Getting back into it...

[J . Brian Chamb]

Because of a knee injury and an operation last summer, my bike has been collecting dust for 2 years
now. I just dropped it off at a near by shop for a check over and the replacement of some minor
parts. I'm going to start off slow as I have to build strength back into my knee but thinking about
riding again, has be concerned about one thing. Hand numbness. My hands used to get numb all the
time and I never figured out why. Would shocks help? I don't currently have them but I saw some
RockShocks that weren't too expensive. I'm not even sure if this is the brand I should get so I'm
open to any suggestions. If all goes well with the knee, I'll get into more serious trails. It's
just going to take some time.

Thanks, Brian

 

[Bb]

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:02:43 GMT, J Brian Chamberlin wrote:

> Hand numbness. My hands used to get numb all the time and I never figured out why. Would
> shocks help?

Probably. There are other things that help as well Gloves are a must, and bar-ends are a nice add-on
to allow you to change your hand position from time to time. Do a Google search and you'll find
dozens of threads about hand numbness.

> I don't currently have them but I saw some RockShocks that weren't too expensive. I'm not even
> sure if this is the brand I should get so I'm open to any suggestions. If all goes well with the
> knee, I'll get into more serious trails. It's just going to take some time.

Like many things, "it depends". There are certainly better (and more durable) forks, but inexpensive
RockShox will work for lighter riding (particularly if you're not a real heavy dude). Many of the
guys who ride hard and ride a lot will insist that its Marzocchi or nothing, but a set of those
forks may cost more than you spent on your bike.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

 

[J . Brian Chamb]

On 19 Apr 2003 15:35:39 GMT, BB <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:02:43 GMT, J Brian Chamberlin wrote:
>
>> Hand numbness. My hands used to get numb all the time and I never figured out why. Would
>> shocks help?
>
>Probably. There are other things that help as well Gloves are a must, and bar-ends are a nice
>add-on to allow you to change your hand position from time to time. Do a Google search and you'll
>find dozens of threads about hand numbness.
>
>> I don't currently have them but I saw some RockShocks that weren't too expensive. I'm not even
>> sure if this is the brand I should get so I'm open to any suggestions. If all goes well with the
>> knee, I'll get into more serious trails. It's just going to take some time.
>
>Like many things, "it depends". There are certainly better (and more durable) forks, but
>inexpensive RockShox will work for lighter riding (particularly if you're not a real heavy dude).
>Many of the guys who ride hard and ride a lot will insist that its Marzocchi or nothing, but a set
>of those forks may cost more than you spent on your bike.

Yeah, I don't have a real expensive bike.. it's just a Trek 7000. It's a couple of years old but in
real good shape. I think it was about $750 when I bought it back then. The guy at the shop seemed to
really like it but I never learned too much about mountain bikes. Marzocchi shocks, eh? Maybe I'll
just stick with the Rocks. What should I expect to pay for a nice one?

--Brian

 

[Bb]

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:20:34 GMT, J Brian Chamberlin wrote:

> Marzocchi shocks, eh? Maybe I'll just stick with the Rocks. What should I expect to pay for a
> nice one?

They run the gamut from under $100 up to several hundred. I'd recommend you check around online
before buying something locally, just to get an idea on pricing. www.mtbr.com can lead you to a
number of online retailers. As much as we like to support local bike shops, I've found that they
really tend to jack up the price on suspension forks.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

 

[Jimmy]

On 19 Apr 2003 15:35:39 GMT, BB <[email protected]> reckoned:

>Probably. There are other things that help as well Gloves are a must, and bar-ends are a nice
>add-on to allow you to change your hand position from time to time. Do a Google search and you'll
>find dozens of threads about hand numbness.

I just got back into biking again after a 4.5 year hiatus and always used bar ends back when I was
cycling because apart form helping with hill climbing they really do help with hand comfort too. The
thing is that when I bought my new bike the other day the guys at the store said bar ends are out of
fashion now, along with straight bars. How stupid is that? People don't use bar ends because they
are out of fashion? Well, what about cycling efficiency? Have all the bikers gone nuts or what? I
don't even like these riser bars they all have now because they don't help put your body in a more
aerodynamic position. The only way I can see riser bars being an advantage is if all you do is
downhill or have a bad lower back, even then I don't really see them as an advantage. Riser bars
five years ago were for sissies and people over 70. And what's with the stems pointing on an 85
degree angle up? The first thing I did was get the shop to change that to a stem with about 10
degree angle - pronto. And I will be putting on a straight bar and bar ends because it is just a
better design for numerous reasons. Riser bars are for fashion whores.

 

[B A R R Y B U R]

BB wrote:
>
> On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:02:43 GMT, J Brian Chamberlin wrote:
>
> > Hand numbness. My hands used to get numb all the time and I never figured out why. Would
> > shocks help?
>

A shorter stem may be in order. If the bars are too far in front of you, you will lean over too far,
putting a disproportionate amount of your upper body weight on your hands (and wrists). A look at
your position by a trusted LBS may be necessary.

Barry

 

[Jd]

J. Brian Chamberlin <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On 19 Apr 2003 15:35:39 GMT, BB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:02:43 GMT, J Brian Chamberlin wrote:
> >
> >> Hand numbness. My hands used to get numb all the time and I never figured out why. Would shocks
> >> help?
> >
> >Probably. There are other things that help as well Gloves are a must, and bar-ends are a nice
> >add-on to allow you to change your hand position from time to time. Do a Google search and you'll
> >find dozens of threads about hand numbness.
> >
> >> I don't currently have them but I saw some RockShocks that weren't too expensive. I'm not even
> >> sure if this is the brand I should get so I'm open to any suggestions. If all goes well with
> >> the knee, I'll get into more serious trails. It's just going to take some time.
> >
> >Like many things, "it depends". There are certainly better (and more durable) forks, but
> >inexpensive RockShox will work for lighter riding (particularly if you're not a real heavy dude).
> >Many of the guys who ride hard and ride a lot will insist that its Marzocchi or nothing, but a
> >set of those forks may cost more than you spent on your bike.
>
> Yeah, I don't have a real expensive bike.. it's just a Trek 7000. It's a couple of years old but
> in real good shape. I think it was about $750 when I bought it back then. The guy at the shop
> seemed to really like it but I never learned too much about mountain bikes. Marzocchi shocks, eh?
> Maybe I'll just stick with the Rocks. What should I expect to pay for a nice one?

There is no such thing as a nice rockshox fork. Nobody needs a shock on their bike, just as nobody
needed one 100 years ago.

StepBrother JD

 

[Tj]

"Jimmy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 19 Apr 2003 15:35:39 GMT, BB <[email protected]> reckoned:
>
>
> >Probably. There are other things that help as well Gloves are a must, and bar-ends are a nice
> >add-on to allow you to change your hand position from time to time. Do a Google search and you'll
> >find dozens of threads about hand numbness.
>
> I just got back into biking again after a 4.5 year hiatus and always used bar ends back when I was
> cycling because apart form helping with hill climbing they really do help with hand comfort too.
> The thing is that when I bought my new bike the other day the guys at the store said bar ends are
> out of fashion now, along with straight bars. How stupid is that? People don't use bar ends
> because they are out of fashion? Well, what about cycling efficiency? Have all the bikers gone
> nuts or what? I don't even like these riser bars they all have now because they don't help put
> your body in a more aerodynamic position. The only way I can see riser bars being an advantage is
> if all you do is downhill or have a bad lower back, even then I don't really see them as an
> advantage. Riser bars five years ago were for sissies and people over 70. And what's with the
> stems pointing on an 85 degree angle up? The first thing I did was get the shop to change that to
> a stem with about 10 degree angle - pronto. And I will be putting on a straight bar and bar ends
> because it is just a better design for numerous reasons. Riser bars are for fashion whores.

If you like riding over the front axle on your bike. Go for the zero rise way out over the front
wheel, more likely to join the OTB club. Follow this advice. If you like to be able to get the fron
wheel up in a hurry. And not steer on an arc. Get a short stem, with risers. Longer stems only make
up for short TT length. Aerodynamic is a funny term in mountain biking. Most average speeds are
under 10 mph. Ride some technical trails. Then check your average speed.

LMAO.

TJ

 

[Superslinky]

Jimmy said...

> Riser bars are for fashion whores.

No, it just depends on what kind of riding you do and personal preference. Both schools of thought
have their good points and bad points. Maybe your bike dealer didn't choose his words very
carefully. Out of fashion doesn't have to mean the poseur kind of fashion. It can just mean that the
general opinion on handlebar design has changed.

 

[..::Tbf::..]

--
http://members.rogers.com/theblackfoxx/ "SuperSlinky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jimmy said...
>
> > Riser bars are for fashion whores.
>
> No, it just depends on what kind of riding you do and personal preference. Both schools of thought
> have their good points and bad points. Maybe your bike dealer didn't choose his words very
> carefully. Out of fashion doesn't have to mean the poseur kind of fashion. It can just mean that
> the general opinion on handlebar design has changed.

good answer

 

[Jd]

"TJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dimmy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 19 Apr 2003 15:35:39 GMT, BB <[email protected]> reckoned:
> >
> >
> > >Probably. There are other things that help as well Gloves are a must, and bar-ends are a nice
> > >add-on to allow you to change your hand position from time to time. Do a Google search and
> > >you'll find dozens of threads about hand numbness.
> >
> > I just got back into biking again after a 4.5 year hiatus and always used bar ends back when I
> > was cycling because apart form helping with hill climbing they really do help with hand comfort
> > too. The thing is that when I bought my new bike the other day the guys at the store said bar
> > ends are out of fashion now, along with straight bars. How stupid is that? People don't use bar
> > ends because they are out of fashion? Well, what about cycling efficiency? Have all the bikers
> > gone nuts or what? I don't even like these riser bars they all have now because they don't help
> > put your body in a more aerodynamic position. The only way I can see riser bars being an
> > advantage is if all you do is downhill or have a bad lower back, even then I don't really see
> > them as an advantage. Riser bars five years ago were for sissies and people over 70. And what's
> > with the stems pointing on an 85 degree angle up? The first thing I did was get the shop to
> > change that to a stem with about 10 degree angle - pronto. And I will be putting on a straight
> > bar and bar ends because it is just a better design for numerous reasons. Riser bars are for
> > fashion whores.
>
> If you like riding over the front axle on your bike. Go for the zero rise way out over the front
> wheel, more likely to join the OTB club. Follow this advice. If you like to be able to get the
> fron wheel up in a hurry. And not steer on an arc. Get a short stem, with risers. Longer stems
> only make up for short TT length. Aerodynamic is a funny term in mountain biking. Most average
> speeds are under 10 mph. Ride some technical trails. Then check your average speed.

Hey TJ, thanks for the repost on dimmy's misinformative lame opinion. Google seems to have grown its
own idiot filter. What dimmy fails to realize is that he is also calling himself a fashion *****
because riser bars were OEM on many bikes and flats were virtually nonexistent before his storied
mountain biking career. This dimmy is obviously a real legend in his own mind. I'd like to see him
try to ride Eagle's on his idea of what a good setup is. Can you say hamburger?

JD

 

[Jimmy]

On 19 Apr 2003 14:44:41 -0700, [email protected] (JD) reckoned:

>There is no such thing as a nice rockshox fork. Nobody needs a shock on their bike, just as nobody
>needed one 100 years ago.
>
>StepBrother JD

I agree. That's another thing I'm taking off my new bike. Shocks are great for off roading only, but
on the road it makes me feel like I'm riding with a flat front tire. Highly inefficient for hill
climbing too. I couldn't find a good moubtain bike with rigid forks though so had no choice. Think
I'll sell the shocks and get a good rigid fork.

 

[Jimmy]

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:40:08 -0500, "TJ" <[email protected]> reckoned:

>If you like riding over the front axle on your bike. Go for the zero rise way out over the front
>wheel, more likely to join the OTB club. Follow this advice. If you like to be able to get the fron
>wheel up in a hurry. And not steer on an arc. Get a short stem, with risers. Longer stems only make
>up for short TT length. Aerodynamic is a funny term in mountain biking. Most average speeds are
>under 10 mph. Ride some technical trails. Then check your average speed.
>
>LMAO.
>
>TJ
>

I use my bike on roads and off, therefore; I want a bike that is both fast/efficient and
comfortable. Call me old fashioned, but riser bars are for pussies.

 

[Jimmy]

On 20 Apr 2003 08:02:16 -0700, [email protected] (JD) reckoned:

>Hey TJ, thanks for the repost on dimmy's misinformative lame opinion. Google seems to have grown
>its own idiot filter. What dimmy fails to realize is that he is also calling himself a fashion
>***** because riser bars were OEM on many bikes and flats were virtually nonexistent before his
>storied mountain biking career. This dimmy is obviously a real legend in his own mind. I'd like to
>see him try to ride Eagle's on his idea of what a good setup is. Can you say hamburger?
>
>JD

Aw..., did I insult your poor taste in bike fashion? I bet you wear those ridiculous baggy cycling
shorts too.

 

[Jimmy]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:01:26 GMT, SuperSlinky <[email protected]> reckoned:

>No, it just depends on what kind of riding you do and personal preference. Both schools of thought
>have their good points and bad points. Maybe your bike dealer didn't choose his words very
>carefully. Out of fashion doesn't have to mean the poseur kind of fashion. It can just mean that
>the general opinion on handlebar design has changed.

OK, I can accept that, but he did say it's out of fashion and people laugh at cyclists with bar ends
and straight bars. What's the advantage of riser bars, besides putting you in a more upright
position which some people may find more comfortable? I use my bike on various road conditions and
look for the best compromise for all conditions so don't find riser bars advantageous in any way.
It's like in the sixties when banana seats and really high riser bars were the rage. looked cool but
highly inefficient. Someone said in another post that a riser bar and short stem takes your weight
off your hands. Well, that just distributes the weight to the seat which makes your ass *really*
sore. Think of the seat as a perch and not a seat because that is how it is meant to be. Putting
weight more forward is preferable to a sore ass and more efficient. Adding bar ends helps greatly in
a hill climb and allows one to change hand positions which helps to alleviate discomfort. As for the
junior set laughing at me,

and all they know is riser bars and forks with shocks. Just because it's new doesn't necessarily
make it better.

 

[Jonathan Bond]

Jimmy wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:01:26 GMT, SuperSlinky <[email protected]> reckoned:
>
>
>
>>No, it just depends on what kind of riding you do and personal preference. Both schools of thought
>>have their good points and bad points. Maybe your bike dealer didn't choose his words very
>>carefully. Out of fashion doesn't have to mean the poseur kind of fashion. It can just mean that
>>the general opinion on handlebar design has changed.
>
>
> OK, I can accept that, but he did say it's out of fashion and people laugh at cyclists with bar
> ends and straight bars. What's the advantage of riser bars, besides putting you in a more upright
> position which some people may find more comfortable? I use my bike on various road conditions and
> look for the best compromise for all conditions so don't find riser bars advantageous in any way.
> It's like in the sixties when banana seats and really high riser bars were the rage. looked cool
> but highly inefficient. Someone said in another post that a riser bar and short stem takes your
> weight off your hands. Well, that just distributes the weight to the seat which makes your ass
> *really* sore. Think of the seat as a perch and not a seat because that is how it is meant to be.
> Putting weight more forward is preferable to a sore ass and more efficient. Adding bar ends helps
> greatly in a hill climb and allows one to change hand positions which helps to alleviate
> discomfort.

Ever consider that maybe your hands wouldn't be so uncomfortable if they had a bit less
weight on 'em?

And having more weight on the front doesn't make you more efficient - if you use the seat as a perch
anyway, or better said, a reference point, you can put more weight behind your pedal strokes. Plus
you're not as streched out, which is more comfortable for your back, which means a more stable core.
Plus, the front end is a lot easier to pop over things (even just small things) to help maintain
momentum, suspension or no.

Same way with road bikes - yes, you're in a more aerodynamic position, but if your bike fits you
really well you can take your hands off the bar and maintain your aero position with little or no
added effort. IE, not that much weight on the hands.

> As for the junior set laughing at me,

> and all they know is riser bars and forks with shocks.

I started rigid/flat, then suspension/flat+barends, then suspension/riser. Don't even try to knock
front suspension - well, ok, try, I'll just laugh really hard Risers aren't for everybody, but
I'm more comfortable and do just fine riding my bike around on the road with them.

> Just because it's new doesn't necessarily make it better.

Totally agree with that. 1.5 standard, integrated headsets, etc. However, just because its not
necessarily better doesn't mean its NOT better.

Jon Bond

 

[Superslinky]

Jimmy said...

> OK, I can accept that, but he did say it's out of fashion and people laugh at cyclists with bar
> ends and straight bars.

I have heard that putting bar ends on riser bars is a major fashion faux pas, but not bar ends on
flat bars. Yet some people do it anyway. I don't use bar ends, but I would assume they would have
many of the same benefits on riser bars that they do on flat bars. Bear in mind though, that I'm
just a recreational rider and not part of the hip crowd.

> What's the advantage of riser bars, besides putting you in a more upright position which some
> people may find more comfortable?

Here are some of the advantages that I know of. Others could probably tell you more than me:

1) Your position is better balanced going downhill

2) Related to #1, since your center of gravity is further back, you have less chance of doing an
endo or going over the bars.

3) It takes pressure off the hands--going back to the original intention of this thread. I would
add, and this is just something that has occurred to me and is not necessarily part of biking
wisdom, that if you have less weight on your hands, then they are more free to do their primary
jobs of steering the bike and operating the levers.

4) You are in a better position for pulling up on the bars to help clear obstacles.

5) Less weight on the front wheel with all the good and bad that goes with it--probably a good
thing on slippery patches where the front wheel is in danger of sliding out.

6) Riser bars let you make subtle adjustments to riding position depending on how you place them.

Disadvantages:

7) Not as good going uphill.

8) Less aerodynamic.

9) As you said, it places more weight to the seat.

10) Less room for all the stuff that must be mounted on the bars: levers, grips, bar ends.

11) Substantially higher weight.

 

[Bb]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:04:01 GMT, SuperSlinky wrote:

> Disadvantages:
>
> 1) Not as good going uphill.

This is why I don't use them. Because of the huge speed difference between climbing and descending,
a rider will spend 4-5 times as much time climbing as descending. Why fit out your bike for the
thing you spend the least time doing?

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

 

[Slacker]

"BB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:04:01 GMT, SuperSlinky wrote:
>
> > Disadvantages:
> >
> > 1) Not as good going uphill.
>
> This is why I don't use them. Because of the huge speed difference between climbing and
> descending, a rider will spend 4-5 times as much time climbing as descending. Why fit out your
> bike for the thing you spend the least time doing?
>
> --
> -BB-

I definitely see your point Blaine, but here's why I use them.

They will make you experience more discomfort uphill, but way more comfy on the DH. Falling while
going uphill rarely causes major damage to myself. Now, falling on a DH, there I can do some
serious damage!

So, like most things, it a compromise on what you would rather have. For me, I'll always lean
towards what's safer on the DH. Besides, like my mom once told me while she dumped a bottle of
rubbing alcohol on my scrapped up knee after a bike accident, "Shut up, pain builds character." I
reminded her of that saying when I hit my rebellious pot smoking years ;^ 0
--
Slacker

 

[B A R R Y B U R]

Jimmy wrote:
>
> I agree. That's another thing I'm taking off my new bike. Shocks are great for off roading only,
> but on the road it makes me feel like I'm riding with a flat front tire. Highly inefficient for
> hill climbing too. I couldn't find a good moubtain bike with rigid forks though so had no choice.
> Think I'll sell the shocks and get a good rigid fork.

Why not just get a road bike if you're riding on the road?

Barry