    Goodoz wrote:
    > With all due respect to your opinion, statistics can be manipulated to
    > represent any facts from any angle.
    >
    > Is it not true that an individual, who wears no identifiable uniform, who
    > represents no official flag, who kills without state sponsorship (that's
    > murder) can be considered a Terrorist and ALSO considered to be a civilian?
    > Many of these "civilians" are running around with TNT and machine guns. I
    > hope the coalition continues to relieve them of their mysery.
    >


    To the tune of 100,000? I don't think so. IF, and that is a very large
    if, we had targeted only those who were retaliating to a perceived US
    invasion (which one can certainly make a case that they are/were), the
    numbers would be closer to the toal of military deaths. Some statistical
    data manipulation is certainly done in these statistics, but the numbers
    of collateral dead is extremely high (one can also make a case that
    those civilians accidentally killed by Iraqui terrorists/fredom
    fighters, or whatever, would have not been killed if the US forces were
    not there).

    > As for invading the wrong country -- America's Liberation of Iraq has
    > brought to most of that nation, rebuilt infrastructure, schools for
    > children, food, more fair treatment for women, Law (in most cases), a vote
    > that is representative of the masses and many other good things. However, a
    > noteworthy side benefit for the US is that the enemy is now coming to engage
    > us.
    >


    Wrongo. The infrastructure moneys were redirected to repair the oil
    production capabilities and train an Iraqui police corps. The end result
    is that the country, did not receive the infrastructure improvements
    that were promised. Some of this was their own fault (they actually
    destroyed many of the systems under construction), but not all of it.
    From what I've read, these people have a right to be angry, though to a
    degree, some of the blame for these failings fall on them as well.

    > I do understand a little of the animosity though...when you live in a
    > country that feeds, funds, defends, develops, employs and does so many other
    > good things for so many places in the world, It's easy to see why so many
    > people hate us.
    >
    > We're too nice!! (unless you're an asshole terrorist)
    >


    Tell that to the civilians who were held, brutally, and illegally (in
    violation of our constitution) in Cuba or in prisons in Iraq. Frankly,
    we are looking a whole lot like the folks we tend to condemn. I am
    embarrassed to be associated with those who believe this war has
    improved Iraq. There was a book written about the Reagan years titled,
    "Sleepwalking Through History," (decent book, actually). The title of a
    book on a similar topic now would be more like, "Seeing the World
    Through Rose Colored Glasses."

    ....stuff deleted from previous post

    Rick
     
  13. On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:54:49 GMT, Scott Burley <[email protected]> wrote:

    ..On 03 Nov 2004, the cheeks of Mike Vandeman parted, and a trumpetous
    ..noise emerged:
    ..
    ..> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:14:01 -0600, "the Moderator"
    ..> <[email protected]_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
    ..>
    ..> .
    ..> ."Andy Chequer" <[email protected](youdon'twantthisbitinit)thisisasparagus.com>
    ..> wrote in .message news:[email protected]
    ..> .> >(7) is almost universally hated around the world.
    ..> .>
    ..> .> We don't like the monkey man over here. Particularly vexing is his
    ..> .> abreviation of "terrorism" to "turr".
    ..> .>
    ..> .> Andy Chequer
    ..> .>
    ..> .
    ..> .The President may mispronounce a word, but he does not mispronounce
    ..> his .intent.
    ..>
    ..> Yes, he does. His intent was and is to get his hands on Iraqi oil.
    ..
    ..If we're getting all this oil from Iraq, why is oil so damned expensive?

    'cause Bush can't seem to get it.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  14. On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:14:10 -0500, "RoadWarrior400"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    ..
    .."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    ..news:if3jo09l8h01e32[email protected]
    ..>
    ..> BS. I am sure that the election was rigged by Republican secretaries of
    ..state
    ..
    ..There was always the thought in the back of my mind, that you believed the
    ..unsupportable garbage you spew on Usenet. Now I'm sure you're just another
    ..troll who has alot of spare time to perfect your craft.
    ..
    ..RW

    From: "t r u t h o u t" <[email protected]>
    Subject: FOCUS: Greg Palast | Kerry Won
    Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:15:03 -0800

    FOCUS: Greg Palast | Kerry Won
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110504V.shtml

    Click to SUBSCRIBE -> mailto:[email protected]
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  15. "Hans Moleman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Goodoz wrote:
    >
    > > (3) Afghanistan and Iraq were/are overpopulated with dangerous ASSHOLES

    that
    > > will give their own life to kill innocent civilians. These ASSHOLES

    have
    > > demonstrated that they will hijack aircraft from within our borders and

    kill
    > > thousands in one sweep if we don't kill them first. September 11 was
    > > neither healthy for people, or the environment. One must consider
    > > priorities....er eh, nevermind...you obviously don't get it.

    >
    > So lets have a look at the score card for Iraq.
    >
    > Coalition Military Deaths 1269
    > 'Western' Civilian Deaths 100
    > Iraqi Military Deaths(1) 10,000
    > Iraqi Civlian Deaths(2) 100,000
    >
    > People Responsable for 9/11 killed/captured 0
    >
    > Mate, you've invaded the wrong bloody country.
    >
    >
    > (1) The US has not released bodycount information. The figure of
    > 10,000 is based on Iraqi Ministry of Heath figures.
    > (2) The exact number of Iraqi civilian deaths is unknown. Only around
    > 15,000 have been confirmed, but many expert reports estimate the figure
    > at 100,000
    >
    > http://icasualties.org/oif/
    > http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
    > http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040908/D84V554G0.html
    > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1230305.htm


    So the numbers jump from 16,000 to 100,000 and no one bats an eye? I would
    say the survey is flawed.
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>,
    Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] says...
    > > As for invading the wrong country -- America's Liberation of Iraq has
    > > brought to most of that nation, rebuilt infrastructure, schools for
    > > children, food, more fair treatment for women, Law (in most cases), a vote
    > > that is representative of the masses and many other good things. However, a
    > > noteworthy side benefit for the US is that the enemy is now coming to engage
    > > us.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > The infrastructure still has to be rebuilt and only because the US
    > destroyed it. ...


    I have had the privilege to spend several dozen hours interviewing, for
    a book project, my neighbor and friend who headed up the engineering
    teams assessing reconstruction projects in South Central Iraq for
    Coalition Provisional Authority. Contrary to your claim here, the vast
    bulk of reconstruction needs are associated with decades of neglect by
    Saddam. Saddam spent heavily on militarily significant projects, and
    they provide stark contrast with the apparent neglect of the ordinary
    folks. Superhighways with no local access. Crumbling schools and clinics
    in the cities and villages, contrasted with gargantuan modern military
    hospital. Irrigation pump systems working at a fraction of needed
    capacity, and that because of the skill and dedication of the local folk.

    > ... Children were starving only because of the corrupt oil
    > for food program, the masses of Iraq are Shite Muslims, they are not
    > friendly to the US so there will NEVER be a vote that is representative
    > of the masses unless Bush's secret plan was to replace the Baath regime
    > with a Shite regime and make Iraq a province of Iran. If 1200 of your
    > bravest being killed in sneak attacks is a side benefit then I begin to
    > understand the policy shaping that going on.
    >
    > This will follow the same formula as other countries that were brought
    > the gift of democracy. The US appointed leader will be allowed to run
    > for office, he will be the only face and name the people will see for
    > over a year and campaigning will last about a month for all other
    > contenders, and they will have to do it without US money.
     
  17. On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:53:08 -0500, Steve Schulin <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    ..In article <[email protected]>,
    .. Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
    ..
    ..> In article <[email protected]>,
    ..> [email protected] says...
    ..> > As for invading the wrong country -- America's Liberation of Iraq has
    ..> > brought to most of that nation, rebuilt infrastructure, schools for
    ..> > children, food, more fair treatment for women, Law (in most cases), a vote
    ..> > that is representative of the masses and many other good things. However, a
    ..> > noteworthy side benefit for the US is that the enemy is now coming to engage
    ..> > us.
    ..> >
    ..> >
    ..>
    ..> The infrastructure still has to be rebuilt and only because the US
    ..> destroyed it. ...
    ..
    ..I have had the privilege to spend several dozen hours interviewing, for
    ..a book project, my neighbor and friend who headed up the engineering
    ..teams assessing reconstruction projects in South Central Iraq for
    ..Coalition Provisional Authority. Contrary to your claim here, the vast
    ..bulk of reconstruction needs are associated with decades of neglect by
    ..Saddam. Saddam spent heavily on militarily significant projects, and
    ..they provide stark contrast with the apparent neglect of the ordinary
    ..folks. Superhighways with no local access. Crumbling schools and clinics
    ..in the cities and villages, contrasted with gargantuan modern military
    ..hospital. Irrigation pump systems working at a fraction of needed
    ..capacity, and that because of the skill and dedication of the local folk.

    So bombs don't do any harm? BS.

    ..> ... Children were starving only because of the corrupt oil
    ..> for food program, the masses of Iraq are Shite Muslims, they are not
    ..> friendly to the US so there will NEVER be a vote that is representative
    ..> of the masses unless Bush's secret plan was to replace the Baath regime
    ..> with a Shite regime and make Iraq a province of Iran. If 1200 of your
    ..> bravest being killed in sneak attacks is a side benefit then I begin to
    ..> understand the policy shaping that going on.
    ..>
    ..> This will follow the same formula as other countries that were brought
    ..> the gift of democracy. The US appointed leader will be allowed to run
    ..> for office, he will be the only face and name the people will see for
    ..> over a year and campaigning will last about a month for all other
    ..> contenders, and they will have to do it without US money.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  18. Lou W

    Lou W Guest

    "Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >> >
    >> > The infrastructure still has to be rebuilt and only because the US
    >> > destroyed it. ...

    >>
    >> I have had the privilege to spend several dozen hours interviewing, for
    >> a book project, my neighbor and friend who headed up the engineering
    >> teams assessing reconstruction projects in South Central Iraq for
    >> Coalition Provisional Authority. Contrary to your claim here, the vast
    >> bulk of reconstruction needs are associated with decades of neglect by
    >> Saddam. Saddam spent heavily on militarily significant projects, and
    >> they provide stark contrast with the apparent neglect of the ordinary
    >> folks. Superhighways with no local access. Crumbling schools and clinics
    >> in the cities and villages, contrasted with gargantuan modern military
    >> hospital. Irrigation pump systems working at a fraction of needed
    >> capacity, and that because of the skill and dedication of the local folk.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Which brings me to another point, countries crippled by sanctions are
    > then held up as examples of what a tragedy the dictatorship has brought.
    > In this case it was not US sanctions at least. It is the case in Cuba,
    > however.


    It is a pretty broad brush you paint with Chris. We have a planet full
    of
    independent thinking nations that do not toe the line with the USA that can
    ,if they so choose, help other countries out with any aid they so choose.
    Why does'nt Russia continue to prop up such a small island nation such as
    Cuba
    as they did in the late 50's up untill the 80's. Why is Cuba our fault? If
    "the revolution" is such a noble concept why are N Korea or China not
    pumping
    massive amounts of aid to Castro/Cuba?

    respectfully
    Lou W


    > --
    > _________________________
    > Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
    > http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  19. rick etter

    rick etter Guest

    "Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    > says...
    >> > Which brings me to another point, countries crippled by sanctions are
    >> > then held up as examples of what a tragedy the dictatorship has
    >> > brought.
    >> > In this case it was not US sanctions at least. It is the case in
    >> > Cuba,
    >> > however.

    >>
    >> It is a pretty broad brush you paint with Chris. We have a planet
    >> full
    >> of
    >> independent thinking nations that do not toe the line with the USA that
    >> can
    >> ,if they so choose, help other countries out with any aid they so choose.
    >> Why does'nt Russia continue to prop up such a small island nation such as
    >> Cuba
    >> as they did in the late 50's up untill the 80's. Why is Cuba our fault?
    >> If
    >> "the revolution" is such a noble concept why are N Korea or China not
    >> pumping
    >> massive amounts of aid to Castro/Cuba?
    >>
    >> respectfully
    >> Lou W
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I know that the US has deemed the UN irrelevant, but it is still made up
    > of independent nations that do provide aid to counties in need,
    > including those the US has put sanctions on. If all commuinism is a
    > cancer that metastasises across the world and all communist regimes are
    > somehow intertwined, explain to me why the Bush government is shoveling
    > money China's way while trying to stop every dollar headed to Cuba.
    > Other than satisfying an old vendetta that is.


    Can't answer the question, I see.... No surprise there, eh?


    > --
    > _________________________
    > Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
    > http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  20. rwwff

    rwwff Guest

    Shawn <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Jeff Strickland wrote:
    >
    > > (2) violates binding treaties,
    > >
    > > Big deal, other countries that pollute even more are not even covered. And
    > > the treaties drive jobs away.

    >
    > What does pollution have to do with the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty?
    > Jobs and ABM?


    The ABM treaty specifically included language about how to withdraw
    from it. Bush followed that treaties requirements to the letter.

    And just barely soon enough, if we are lucky we'll have some semblance
    of a defense by the time North Korea can field and test a missle
    capable of reaching our shores. Everyone puts up the straw dog of
    saying its no use against China or Russia, (or France? :->), but those
    are sane countries that understand mutual deterance, and have no wish
    to enter a suicide pact. NK on the other hand, it is entirely
    conceivable that The Glorious Leader might order a launch just to hurt
    America, even if it means the utter anihilation of his country.
     
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