Get that man an 8 Freight!



Douglas Steel <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark McNeill wrote:
>> or at least a decent set of panniers.
>>
>> "Cameron's secret shoe chauffeur"
>>
>> http://politics.guardian.co.uk/conservatives/story/0,,1763537,00.html
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/r2e43
>>
>> When questioned about the environmental impact of personal transport for
>> Mr Cameron's belongings, a Tory spokesman said: "If he could carry all
>> of the boxes of documents on his bike, then he would."

> I wonder when Westminster will move into the 20th Century (I'd
> hate to speculate when they'd move into the 21st Century)
> and start keeping these documents electronically rather than having
> to cart around lumps of processed dead tree everywhere ?

Be careful. At their last modernisation, when the Treasury decided to
get rid of the split tally sticks they no longer used for recording
financial transactions, there was a great debate about what to do with
the tally stick archives. Some lefty types wanted to give them away to
the poor for firewood, but it was pointed out that agents of a Foreign
Power might get hold of clues to Important Government Secrets that
way. So in the interests of national security they made a bonfire of
them. Whcih got out of control and burned down the houses of
parliament.

I'd be rather careful about recommending modernisation to the
Westminster numbskulls. They'd be bound to make a complete **** of
it. Point me to one large reform they haven't made a dreadful mess of.
I think we should keep Westminster on as a relatively toothless
traditional constitutional parliament, rather like our constitutional
monarchy. Like the monarchy, it would keep the bastards who really run
the show from getting too big for their boots.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Pinky på
[email protected] den 06-04-28 14.41:
>
> "Bryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Ian Blake Wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the Bob Yak although very good is overpriced. Many others
>>> such as Zwei Plus Zwei Croozer Cargo will do the job at half the
>>> price.
>>
>> I agree it is overpriced, but all the single wheel trailers (e.g.
>> Monoporter) seem to be very expensive, shame as I would really like
>> one. (I know EBC supply one, but seem to remember reading a review that
>> said it had quite a few faults).
>>
>> Bryan
>>
> I am very happy with my BOB Yak trailer (it was £235 from Gearshift last
> December). I had a look-see at the EBC one and I was not filled with
> enthusiasm . I had the good fortune to try a BOB Yak last year, for a day,
> while cycling down the Danube and was very impressed -- a simple and
> effective hitch too!. Huge improvement in handling my velo without its 4
> panniers!
> When I get back from my 2006 Rhein/Mosel Tour ( starting in 3 weeks time) I
> will tell you what I think of it after 2000 kms on the clock. So far on
> training runs I am doing virtually full load runs of about 20 miles a day
> and the trailer has behave impeccably.
>
> I would not consider a two wheeled trailer at all.


I've done some research on the web and lots of people extol the virtues of
their cargo bike, their two-wheeled trailer, or their one-wheeled trailer.
But very few have actually compared two of the three, let alone all three.
It's quite exasperating from the point of view of someone wanting to arrive
at an informed opinion.

So I must squarely ask you, why would you not even *consider* a two wheeled
trailer, *at all*?

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:
> I've done some research on the web and lots of people extol the virtues of
> their cargo bike, their two-wheeled trailer, or their one-wheeled trailer.
> But very few have actually compared two of the three, let alone all three.
> It's quite exasperating from the point of view of someone wanting to arrive
> at an informed opinion.
>
> So I must squarely ask you, why would you not even *consider* a two wheeled
> trailer, *at all*?

IMO there are a number of pros and cons for each. This is not an
exhaustive list.

Cargo bike:
+ Designed to take loads.
+ the load is between the wheels so the front doesn't lift up on hills.
- expensive and takes a lot of space.

Single wheel trailer:
+ narrow and easy to pull. Tracks the towing bike.
+ easy to store
+ easy to detatch from the bike - only need one multipurpose bike.
- limited load capacity
- limited stability for large loads
- towing bike not necessarily designed for the task, especially on
steep hills.

Two wheel trailer:
+ big load carrying capacity.
+ stable for loading/unloading.
- bulky - manouverability round obstacles can be hard.
- big loads + hills = issues for the towing bike.

...d
 
David Martin wrote:

>
> IMO there are a number of pros and cons for each. This is not an
> exhaustive list.

Wot the man said. I've used two wheel trailers, load carrying bikes
and trikes and own a Yak.

I went with a one wheel trailer because I need to be able to get
it through barriers on cycle paths easily and didn't need the
extra load carrying capacity of a two wheel trike. YMMV.

Arhtur

--
Arthur Clune
 
On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:57:44 +0000, Arthur Clune wrote:
> a two wheel trike.

"Bike" appears to be the preferred word in these parts! ;-)

</pedant>

ITYM "trailer".

Jon
 
in message <C07D62BD.1C7AD%[email protected]>, Erik Sandblom
('[email protected]') wrote:

> i artikel [email protected], skrev Pinky
> pÃ¥ [email protected] den 06-04-28 14.41:
>>
>> "Bryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Ian Blake Wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think the Bob Yak although very good is overpriced. Many others
>>>> such as Zwei Plus Zwei Croozer Cargo will do the job at half the
>>>> price.
>>>
>>> I agree it is overpriced, but all the single wheel trailers (e.g.
>>> Monoporter) seem to be very expensive, shame as I would really like
>>> one. (I know EBC supply one, but seem to remember reading a review
>>> that said it had quite a few faults).
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>> I am very happy with my BOB Yak trailer (it was £235 from Gearshift
>> last December). I had a look-see at the EBC one and I was not filled
>> with enthusiasm . I had the good fortune to try a BOB Yak last year,
>> for a day, while cycling down the Danube and was very impressed -- a
>> simple and effective hitch too!. Huge improvement in handling my velo
>> without its 4 panniers!
>> When I get back from my 2006 Rhein/Mosel Tour ( starting in 3 weeks
>> time) I
>> will tell you what I think of it after 2000 kms on the clock. So far
>> on training runs I am doing virtually full load runs of about 20 miles
>> a day and the trailer has behave impeccably.
>>
>> I would not consider a two wheeled trailer at all.
>
>
> I've done some research on the web and lots of people extol the virtues
> of their cargo bike, their two-wheeled trailer, or their one-wheeled
> trailer. But very few have actually compared two of the three, let
> alone all three. It's quite exasperating from the point of view of
> someone wanting to arrive at an informed opinion.
>
> So I must squarely ask you, why would you not even *consider* a two
> wheeled trailer, *at all*?

I used a two wheeled trailer for a long time - about ten years - as my
normal way of carrying anything that wouldn't fit in a bar bag. This
sold me on the usefulness of the concept of a trailer, vs panniers. I
haven't yet got much experience with a one wheeler trailer (just a quick
ride around town). However, I'm even more persuaded by the usefulness of
the concept.

The key thing is, if you ride at any speed, sooner or later one wheel of
a two wheeler is going to hit a pothole or a stone that the other
doesn't, and then the trailer is going to overturn. I've never had a
crash because of a trailer overturning, but there's no question it's
disconcerting. As far as trailers go, I'm convinced that one wheel is
the way to go.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

> The key thing is, if you ride at any speed, sooner or later one wheel of
> a two wheeler is going to hit a pothole or a stone that the other
> doesn't, and then the trailer is going to overturn.

Something of an assumptive leap! If you hit a very prominent pothole or
stone with one wheel and not the other when at speed and it's a narrow
track trailer with not much load then a two wheeler /might/ flip. Not
quite the same as above...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
> The key thing is, if you ride at any speed, sooner or later one wheel of
> a two wheeler is going to hit a pothole or a stone that the other
> doesn't, and then the trailer is going to overturn.

Depends on the track and the loading. I have *never* had a trailer
overturn despite years of abuse, but mine have had quite large track
(85-90cm) and the weight quite low. With live cargo I havn't been going
so fast that it would flip, but even with non-complaining cargo 30mph
(15mph downhill off road) didn't lead to the pear shaped scenario you
outline.


> I've never had a
> crash because of a trailer overturning, but there's no question it's
> disconcerting. As far as trailers go, I'm convinced that one wheel is
> the way to go.

Difficult to fit a bed on a one wheel trailer, or the weekly shopping
run..

...d
 
"David Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Difficult to fit a bed on a one wheel trailer, or the weekly shopping
> run..

My beds tend to stay where they are, so that really isn't an issue. And the
weekly shopping does fit in the BOB.

cheers,
clive
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

>
> The key thing is, if you ride at any speed, sooner or later one wheel of
> a two wheeler is going to hit a pothole or a stone that the other
> doesn't, and then the trailer is going to overturn.

After many years of heavy use I've never got anywhere near that scenario,
and mine's a pretty standard two-wheel design (Vitelli)
A wheel would probably have to bounce about half-a-metre to get close to
overturning, and that just isn't going to happen.
Track is 700mm and much of the load is below the axle height which makes
loss of control even less likely.

Even when using the Burley child trailer which a higher CoG it just never
got close to flipping, and that included some pretty fast mountain descents.

Perhaps it may occur with the BikeHod type design but I suspect that a
two-wheel trailer overturning is a *very* rare occurrence.

IMO, the advantages of two wheels far outweigh those of a single wheel,
although I may feel differently if i ever had need to take a trailer
off-road.

John B
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Peter Clinch på
[email protected] den 06-05-03 14.27:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>> The key thing is, if you ride at any speed, sooner or later one wheel of
>> a two wheeler is going to hit a pothole or a stone that the other
>> doesn't, and then the trailer is going to overturn.
>
> Something of an assumptive leap! If you hit a very prominent pothole or
> stone with one wheel and not the other when at speed and it's a narrow
> track trailer with not much load then a two wheeler /might/ flip. Not
> quite the same as above...


Apart from the specific wording "will overturn", Simon makes a good point.
Even if it doesn't tip over, it will still bounce, be unstable, tug at the
hitch, rattle the load, possibly drop something, and cause consternation.

I think BOB and Weber should mention this on their websites. They mention
off-roading and thin paths, but it would be an issue if you do a lot of
trailering on paved roads/asphalt too.

BOB and Weber both offer suspension on their one-wheelers, improving the
performance further. At the Spezi 2005, CarryFreedom showed their Y-Frame
with double flatbeds and a bicycle tube between. This simple suspension
would protect the load and help prevent dropping things, but it would not
reduce the tugging at the hitch very much. Suspension should be as close to
the wheel as possible.

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 
wafflycat wrote:
> I see, so far, Cameron being a small light in the dim recesses of Tory
> nastiness

His actual policies, especially when it comes to economics, are
dyed-in-the-wool Tory. If that's what you want to vote for, fair enough,
but please don't vote for him just cos he seems like a nice bloke.

d.
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:
> Apart from the specific wording "will overturn", Simon makes a good point.
> Even if it doesn't tip over, it will still bounce, be unstable, tug at the
> hitch, rattle the load, possibly drop something, and cause consternation.

bounce, yes but so will a single wheel trailer.
be unstable - no not at all.
tug at the hitch - as much as a single wheel with the same load.
rattle the load - as much as a single wheel trailer.
possibly drop something - as much as a swt.
cause consternation - only when trying to get through too narrow a gap.

> I think BOB and Weber should mention this on their websites. They mention
> off-roading and thin paths, but it would be an issue if you do a lot of
> trailering on paved roads/asphalt too.

It isn't an issue.

> BOB and Weber both offer suspension on their one-wheelers, improving the
> performance further.

Mu child trailer has suspension and is rated to 60kg. I had considered
putting suspension on the cargo trailer but not got round to it. One
can always use a bundle of carrymats or similar if needs be.

> At the Spezi 2005, CarryFreedom showed their Y-Frame
> with double flatbeds and a bicycle tube between. This simple suspension
> would protect the load and help prevent dropping things, but it would not
> reduce the tugging at the hitch very much. Suspension should be as close to
> the wheel as possible.

I am perplexed as to this 'tugging at the hitch'. It is only the case
if the hitch has multiple degrees of flexibility (which mine does cos
the weber axle hitch isn't of the best) and really isn't much of a
problem, even with a load exceeding that at which a swt is rated.

I think the problems are exaggerated. The ultimate choice comes down
to:

What do you want to carry,
Where do you want to carry it
How much space do you have to store it.

After that, the precise 1/2 wheel choice is down to the individual.

...d
 
davek wrote:

> His actual policies, especially when it comes to economics, are
> dyed-in-the-wool Tory. If that's what you want to vote for, fair enough,
> but please don't vote for him just cos he seems like a nice bloke.

Or just because he rides a bike, for that matter...

I'm more likely to vote for DC than any other Tory leader that's been in
the job while I've been old enough to vote (Mrs. T and on), but that's
faint praise as the chances are still /vanishingly/ small.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
"davek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wafflycat wrote:
>> I see, so far, Cameron being a small light in the dim recesses of Tory
>> nastiness
>
> His actual policies, especially when it comes to economics, are
> dyed-in-the-wool Tory. If that's what you want to vote for, fair enough,
> but please don't vote for him just cos he seems like a nice bloke.
>
> d


Where did I say I would vote for him. Indeed what I said was,

"Being entirely upfront about the Conservatives, I remember the damage
Thatcher did to much of the country and how she really set in motion the
selfish society, I really, really do not like much Conservatism of said era
and am unlikely to vote Tory unless I see *major* and long term changes in
what I've seen of the Tories in the past."

Cameron cycling isn't a *major* change and there's still too many Tory
nasties in said party...

Cheers, helen s
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> davek wrote:
>
> > His actual policies, especially when it comes to economics, are
> > dyed-in-the-wool Tory. If that's what you want to vote for, fair enough,
> > but please don't vote for him just cos he seems like a nice bloke.
>
> Or just because he rides a bike, for that matter...
>
> I'm more likely to vote for DC than any other Tory leader that's been in
> the job while I've been old enough to vote (Mrs. T and on), but that's
> faint praise as the chances are still /vanishingly/ small.

Some more advice on load carrying from the telegraph..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...cam03.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/03/ixhome.html

...d
 
David Martin wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> > davek wrote:
> >
> > > His actual policies, especially when it comes to economics, are
> > > dyed-in-the-wool Tory. If that's what you want to vote for, fair enough,
> > > but please don't vote for him just cos he seems like a nice bloke.
> >
> > Or just because he rides a bike, for that matter...
> >
> > I'm more likely to vote for DC than any other Tory leader that's been in
> > the job while I've been old enough to vote (Mrs. T and on), but that's
> > faint praise as the chances are still /vanishingly/ small.
>
> Some more advice on load carrying from the telegraph..
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...cam03.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/03/ixhome.html

and the bikebiz take on it..
http://www.bikeforall.net/cms/resources/resource-24-davechameleon.jpg
 
in message <[email protected]>, John B
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>> The key thing is, if you ride at any speed, sooner or later one wheel
>> of a two wheeler is going to hit a pothole or a stone that the other
>> doesn't, and then the trailer is going to overturn.
>
> After many years of heavy use I've never got anywhere near that
> scenario, and mine's a pretty standard two-wheel design (Vitelli)
> A wheel would probably have to bounce about half-a-metre to get close
> to overturning, and that just isn't going to happen.

No? You aren't adventurous enough.

> Track is 700mm and much of the load is below the axle height which
> makes loss of control even less likely.
>
> Even when using the Burley child trailer which a higher CoG it just
> never got close to flipping, and that included some pretty fast
> mountain descents.
>
> Perhaps it may occur with the BikeHod type design but I suspect that a
> two-wheel trailer overturning is a *very* rare occurrence.

Well, I'll admit mine was a Bike Hod (and I'd say it's a very useful
trailer at modest speeds and for urban use) but I could easily capsize
it without resorting to stones or potholes - just fast cornering was
enough. And as for very rare, no, not at all. More common than
p*nct*res.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

X-no-archive: No, I'm not *that* naive.
 
wafflycat wrote:
> Where did I say I would vote for him.

Er...

OK, so maybe I was jumping to conclusions, but a lot of people do seem
to be talking about voting for him pretty much on the grounds that he is
a nice bloke/a cyclist/not Tony Blair.

I'm not convinced that DC is such a nice bloke anyway - scratch the
surface...

d.
 
davek wrote:
>
> I'm not convinced that DC is such a nice bloke anyway - scratch the
> surface...
>

He's a politician, what d'you expect?


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
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