Get Dehydrated! Not a big deal after all ;-)

[SolarEnergy]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21454440

Has this been discussed here already?

Author of this article lives in a driving range from where I live. I did exchange a few emails with the author about his work.

Make no mistake. The author is categoric, far more during these informal email exchanges than in the article.

Dehydration up to 4% loss is no problem. During the Ironman Leg of a triathlon (180TT), no need for a drinking protocol. Follow your thirst. That's enough and that's all ;-)

 

[An old Guy]

I find that dehydration is not as big a deal as overheating.

I forgot my water bottles today. I still put in my 50 miles - fastest time since my 3 week vacation break. I keep my body temp down with water. That made the ride enjoyable. I drank (from water fountains) much less than I usually drink from water bottles.

 

[tonyzackery]

Broad brush statements should be taken with a grain of salt, as should personal anecdotes.
Every person is different - duh.
When I get dehydrated (have no idea of the percentage), the cramps will definitely set in causing a cessation of that ride. Ergo, no fastest time for that distance...
Staying relatively hydrated is easy and becoming dehydrated is simply not worth the risk, IMO...by the time you get thirsty (IME) it's too late. Furthermore, staying on top of your electrolytes requires staying on top of your hydration - mess around with your electrolyte levels at your (performance) peril...

 

[davereo]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .

I find that dehydration is not as big a deal as overheating.

I forgot my water bottles today. I still put in my 50 miles - fastest time since my 3 week vacation break. I keep my body temp down with water. That made the ride enjoyable. I drank (from water fountains) much less than I usually drink from water bottles.

If your going for a fifty mile ride you should be able to turn back and get your water bottles. Why take dangerous chances when you know better than that.

 

[danfoz]

On hard workout evenings, if I don't start drinking good amounts of fluid in the early afternoon to prep, cramping is almost garanteed. But maybe that 's cause I'm a delicate flower and not a prickly cactus. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

 

[SolarEnergy]

Does any of you sometimes commit to relatively long duration races?

Do you follow a drinking protocol, e.g drink a sip every 15min in order to prevent dehydration?


Quote:
Originally Posted by An old Guy .
I find that dehydration is not as big a deal as overheating.




Strangely, I tend to agree at least to a certain extent. I've tested it myself over several years, training without drinking much in a sorts of conditions. But I find there could be a danger in suggesting that dehydration ain't a big deal and that one can trust his feeling of thirst in an event that lasts more than 5hr under the sun

 

[danfoz]

Charlie Chan say tonque hang man quicker than rope...

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by SolarEnergy .

Does any of you sometimes commit to relatively long duration races?

Do you follow a drinking protocol, e.g drink a sip every 15min in order to prevent dehydration?

I do a couple of fairly long rides a year. This past weekend was 200 miles and 21,000ft of climbing in the lofty heights of the Sierra Nevada, with just over half that that climbing total coming in the last 75 miles. In coolish weather I generally keep to a schedule of one 24oz bottle per 70 to 90 minutes as my drink is not just my primary source of fluid for the ride but the primary source of carbohydrates (a big fan of Hammer Perpetuem). That's combined with Hammer's Endurolyte, electrolyte replacement capsules. As the weather warms up, the time per bottle goes down, as does the amount of carbs per bottle too.

During last years ride in the same event I had a mild stomach upset, probably related to my family and even co-workers having a stomach bug, that caused me to barf twice. That wasn't the big thing though. I couldn't really drink a whole bunch as drinking made me feel sick - this was the big deal. Eating solid foods was OK. The last two mountain passes were fecking horrible, despite being able to take in ~300kcals an hour. Upon getting home I'd lost just over 10lbs in weight - nearly all due to fluid loss. Factor in that I'd been sipping on drinks throughout the entire 3 hour drive home. I learned first hand how bad dehydration can effect performance - and that last 75 miles was about the worst place for me to find out. It might have been freezing cold for most of the event but you still sweat on the climbs and fluid loss through breath is fairly significant at altitude. 6 of the 8 passes were over 8,000ft and the other 2 were over 7,500.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by SolarEnergy .

Strangely, I tend to agree at least to a certain extent. I've tested it myself over several years, training without drinking much in a sorts of conditions. But I find there could be a danger in suggesting that dehydration ain't a big deal and that one can trust his feeling of thirst in an event that lasts more than 5hr under the sun

I was not suggesting that dehydration was not a big deal, only that the reason for dehydration - cooling the body was the more immediate issue.

Drinking water from a fountain or a hose is not particularly efficient. But putting water from a fountain or hose over the neck is very efficient in lowering the body temperature leading to less need for ingestion of water.

---

When I forgot my water bottles I did the math. I have access to a fountain every 6 miles or so. even at 100 degrees I can get enough water on my head to keep my body temperature under control for 6 miles. As long as I make reasonable decisions as to stop or not I am ok.

 

[jsirabella]

This is an interesting issue which just does not seem to really get answered with a fairly simple rule of thumb like drink every 15 minutes water and eat every so many calories so often. I know for outdoor rides I really do not feel as thirsty as I do indoors. Indoors buckets of sweat seem to be coming off while I do not get that same issue outdoors. Outdoors I often forget to drink at all especially when you are trying to keep up with a pack of riders. Hard to keep drinking while the pack is moving so fast.

Today I had to ride indoors as my wife had me going to a play and no amount of water could make a difference. The office was too hot and I died before I could finish my ride. The other thing on indoor rides and long rides outdoor there are times where no matter how much I drink I still feel thirsty.

I know there is just a bunch of personal observations above but would like to come up with a general idea that I could modify based upon my own experience riding.

-js

 

[swampy1970]

 

I was not suggesting that dehydration was not a big deal, only that the reason for dehydration - cooling the body was the more immediate issue.
 
Drinking water from a fountain or a hose is not particularly efficient. But putting water from a fountain or hose over the neck is very efficient in lowering the body temperature leading to less need for ingestion of water.
 
---
 
When I forgot my water bottles I did the math. I have access to a fountain every 6 miles or so. even at 100 degrees I can get enough water on my head to keep my body temperature under control for 6 miles. As long as I make reasonable decisions as to stop or not I am ok.

So what happens when the ability to make 'reasonable decisions' heads south as the temperatures head north? Is your smart phone pre programmed to dial 1-800-passedoutinaditch or 1-877-heatstoke4u?

 

[SolarEnergy]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .





I do a couple of fairly long rides a year. This past weekend was 200 miles and 21,000ft of climbing in the lofty heights of the Sierra Nevada, with just over half that that climbing total coming in the last 75 miles. In coolish weather I generally keep to a schedule of one 24oz bottle per 70 to 90 minutes as my drink is not just my primary source of fluid for the ride but the primary source of carbohydrates (a big fan of Hammer Perpetuem). That's combined with Hammer's Endurolyte, electrolyte replacement capsules. As the weather warms up, the time per bottle goes down, as does the amount of carbs per bottle too.



During last years ride in the same event I had a mild stomach upset, probably related to my family and even co-workers having a stomach bug, that caused me to barf twice. That wasn't the big thing though. I couldn't really drink a whole bunch as drinking made me feel sick - this was the big deal. Eating solid foods was OK. The last two mountain passes were fecking horrible, despite being able to take in ~300kcals an hour. Upon getting home I'd lost just over 10lbs in weight - nearly all due to fluid loss. Factor in that I'd been sipping on drinks throughout the entire 3 hour drive home. I learned first hand how bad dehydration can effect performance - and that last 75 miles was about the worst place for me to find out. It might have been freezing cold for most of the event but you still sweat on the climbs and fluid loss through breath is fairly significant at altitude. 6 of the 8 passes were over 8,000ft and the other 2 were over 7,500.

Woa lot of stuff here. You lost 10pounds that corresponds to what? Did you go over 6% ?

First, before I forget. This happened to me in the past as a swim coach, then later as a tri coach. In swim Marathons sometimes swimmers get sick and they can sometimes barf for 3hours or more if you can't do anything. Once what I did was trying to put the athlete back on pure water. Barfed. Then I cut the interval of time between drinks from 15m to 10m to give him the impression that the race was still flowing (didn't tell him I had changed the protocol). And the trick was to put virtually nothing in the glass. No barf. Then little more. No barf. Long story short, 50min after he was back on 100% heavy loaded carbohydrate solution (500 Kcall per 500ml bottle) 250ml per sip. No barf.

It seems as if all he needed was to re-establish balance in the stomack with water. And the same thing happen to a female athlete in an HIM last year. Being on Antibiotics, she experienced gastric issues. Same here. She switched on water, barfed. Small sips, ok then build up back to carbs.

As for relying on liquid carbs, I could live a full week on poweraid pure, no water, hot 30deg I don't mind I just love that stuff. No gels for me.

Dehydration? 10 pounds, if it corresponds to say... 5% or more? + the deficit in calories, man. I've seen people lying in medical tents for less than that.

This is making me think. I'm starting someone on HIM soon, high level sort of athlete. I am thinking about a nice aerodynamic camel back filled with water. Let the tip float in the air don't use this unless necessary. Space is sometimes a factor, spoiling a bottle with water in a 5hr race for instance...

 

[SolarEnergy]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .

This is an interesting issue which just does not seem to really get answered with a fairly simple rule of thumb like drink every 15 minutes water and eat every so many calories so often. I know for outdoor rides I really do not feel as thirsty as I do indoors. Indoors buckets of sweat seem to be coming off while I do not get that same issue outdoors. Outdoors I often forget to drink at all especially when you are trying to keep up with a pack of riders. Hard to keep drinking while the pack is moving so fast.

Today I had to ride indoors as my wife had me going to a play and no amount of water could make a difference. The office was too hot and I died before I could finish my ride. The other thing on indoor rides and long rides outdoor there are times where no matter how much I drink I still feel thirsty.

I know there is just a bunch of personal observations above but would like to come up with a general idea that I could modify based upon my own experience riding.

-js

In total agreement here.

I have to confess. I was a bit hard on the scientist that published that. Well he kind of provoqued me mentionning among other things Gebrisselasie who could sustain a drop of 8% a think and still score a World Record. But not everything is to throw to garbage in this perspective he's trying to shed with his paper.

What's really worth noticing and I took good note. Most studies revealed that groups who were forced to drink on fixed interval performed less than those who were following thirst feeling.

Now. This, again like in tons of studies on sports performance in general, it is a bit protocol dependant.

Anyway, I have to confess that my recommandations now go more toward verifying on fixed intervals like having a sip as necessary. I will NOT instruct a long distance specialist to just forget about any protocol and drink when they feel like. And the reason is that they may be distracted during the race, thus taking their focus away from their feeling of thirst. Then wake up when they're really thirsty and drop a bottle and a half then barf.

 

[YosemiteGirl]

Cramping? I never get that far. If I get dehydrated I get dizzy and pass out. The end. I think you have to trust your own body and know what works for you. I am very good at hyper-focusing (I've been in sports since I was about 5) and blocking out pain so I just simply don't notice it. Drinking protocols can keep you from getting distracted.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by SolarEnergy .



Woa lot of stuff here. You lost 10pounds that corresponds to what? Did you go over 6% ?


Dehydration? 10 pounds, if it corresponds to say... 5% or more? + the deficit in calories, man. I've seen people lying in medical tents for less than that.

Slightly over - it works out to ~6.2%

I was exceedingly tired and making all sorts of dumb desicions. Then again some would argue that the latter is something that I do often.

 

[SolarEnergy]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .




Slightly over - it works out to ~6.2%

I was exceedingly tired and making all sorts of dumb desicions. Then again some would argue that the latter is something that I do often.

lol

Thanks for this data.

 

[An old Guy]

Dehydration is used by the body to keep the body temperature reasonable. I was drinking and sweating a lot over the past few days (temp 96+). Had to put a lot of water over my neck and head. Today, not so much drinking and no water over my head (temp 92).

98 or so is the critical number of degrees. Close to that and the body has a hard time getting rid of all the waste heat from bicycling. You should drink to control your temperature not to suit some schedule.

 

[tonyzackery]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .

Dehydration is used by the body to keep the body temperature reasonable. I was drinking and sweating a lot over the past few days (temp 96+). Had to put a lot of water over my neck and head. Today, not so much drinking and no water over my head (temp 92).

98 or so is the critical number of degrees. Close to that and the body has a hard time getting rid of all the waste heat from bicycling. You should drink to control your temperature not to suit some schedule.

Agree to disagree.

Have a plan, and try to stick to it. Better than 'flying by the seat of your pants'.
Take chances and risk dehydration? Why?
Warmer temps? Drink on a schedule more frequent. Cooler temps? Drink on a schedule less frequent.
You think you'll feeling too hot while cycling in 50F degree weather? No, obviously not, but you can still become dehydrated with its accompanying detrimental effects...

 

[davereo]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .

This is an interesting issue which just does not seem to really get answered with a fairly simple rule of thumb like drink every 15 minutes water and eat every so many calories so often. I know for outdoor rides I really do not feel as thirsty as I do indoors. Indoors buckets of sweat seem to be coming off while I do not get that same issue outdoors. Outdoors I often forget to drink at all especially when you are trying to keep up with a pack of riders. Hard to keep drinking while the pack is moving so fast.

Today I had to ride indoors as my wife had me going to a play and no amount of water could make a difference. The office was too hot and I died before I could finish my ride. The other thing on indoor rides and long rides outdoor there are times where no matter how much I drink I still feel thirsty.

I know there is just a bunch of personal observations above but would like to come up with a general idea that I could modify based upon my own experience riding.

-js

Get on the scale and weigh yourself. Hop on your trainer and ride for an hour without drinking water. Weigh yourself again and you have a fairly close weight of how much water you lost during your ride. Thus you should drink a little more than this amount while working out. Drink a good amount of water before your test ride so you dont dehydrate while riding.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by tonyzackery .

Have a plan, and try to stick to it. Better than 'flying by the seat of your pants'.
Take chances and risk dehydration? Why?

You have a plan of drinking on a schedule. Others have a plan of drinking when they feel thirsty. I use lots of water over my head when I get warm. All are plans.

As long as people have a solution to the problem and can recognize when to invoke the solution there is no need to seek out a better solution.

----

I really liked Floyd Landis' solution in the TdF. Lots of water over the head. More beneficial than any amount of drinking.