Getting skinny

Bigbananabike said:

I think we need better definitions of what a Manly Man is....

OK, how's this definition?! :eek: :eek: (see pics)

I'm not quite sure if that's manly, but it sure as hell ain't feminine!!

Doctor Morbius said:

I'm sorry Mike'sbytes, but higher reps with lighter weights is exactly the opposite type of training for functional strength or functional hypertrophy. Not trying to pick on you or anything but just pointing it out.

Check out this PDF on functional hypertrophy by Todd Wilson...
dieselcrew.comfunctionalhypertrophy.pdfOpen ↗

Wilson is a strength and conditioning coach for basketball. He's a regular poster over at my other home www.drsquat.com. The article will help to explain the differences between the different rep schemes.

Thanks for the link, printed it out, it should make interesting reading.

Doctor Morbius said:

OK, how's this definition?! :eek: :eek: (see pics)

I'm not quite sure if that's manly, but it sure as hell ain't feminine!!

Those female BB's are assisted. The female BB's I sometimes train with are non-assisted and have great bodies.

The sport has been ruined, Doc. I remember the good old days of Mike Katz, Franco Columbo, Robby Robinson, Serge Nubret and Larry Scott. Those guys did a bit of dianabol and protein powders and then relied on very hard training to build their physiques. Most of it was damned hard training 4 hours a day in the gym.
Now they're on stuff that shortens their lives drastically just to win a cash prize. Sergio Oliva said not too long ago he didn't have a clue what they were taking these days.
Bodybuilding in its day was a brilliant sport and I thought it was terrific. It also had bodybuilders who had something interesting to say such as the Mentzers and Arnold or Larry Scott.
Today I never even bother to pick up a magazine as they're full of freaks.
I hope cycling doesn't follow in the same direction.

Doctor Morbius said:

OK, how's this definition?! :eek: :eek: (see pics)

I'm not quite sure if that's manly, but it sure as hell ain't feminine!!

Here's the guy my brother used to rave about back in the early eighties as the example of balance. This is Andreas Chaling as I recall.

Bigbananabike said:

I think we need better definitions of what a Manly Man is....is it just looks? 😕 - if so The Incredible Hulk really rates or is it to do with character - aggressive etc or better qualities that that and looks that are healthier in the long run - which means slimmer?

Hey Carrera Still doing weights?

I had a couple of weeks off to give my shoulder a rest and the doctor told me to maintian the strength around the shoulder but not to do anything like boxing. So I started off again this week doing Monday, Thursday and Friday. On Saturday, my legs were wasted (along with the rest of me), so it was going to be interesting how the ride went. What it did do was make me spin more, to put less effort into each resoultion and I went fine, even kept with the fast guys thru the quick section at the end.

Dr Morbis, the article was very interesting. I must be using the wrong termology, my appoligies. What I was trying to say was about making the body as useful as possible for the challenges of day to day living. For example been able to carry 10 bags of cement around to the back of the house and not end up with a sore back.

Cheers Michael

Carrera said:

I sometimes train very hard on the bike. Yesterday was one of those days. In did an enormous climb and stayed standing out of the seat for quite some time. Pulse rate was soaring.
I do quite a lot of hard cycling but I do notice my libido is now very low. If it's not my fondness for coffee and a bit too much alcohol, than it could well be the cycling.

You do not actually train as such, you just do a lot of hard riding. A structured training program would have you looking, feeling and performing better.

This is true. Officially, I took the year off as I had so much work restoring this boat I now own. However, the cycle rides back and forth are pretty hard-going so I try and work a bit of training into it.
It's getting dangerous, though. 2 days ago I was riding back in the dark and suddenly a car was coming at me on my side of the road about 70 mph. The lunatic had overtaken another car on a bend.

Don Shipp said:

You do not actually train as such, you just do a lot of hard riding. A structured training program would have you looking, feeling and performing better.

I wonder if Doctor Morbius saw that documentary on the guy whose bicep exploded. It was abour steroid abuse. They even had Steve Michalik on. These days he warns his students not to take steroids.
Cycling: I did notice I was climbing at 17 mph the other day which wasn't too bad.

mikesbytes said:

Hey Carrera Still doing weights?

I had a couple of weeks off to give my shoulder a rest and the doctor told me to maintian the strength around the shoulder but not to do anything like boxing. So I started off again this week doing Monday, Thursday and Friday. On Saturday, my legs were wasted (along with the rest of me), so it was going to be interesting how the ride went. What it did do was make me spin more, to put less effort into each resoultion and I went fine, even kept with the fast guys thru the quick section at the end.

Dr Morbis, the article was very interesting. I must be using the wrong termology, my appoligies. What I was trying to say was about making the body as useful as possible for the challenges of day to day living. For example been able to carry 10 bags of cement around to the back of the house and not end up with a sore back.

Cheers Michael

Carrera said:

I wonder if Doctor Morbius saw that documentary on the guy whose bicep exploded. It was abour steroid abuse. They even had Steve Michalik on. These days he warns his students not to take steroids.
Cycling: I did notice I was climbing at 17 mph the other day which wasn't too bad.

Ouch! Have you got a link

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson66.htm
One outspoken anti-steroid campaigner is former Mr. America, and inventor of the Intensity or Insanity training system, Steve Michalik.

No stranger to steroid use/abuse, Steve, 57, has suffered greatly in his quest for physical supremacy. Steroids almost killed Steve, but he eventually broke free of their grasp and now lectures on their evilness while promoting steroid-free bodybuilding at every opportunity.

An expert on steroid abuse and one who has been there, Steve talks about the dangers of performance enhancing drug use with a large degree of authority - he would love to see them banned from bodybuilding and truly believes an alternative will be found in the near future. I recently spoke to Steve on the subject of steroid use.

[ Q ] Hi Steve. Give the readers some background on your bodybuilding career and your current age and bodybuilding goals.

A: I started to be interested in bodybuilding when I was eight years old. After being abused by my parents, I was determined to be strong enough and develop the self confidence to live a good life. My family doctor had some old bodybuilding magazines that he let me borrow. I realized that bodybuilding was something I could do by myself without my parent's permission and the outcome depended solely on me.

At 57 I still train hard and love it. I am also an outspoken anti-steroids advocate and currently lecturing as well as doing TV and radio shows on the topic. I also promote natural bodybuilding contests and have my own Mr. America's bodybuilding team who compete all over the country. If anyone is interested, they can contact me at [email hidden].

[ Q ] What are some of the biggest changes you have noticed in bodybuilding since you last competed?

A: Bodybuilding had a greater following in my day, and much more exposure and acceptance with the general public. The physiques were all very unique back then and it made the contest very interesting.
[B]Now, everyone looks the same - big, bloated physiques with no form or symmetry. If you changed heads, you wouldn't know who was who.

[ Q ] You have been vocal on the issue of steroid use. What really qualifies you to talk so passionately on this subject?


A: I almost died from it. Then I met my present wife, and we wanted to have children, but my levels were so low that we had a very difficult time.
Then there was the liver and artery disease, and the loss of my friend Lyle Alzado. I've certainly had some experience with the stuff and know what it really can do first hand.


Lyle Martin Alzado
1949-1992 - He played for the Denver Broncos, Cleveland Browns and the LA Raiders. Cause of Death: Brain cancer brought on by excessive steroid use.


[ Q ] You may have heard the IFBB is considering a complete ban on steroids. What is your view on this stance? Do you feel steroids have any place in bodybuilding?

A: Like everything in life, you must break it down to build it back up. Out of chaos comes order.
At first there would be confusion. Some will desperately complain while others will leave and try to find another venue to compete in. Steroids are fake muscle and degrade bodybuilding. They are a lie. I know. I was part of it.

Bodybuilding would eventually benefit and then grow into a more accepted sport. Now it's just a freak show with anyone outside of bodybuilders not caring. Nobody in the real world knows who's champ.

[ Q ] Many "hardcore" bodybuilding fans would still like to see steroids in bodybuilding as they actually enjoy the freakiness of the physiques created by them. Many feel the removal of steroids will harm the industry. What are your thoughts on this?

A: If you look carefully at who is responding to your question it is those few die hard bodybuilding fans that crave sensationalism and big is better (well yes sometimes but not always). People can not own things they feel the can never have understand the reality of.

mikesbytes said:

Ouch! Have you got a link

I tell my kids that users are looser. Applies to Steriods too.

Edit: the man whos bicep exploded:

In the days when bodybuilding was still a pretty terrific activity (unlike today), I used to travel about to meet the stars. I met Robby Robinson in fact.
I knew this local guy who did bodybuilding without steroids - the only exception being once when he competed in a Mr Universe competition.
Well, I recall this time watching him squat. He was a very strong guy but all he had on the squat bar was about 235 pounds (maybe less). I recall arriving in the gym and there he was on his last legs still squatting. He had counters and spotters by his side and he was up to 50! By that point his nose was bleeding as well.
These days you get these over-bulked hulks doing a mere 6 heavy reps and that's it! No definition either.
It was the same with Arnold in the late sixties. This guy who trained with him from England said Arnold was so fast it killed him - wiped him out. Schwarzennegger was supersetting squats with bench presses and then flyes with leg-curls but it was also very fast.
Ironically the reason why 95 per cent of bodybuilders couldn't keep up with Arnie was due to fitness and not so much strength. When you trained as fast as he did, the whole session was as much cardio as muscle pumping.
Of course, this mustn't be confused with cycling. Schwarzennegger would have been hopeless on a road bike due to all the muscle he was carrying but he was fit compared with the average guy on the street.

mikesbytes said:

I tell my kids that users are looser. Applies to Steriods too.

Edit: the man whos bicep exploded:

Hey Carrera how much can you deadlift? This guy could deadlift what I do with his little finger.

The shoulder specialist told me to go back and do weights to strengthen my shoulder, plus some special exercises. So I've been Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Today I didn't eat properly and now I'm feeling really dead. Probably in part that I picked the gym that was the furtherst from home that I knew the cycle route and hammered it there and back.

I have to be careful as I was diagnosed with a very small hernia. The hernia used to kick at me when I squatted although now I can squat O.K.
Anyway, much depends on your situation. If you're using weights specifically in conjunction with cycling, myself I'd try power cleans, squats, military presses for your injured shoulder and situps. Then throw in some bike sprinting.
For pure bodybuilding, I do know quite a lot. I was probably the strongest bodybuilder all around in this area for quite some time when you combined my squat, bench-press and chins. I knew people who could outsquat me but not outbench me. I knew people who could outbench me but would fall on their ass with similar squat loads. The way I trained was very intense back then.
So, I was balanced out.
What people are missing today is they use too many machines but don't know about dipping bars or you never see people do a proper hack-squat with a barbell. Also a major gripe - people avoid squats and bent rows as they are hard work.

Cycling is tougher for me, though. In cycling I do sometimes get beaten by other riders if they're strong. I tend to fall short if I overtax myself and then I burn out.

mikesbytes said:

Hey Carrera how much can you deadlift? This guy could deadlift what I do with his little finger.

The shoulder specialist told me to go back and do weights to strengthen my shoulder, plus some special exercises. So I've been Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Today I didn't eat properly and now I'm feeling really dead. Probably in part that I picked the gym that was the furtherst from home that I knew the cycle route and hammered it there and back.

I don't use machines much at all. In part because I work in different locations and perfer the consistency of free weigths - don't need to learn new machines. The shoulder exercises includes a reasonable amount of cable pulling, so I'll be into the machines for that.

My problem with deadlift is that I have wimpy hands, the limit I can lift is simply how much my hands can hold.

Since getting a track bike recently, I've been doing sprints on Monday night.

Simple solution. Chalk your hands. Get a couple of regular belts and wrap one of your hands to the bar, round the wrists and around the bar. Get another person to wrap the other hand and then lift.
Bear in mind, deadlifts are a crazy movement and force you to bend at awkward angles to avoid hitting the knees on the way up.

mikesbytes said:

I don't use machines much at all. In part because I work in different locations and perfer the consistency of free weigths - don't need to learn new machines. The shoulder exercises includes a reasonable amount of cable pulling, so I'll be into the machines for that.

My problem with deadlift is that I have wimpy hands, the limit I can lift is simply how much my hands can hold.

Since getting a track bike recently, I've been doing sprints on Monday night.

kmavm said:

What people call "sprinters" in the sport of road cycling would not be considered "sprinters" by any normal exercise physiology type. Yes, professional "sprint specialists" aren't as ridiculously deficient in fast-twitch ability as your average roadie. ...

I think there is a common misconception that endurance training 'destroys' sprint ability. While significant endurance training allows you to recruit more fast twitch fibres into the endurance effort, you don't really lose that much of your ability to produce explosive power.

Robbie would be producing 20+ watts / kg (compare that to a world champion 'pure' sprinter, who may max out at 24 watts / kg).

I know that personally it doesn't hold. I have fast twitch muscles, and while endurance training improves my functional threshold, the explosive strength is still there. I have been doing no strength or plyometric work for many years now, but recently won a couple of cartons of beer in a bet by putting my head into a ceiling 32" above head height. Ten years ago I may have been able to get 4" inches higher than that (but I was also carrying 20 pounds less weight, most of that fat). So really the fast twitch fibres hang about, even if they are not getting used a lot.

Carrera said:

Simple solution. Chalk your hands. Get a couple of regular belts and wrap one of your hands to the bar, round the wrists and around the bar. Get another person to wrap the other hand and then lift.
Bear in mind, deadlifts are a crazy movement and force you to bend at awkward angles to avoid hitting the knees on the way up.

Thanks Carrera, but I don't think I'll go to that much effort. I was thinking more along the lines of making my hands stronger. What about those little straps you can put around your wrists, the ones where you can do it yourself?

Carrera,

Back to your earlier question - you can definitely be a good cyclist and stay big. The strongest cyclist I ride with is around 200 pounds. He also plays water polo which needs you to be big, and has large biceps. He doesn't seem to have any problems keeping the weight on, despite a crazy training load (he sometimes gets up at 4 am to do 4-5 hours before work).

I'd like to get my power meter on him. I'm thinking of hooking him up before a ride next week. He must have a threshold power of close to 400 watts (compare to Floyd, who apparently has an FTP of 420 watts, but is much lighter).

To be really good he would need to slim down. But as you say, it is about compromises.

I'm from Australia but used to live in the States. I was a runner while I was over there, and one thing that struck me was that there were very few good endurance runners. The fit guys weren't willing to lose enough weight to be half decent. Seems to be a strong culture of bigger is better, so you are not alone in worrying about being too skinny. I was told to add a few pounds to my health insurance form, or they would think that I was either a crack addict or anorexic.

Dan