Get on the pavement!

Simon Mason said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside, leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

I refer the Right Honourable Gentleman to a reply I gave on the 18th of
April this year:

HOLD YOUR HORN ON INTIMIDATION

09:30 - 18 April 2005

I Was cycling to work along Hedon Road the other day when the driver of a
Land Rover pulled close and sounded his horn at me angrily pointing to the
parallel bike path.

He did this despite having an empty dual carriageway to drive on.

Luckily, this sort of abuse is rare, but it is no wonder cyclists use the
pavements if drivers feel the need to intimidate cyclists in this fashion.

Hedon Road did not have "no cycling" signs on it, so I was entitled to ride
there.

The reason I was not using the cycle path was because I ride at speeds of up
to 25 mph.

When riding in the cycle path you have to give way at each works entrance
and roundabout. At that speed this is inconvenient and unsafe.

I hope this driver is consistent and sounds his horn to all drivers in the
bus lane in Anlaby Road.

After all, they are breaking the law. I am not.

Good letter! Should the need arise, would you object to its
reuse (with suitable changes an localisation) in some local paper?

BugBear

"bugbear" <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote in message
news:42b81bb1$0

Quoted message said:

Good letter! Should the need arise, would you object to its
reuse (with suitable changes an localisation) in some local paper?

Not at all - if you can shoehorn it into another similar situation :-)

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

wafflycat said:

"audrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I feel like remarking
loudly (in a phrase borrowed from somone on this NG, forget who sorry)
"What a shame their mummy and daddy won't let them ride their bikes on
the road".

Nathan, aged 16 coined it ;-)

Is Nathan going to start contributing to the group in his own right soon?
Having heard so much about him I'm sure a youngster of his ilk would add
a tremendous amount to the discussions.

John B

in message <[email hidden]>, Colin

McKenzie (') said:

dkahn400 said:

Quoted message said:

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside,
leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

He didn't have one of those "How's my driving?" stickers on the back,
did he? The increase in motorist aggression is one of the nastier
side effects of on-road and on-pavement cycle facilities. I'm
becoming increasingly convinced that they are necessarily dangerous,
even the very few that meet decent standards.

I've heard of a bus driver doing this too. It needs to be reported to
management and/or police. It's dangerous driving, by any measure.

Management /and/ police, no 'or' about it. It's lethally dangerous
driving. If the driver carries on doing that, sooner or later he /will/
kill someone, and it's hard to call that 'an accident'.

And yes, I too am of the opinion that cycle lanes and shared-use
pavements should be banned, precisely because of this sort of
behaviour.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm sure the shared use facilities are partly responsible for the huge
recent growth in pavement cycling. It's the number of respectable
looking middle aged cyclists with helmets and Sam Browne belts riding
along on the pavement with a saintly air that persuades me of this. The
sort of people you couldn't imagine knowingly breaking any law.

I've noticed this phenonomon too, I'm totally bemused to see "respectable"
citizens cycling on the pavement even when the adjacent road is deserted.
Obviously the usual excuse of "road too dangerous" is non-applicable.
I feel like shouting: "what's up, is the road broken?"

--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

"Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That's another problem, when they occassionaly get it right, they ruin it

with

Quoted message said:

inconsistancy.

What's that all about? I mean when there is a lane marked only on sections
of a road. Either segregation is a good idea and should be implemented 100%
or it's unneccessary and therefore why waste money on it at all.

Rhetorical question really.
--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

Peter B said:

I've noticed this phenonomon too, I'm totally bemused to see "respectable"
citizens cycling on the pavement even when the adjacent road is deserted.
Obviously the usual excuse of "road too dangerous" is non-applicable.
I feel like shouting: "what's up, is the road broken?"

I don't think I'd be able to ride on the pavements round here, there'd
be too many parked cars in the way.

(They're a real PITA when I'm pushing a double buggy).

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Terry D said:

The worst thing about pavement psychlepaths is the growing belief that
ALL pavements are psychlepaths by default. A letter in our local paper
last week appeared to support this view. The writer was calling for
'audible approach warning devices' to be fitted to all bicycles to
prevent the 'silent menace' from sneaking up on unsuspecting members
of public and scaring the [censored] out of them.

I'm sure the shared use facilities are partly responsible for the huge
recent growth in pavement cycling.

Last night my wife took my 11yo son to a county-wide road safety quiz,
as he was in one of the teams. One of the questions asked was "If you're
cycling along the pavement, and need to cross a pedestrian crossing,
what should you do?". My wife, who was in the audience watching, turned
to his teacher next to her and said "You shouldn't be cycling on the
pavement to start with". The teacher's reply, relayed to me later that
evening stunned and saddened me. Apparently the during the cycling
skills course taught to the children in school they are taught to cycle
on the pavement "because the roads are too dangerous".

So it seems that pavement cycling is being actively promoted anyway 🙁

--
Colin

Coincidence is the alibi of the Gods

dkahn400 said:

Quoted message said:

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside, leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

He didn't have one of those "How's my driving?" stickers on the back,
did he?

I've rang those people running the "excuse for no management
involvement" "hows my driving?" schemes a few times, once I got a
response from the actual company the contractor was working for, mostly
its to stop people jamming their switch boards with complaints....

That said at work I have had some effect reporting contractors for
dangerous driving on-site (Union safety reps hat on), however the
Unilink contract buses are beyond even that having any effect.

Badger.

LSMike said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the way to work there is a nice wide smooth road, and alongside it
a fairly narrow pavement replete with overhanging trees and Magic
White Paint. Quite frequently, members of the motoring fraternity see
fit to inform me of its presence (a fact of which I am well aware,
thanks).

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside, leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

All of which, naturally, reinforces my determination not to be driven
off the road and onto the pavement by the clueless [censored].

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Dreaded swine. Sorry to hear you have to keep getting exposed to this Guy.
At least this is good mental toughness training.

Sometimes I'd really like some kind of video recording black box that
records audio and video where I'm looking, stops with a high G reading, and
otherwise continuously loops 10 minutes or so.

In a few years that will be possible for less than £100.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside, leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the message
posters in urc.
Without exception, I have had nothing but courteous behaviour when being
overtaken by
artics, many of them moving over a complete lane when sweeping past on a
dual carriageway.
In more restricted spaces, they slow down and wait patiently until it's safe
to pass. Under
those circumstances, I always seek to find a spot to pull over/in to
facilitate overtaking.

I have more acts of agression taken against me when driving my Micra than
when I'm on my bike.
Perhaps it the reluctance of drivers to engage in conflict with an obviously
big feller and assume
that the person behind the Micra's steering wheel is fair game...dunno ...

"vernon levy" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside, leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the message
posters in urc.
Without exception, I have had nothing but courteous behaviour when being
overtaken by
artics, many of them moving over a complete lane when sweeping past on a
dual carriageway.
In more restricted spaces, they slow down and wait patiently until it's safe
to pass. Under
those circumstances, I always seek to find a spot to pull over/in to
facilitate overtaking.

Quoted message said:

I have more acts of agression taken against me when driving my Micra than
when I'm on my bike.
Perhaps it the reluctance of drivers to engage in conflict with an obviously
big feller and assume
that the person behind the Micra's steering wheel is fair game...dunno ...

Yebbut Guy Chapman is no midget...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

vernon levy said:

Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the message
posters in urc.
Without exception, I have had nothing but courteous behaviour when being
overtaken by
artics, many of them moving over a complete lane when sweeping past on a
dual carriageway.
In more restricted spaces, they slow down and wait patiently until it's safe
to pass. Under
those circumstances, I always seek to find a spot to pull over/in to
facilitate overtaking.

Had one today - a B&Q artic that followed me down the hill at a decent
distance. At the bottom it opened out to a dual carriageway and a red
light. As the lights changed I waved him past but looking back up at
the cab he was insisting I led off and followed me while I crossed over
to a right turn filter lane. Top marks that man

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

"vernon levy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the
message
posters in urc.
Without exception, I have had nothing but courteous behaviour when being
overtaken by
artics, many of them moving over a complete lane when sweeping past on a
dual carriageway.

Must admit, there's a lot of artics on the lanes round me and almost without
fail they are extremely courteous drivers behind the wheels of the large
beasties - more so than many a car driver... or white van man! I always try
to wave a 'thank you' or say 'thank you' to a courteous driver.

Cheers, helen s

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the way to work there is a nice wide smooth road, and alongside it
a fairly narrow pavement replete with overhanging trees and Magic
White Paint. Quite frequently, members of the motoring fraternity see
fit to inform me of its presence (a fact of which I am well aware,
thanks).

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside, leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

All of which, naturally, reinforces my determination not to be driven
off the road and onto the pavement by the clueless [censored].

Guy

Glad to hear you're ok.

We had a similar problem locally, where the council, South Glos, had put in
a substandard, shared use path (is there any other kind?) next to a main
road. All the sensible cyclists stayed on the road, for all the usual
reasons, but the local Royal Mail drivers, whose employers had paid for the
junction "improvements" so that they could get their scheme through the
planning dept. did everything you've described.

After numerous complaints to the police of dangerous driving, intimidation
etc, the management of RM did take some action, and warned several drivers.
However the turnover of drivers is such that the effects never last long.
Eventually we had a meeting with the drivers' union reps, the RM management,
the local CTC and BUGs, and the police. The ignorance of the union reps was
astonishing: they thought the substandard shared use path was mandatory for
cyclists, and that cyclists must be safer on it. We soon disabused them of
their mistaken beliefs, but if these "professional" drivers thought that,
how many others do?

The incidence of deliberate intimidating driving from RM drivers is now at
vanishing point, but we still can't get the council to take out the abysmal
shared path. We did get them to put some cycle symbols in the main
carriageway, but they didn't put enough in, and they definitely aren't keen
to at least double the number.

Colin said:

Last night my wife took my 11yo son to a county-wide road safety quiz,
as he was in one of the teams. One of the questions asked was "If you're
cycling along the pavement, and need to cross a pedestrian crossing,
what should you do?". My wife, who was in the audience watching, turned
to his teacher next to her and said "You shouldn't be cycling on the
pavement to start with". The teacher's reply, relayed to me later that
evening stunned and saddened me. Apparently the during the cycling
skills course taught to the children in school they are taught to cycle
on the pavement "because the roads are too dangerous".

However that is not what the approved National Standards say about cycle
instruction though - perhaps something you should take up with the
training providers. They are clearly offering substandard instruction.

Quoted message said:

So it seems that pavement cycling is being actively promoted anyway 🙁

Local authorities keep trying this one on.
'Less cyclists on the road mean less casualties - which helps them to
meet their targets' - this is almost a word for word quote from a senior
road safety officer.
My LA promotes the idea that no child under 10 should ever be allowed on
the road :-(

John B

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yebbut Guy Chapman is no midget...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

He probably doesn't look so big lying down on the job though?

vernon levy said:

Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the
message posters in urc.
Without exception, I have had nothing but courteous behaviour when
being overtaken by
artics, many of them moving over a complete lane when sweeping past
on a dual carriageway.
In more restricted spaces, they slow down and wait patiently until
it's safe to pass. Under
those circumstances, I always seek to find a spot to pull over/in to
facilitate overtaking.

I think they respond well to good vehicular cycling. Unlike many car
drivers, most of them have grown out of the 'sporting driving' and just want
to get from A to B with as little hastle as possible.

However like us they are heavily (sorry) influenced by momentum. It takes
time and fuel to get them up to speed and they try to keep that going.

If you behave in a predictable and sensible maner they are able to accomdate
you and will. If you [censored] about and expect them to make rapid changes in
speed or direction they get narked.

Unlike car drivers they don't get pissy if you overtake them, don't
accelerate to close a gap out of spite, and dont get in a hissy fit if you
delay them for a few second.
--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

in message <[email hidden]>, vernon levy

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Today one of them took it a little further, pulling alongside,
leaning
on his horn and moving towards the kerb. Which was unpleasant.
Especially since he was driving a 38T articulated truck...

Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in the same country as some of the
message posters in urc.
Without exception, I have had nothing but courteous behaviour when
being overtaken by
artics, many of them moving over a complete lane when sweeping past on
a dual carriageway.
In more restricted spaces, they slow down and wait patiently until
it's safe
to pass. Under
those circumstances, I always seek to find a spot to pull over/in to
facilitate overtaking.

That's generally my experience, too. But I think Britain is a
geographically diverse place, and I think you'll find that most of the
people making these complaints live in the outer circles of Hell (Guy,
for example, lives in Reading). Life is generally much more pressured
there. People there are generally more stressed, more aggressive, less
tolerant - at least, that's my experience.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous

LSMike said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yebbut Guy Chapman is no midget...

He probably doesn't look so big lying down on the job though?

I think we'll have to defer to Mrs. Chapman for a definitive answer on
that one.

--
Dave...