Getting started - Cassette change advice for noob

[lifelesslived17]

Picked up a new to me bike and trying to get started again. Just moved to a new state and the ride in and out of the trail has some hills that are kicking my ****. I am currently running a 10 speed ultegra 12-25 and was debating between using a 11-28 or maybe an 11-32? Just want something thats gonna help me those climbs until I get stronger. What say you?

 

[oldbobcat]

The 11-28 should work. The 11-32 definitely will not work without a MTB rear derailleur or heroic modifications to your Ultegra unit.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

The Ultegra RD-6800-GS long cage rear derailleur is needed to handle a 32T cassette. There is, IIRC, a member on the forum that successfully used the Ultegra standard cage rear derailleur with a 30T or 32T, but it is not recommended.

28T is about the maximum cassette the standard cage will reliably shift.

 

[bartsie]

I find it fascinating that while Contador uses SRAM 32t and Wiggins even had a MTB cassette fitted to work with his Di2 (http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2012/07/16/tour-tech-wiggos-di2-derailleur-hack/), beginners are offered those tiny cogs!

My bike came with SRAM 50/34, 11-32 and while I don't use the 34:32 every day (anymore), it's nice to have. There are lots of 10% climbs around Boston.

 

[oldbobcat]

Wiggins and Contador are using 53-39 chainrings for most of their racing. Some pros will swap the 39 for a 44 for the flatter classics.

Race gearing has changed over the decades. Until the advent of 10- and 11-speed cassettes, gearing has always been about compromising between manageable steps and sufficient low end to get over the passes. Now, in training camp pro riders watch race videos and comment on how over-geared the old pros were for climbing, and under-geared for the descents.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

The Ultegra RD-6800-GS long cage rear derailleur is needed to handle a 32T cassette. There is, IIRC, a member on the forum that successfully used the Ultegra standard cage rear derailleur with a 30T or 32T, but it is not recommended.

Yeah, but are 11-speed derailleurs compatible with 10-speed shifters? I believe not, but I might be wrong. Regardless, a new 9-speed Alivio rear derailleur will work fine with any 9- or 10-speed mechanical Shimano road rig, and cheaply.

The standard technique for pushing any 8-, 9-, or 10-speed Shimano road derailleur to 30t is to flip the b-screw and screw it in just a few threads. Putting the head on the wrong end ensures that the end still hits the flat on the derailleur hanger when it's minimally inserted, which is what you need to do to make the jockey wheel clear the big cogs. I don't recommend it either. It isn't guaranteed to work and it eventually damages the b-scrrew.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by lifelesslived17 .

Picked up a new to me bike and trying to get started again. Just moved to a new state and the ride in and out of the trail has some hills that are kicking my ****. I am currently running a 10 speed ultegra 12-25 and was debating between using a 11-28 or maybe an 11-32? Just want something thats gonna help me those climbs until I get stronger. What say you?

Having a 28t largest Cog on your Cassette may be adequate ...

FYI. You can buy (through eBay) a single, 27t or 29t (?) MICHE Cog whch can be re-stacked onto your current Cassette for about $10 [obviously, this is the least expensive option which you may want to investigate before opting for a different Cassette OR possibly a COMPACT crankset OR both!?!] ... possibly, your LBS can order one for you but they will probably charge more ...

The reason for the recommended, alternate rear derailleurs which were suggested by oldbobcat & CAMPYBOB is to accommodate the longer chain which you will typically use with an 11-32 Cassette ...

• whether you need a new chain if you change to an 11-32 Cassette from a 12-25 Cassette is up to you, BTW, but 'I' would want a longer chain which would allow the shouldn't-be-used big-big combination if the current chain is not long enough to accommodate THAT verboten combination I temporarily set up one of my bikes with a 12-34 without changing the chain which had previously been set up for a 12-25 ... NOT RECOMMENEDED

[*] if you simply restack your Cassette, you will need to decide which of the smaller Cogs you feel you can live without (e.g., 15t?)
[*] the 4t gap between 25t & 29t is easily handled by the derailleur AND if it balks it is due to the limitation of Shimano shifters handling downshifting when under a load

• the oft described kluge is to momentarily accelerate & then back off to momentarily unload the tension on the chain to overcome the "dwell" that was intentionally engineered (!!!) in Shimano's shifter design ... Campagnolo shifters are not handicapped by the design flaw when 'I' am looking for my bailout COG then 'I' usually don't have the energy for that momentary acceleration and/or I am apparently not coordinated enough to successfully execute the kluge on a consistent basis

[*] SRAM shifters are also not handicapped by the design flaw

BEFORE you opt for an 11-32 Cassette you may want to consider a Compact (50/34) Crankset because although it may be counter-intuitive, it may be less expensive to simply change the crankset & BB (if necessary) rather than the Cassette + chain + rear derailleur ...

• if you are a wise shopper, then you can get a Compact FSA MegaExo crank + BB cups (if necessary) for between $50 & $80 on eBay ... Hollowtech II & MegaExo BB cups are interchangeable

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"Yeah, but are 11-speed derailleurs compatible with 10-speed shifters?"
"Basically it’s the same as Shimano 10 but the freehub body has been lengthened by 1.85mm to accommodate the extra cog."
At least that's what I've heard from a couple of folks. Also, I would imagine the entire line of 10-speed NOS touring derailleurs will be found at bargain prices as 11-speed spreads down the lineup.

 

[Tnark]

Not sure about Shimano 11 speed - but all Shimano rear derailleurs designed for indexed shifting are compatible with 7,8,9,or 10 speed systems - with the exception of Pre-9 speed Dura Ace which had different cable pull characteristics. Yes you can succesfully shift 10 speed on an old 7 speed indexed SIS derailleur from the '90s, its the shifters that vary, not the derailleur. There's a comprehensive write-up by Sheldon Brown on this matter. Can anybody chime-in re 11 speed systems?

 

[oldbobcat]

According to Shimano's dealer training, 9000 shifters are not compatible with 10-speed derailleurs. It would follow that 10-speed shifters are not compatible with 9000 derailleurs.

Interpret this any way you find convenient.

 

[Clancy]

That may be true. a 9-19 is not a reason to switch to a deraileur system. the modification is too drastic. there is no way that will work.

changing a cassette is a simple way to change your gears on your bike.
did you know that a 9 speed vs an 8 speed chain is the difference in width between the two. a nine speed needs a narrower chain. fact

 

[oldbobcat]

You know, the least expensive most idiot-proof solution to this is to simply buy a Shimano or SRAM 10-speed MTB cassette, a 9-speed Shimano MTB rear derailleur (Deore or new Alivio), a new shift cable, and a new (uncut) chain. It's not the lightest and it's not cutting edge and it's not going to impress anyone at the coffee shop, but riders who need lower gearing for hills have been doing it successfully for seven or eight years. We can speculate all day about 6800 and 9000, but that's not moving forward with the plan. Or, HTFU a little bit and use an 11-27 or 11-28 road cassette (might need the longer chain, too) with the existing derailleur.

And we can talk about new cranks and bottom brackets and Campagnolo levers, but that does not address the problem as stated in the original post.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Clancy .

no the easiest solution is to get a weasel and train it to cook and clean. this frees up time to be able to work on your bike more often. and to be able to read about bike maintenance more.

another good thing to do is to eat canary eggs as canary eggs have more protein than chicken eggs.

I'll presume this bit of lip was not directed at me or the original poster.